RE: Renault Clio R.S.16 - full story

[nickfrog]

rb5er said:

The only thing that is irrational is this being worth £40k. Do you honestly think its worth that?

Let me guess what you drive.......

Do you think this is worth twice what your megane cost?? Your megane is just half of this car is it?

What I drive is irrelevant. I change cars every 12 months on average and I don't care about the brand/badge. You must be judging me by your own standards. It is worth precisely what people will pay for them.
I'll happily pay more for a smaller / lighter / 2wd car than for a bigger / heavier / 4wd car. We're all different and it's probably my motorsport background.
FWIW, I saw the car in action this week at Monaco and it seems incredibly well sorted for a road car, at least in Kev's hands.
The rumour is it won't make production, sadly.

[TheLuke]

rb5er said:

SidewaysSi said:

rb5er said:

At £20k maybe. At £40k no chance.

They really ruined the looks of the clio after the 197/200.

I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?

Because the FRS is a class above which is fully equipped with all the toys, newfangled awd and 350bhp.

What new r&d technology has this got? A bigger off the shelf engine,suspension, wheels and bodykit and less seats. All other really hot hatches have that and more (except they let you keep the seats).

So OK, maybe it should be £25k or if its a very very limited edition £30k but certainly not £40k.

Do you really think its worth £40k????!!!????

Edited by rb5er on Saturday 28th May 11:27

I think you'll eat your words when they send this round the 'ring.

[tonyb1968]

SidewaysSi said:

nickfrog said:

SidewaysSi said:

I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?

Remember PH has essentially become a consumer forum, a car's mumsnet if you like, not a driving enthusiast's forum. Always a good reason not to buy a car and the permanent need to criticise everything, however irrational (or non-existent) the thought process is.

It's the usual PH bullst.

It's French so should be £10k. It's smaller than a fking Focus so has to be cheaper. It's a Renault so it will break down etc.

Renault have a better hot hatch reputation than anyone. Full stop. Better than Ford. Better than VW and better than Peugeot.

So if they charge a premium, good luck to them. They are the Porsche RS of the hot hatch world.

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

[The Vambo]

tonyb1968 said:

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

[Jimmy Recard]

Composite Guru said:

£40k. No thanks. More ludicrous price than a Civic Type R.

I'd rather spend £40k on a proper marque.

A proper marques? In what way is Renault unbranded?

[Jimmy Recard]

tonyb1968 said:

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

You think Volkswagen makes a good hot hatchback compared to Renault?

[SidewaysSi]

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

nickfrog said:

SidewaysSi said:

I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?

Remember PH has essentially become a consumer forum, a car's mumsnet if you like, not a driving enthusiast's forum. Always a good reason not to buy a car and the permanent need to criticise everything, however irrational (or non-existent) the thought process is.

It's the usual PH bullst.

It's French so should be £10k. It's smaller than a fking Focus so has to be cheaper. It's a Renault so it will break down etc.

Renault have a better hot hatch reputation than anyone. Full stop. Better than Ford. Better than VW and better than Peugeot.

So if they charge a premium, good luck to them. They are the Porsche RS of the hot hatch world.

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

I genuinely don't get this argument at all. Volume sold has sod all to do with how good a car is - most people aren't really after a hardcore hatch like Renault produce and prefer their nice VW plastics. Fact is that if you really love driving, Renault cars are consistently better than everything else and gave been for many many years.

In comparison VWs are run of the mill and really quite dull. Renault have produced amongst others the:

5 Turbo and Turbo 2
Clio 16v and Williams
R26R
Clio Trophy
Megane Trophy R
Clio V6

All of which are pretty bloody stonking and far far superior than much, if not all, of the competition. In my eyes, Renault are unsurpassed at creating brilliant hot hatches.

Is this car worth £40k? If it is genuinely bespoke, built in limited numbers and is the clear class leader in terms of driving dynamics (really very possible based on past performance), then absolutely.

Also bear in mind the recent Trophy R was pretty much a £40k car and sold out instantly.

[DS197]

tonyb1968 said:

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

I'll have what he's smoking

[tonyb1968]

SidewaysSi said:

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

nickfrog said:

SidewaysSi said:

I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?

Remember PH has essentially become a consumer forum, a car's mumsnet if you like, not a driving enthusiast's forum. Always a good reason not to buy a car and the permanent need to criticise everything, however irrational (or non-existent) the thought process is.

It's the usual PH bullst.

It's French so should be £10k. It's smaller than a fking Focus so has to be cheaper. It's a Renault so it will break down etc.

Renault have a better hot hatch reputation than anyone. Full stop. Better than Ford. Better than VW and better than Peugeot.

So if they charge a premium, good luck to them. They are the Porsche RS of the hot hatch world.

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

I genuinely don't get this argument at all. Volume sold has sod all to do with how good a car is - most people aren't really after a hardcore hatch like Renault produce and prefer their nice VW plastics. Fact is that if you really love driving, Renault cars are consistently better than everything else and gave been for many many years.

In comparison VWs are run of the mill and really quite dull. Renault have produced amongst others the:

5 Turbo and Turbo 2
Clio 16v and Williams
R26R
Clio Trophy
Megane Trophy R
Clio V6

All of which are pretty bloody stonking and far far superior than much, if not all, of the competition. In my eyes, Renault are unsurpassed at creating brilliant hot hatches.

Is this car worth £40k? If it is genuinely bespoke, built in limited numbers and is the clear class leader in terms of driving dynamics (really very possible based on past performance), then absolutely.

Also bear in mind the recent Trophy R was pretty much a £40k car and sold out instantly.

Volume as a lot to do with it, the lastest Renaultsport Clio really isnt a good car compared to the competition, no one wants a sluggish paddle shift gearbox to start with, they should have made it manual.
At the moment the best car in class is the Ford Fiesta ST with the 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport a very close second, so cannot see the argument that its a class leader and far superior to the competition as its not.

I have already said that "IF" they produce this car then it needs to follow in the steps of the Megane RS and not the Clio, and 40k is a lot, it should hold its value as a limited edition but it has to be seen to be far superior to the Renaultsport Clio that is out now.

As for the Trophy R, yes it sold out instantly, Subaru did the same for the P1 back in 2000, made 500, sold all very quickly, made 500 more, took a year to shift them, its called supply and demand, keep the supply low and the demand will be high, make a high supply and you may well end up losing out.

[Hoink]

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

nickfrog said:

SidewaysSi said:

I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?

Remember PH has essentially become a consumer forum, a car's mumsnet if you like, not a driving enthusiast's forum. Always a good reason not to buy a car and the permanent need to criticise everything, however irrational (or non-existent) the thought process is.

It's the usual PH bullst.

It's French so should be £10k. It's smaller than a fking Focus so has to be cheaper. It's a Renault so it will break down etc.

Renault have a better hot hatch reputation than anyone. Full stop. Better than Ford. Better than VW and better than Peugeot.

So if they charge a premium, good luck to them. They are the Porsche RS of the hot hatch world.

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

I genuinely don't get this argument at all. Volume sold has sod all to do with how good a car is - most people aren't really after a hardcore hatch like Renault produce and prefer their nice VW plastics. Fact is that if you really love driving, Renault cars are consistently better than everything else and gave been for many many years.

In comparison VWs are run of the mill and really quite dull. Renault have produced amongst others the:

5 Turbo and Turbo 2
Clio 16v and Williams
R26R
Clio Trophy
Megane Trophy R
Clio V6

All of which are pretty bloody stonking and far far superior than much, if not all, of the competition. In my eyes, Renault are unsurpassed at creating brilliant hot hatches.

Is this car worth £40k? If it is genuinely bespoke, built in limited numbers and is the clear class leader in terms of driving dynamics (really very possible based on past performance), then absolutely.

Also bear in mind the recent Trophy R was pretty much a £40k car and sold out instantly.

Volume as a lot to do with it, the lastest Renaultsport Clio really isnt a good car compared to the competition, no one wants a sluggish paddle shift gearbox to start with, they should have made it manual.
At the moment the best car in class is the Ford Fiesta ST with the 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport a very close second, so cannot see the argument that its a class leader and far superior to the competition as its not.

I have already said that "IF" they produce this car then it needs to follow in the steps of the Megane RS and not the Clio, and 40k is a lot, it should hold its value as a limited edition but it has to be seen to be far superior to the Renaultsport Clio that is out now.

As for the Trophy R, yes it sold out instantly, Subaru did the same for the P1 back in 2000, made 500, sold all very quickly, made 500 more, took a year to shift them, its called supply and demand, keep the supply low and the demand will be high, make a high supply and you may well end up losing out.

Have you driven the Clio Trophy or is this from an Internet review? It is far from sluggish.

I took one for a test drive and was impressed enough to buy one...previous cars including the 172 Cup, 182 Cup and 200 Cup so I had something to compare it to.

[tonyb1968]

Hoink said:

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

nickfrog said:

SidewaysSi said:

I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?

Remember PH has essentially become a consumer forum, a car's mumsnet if you like, not a driving enthusiast's forum. Always a good reason not to buy a car and the permanent need to criticise everything, however irrational (or non-existent) the thought process is.

It's the usual PH bullst.

It's French so should be £10k. It's smaller than a fking Focus so has to be cheaper. It's a Renault so it will break down etc.

Renault have a better hot hatch reputation than anyone. Full stop. Better than Ford. Better than VW and better than Peugeot.

So if they charge a premium, good luck to them. They are the Porsche RS of the hot hatch world.

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

I genuinely don't get this argument at all. Volume sold has sod all to do with how good a car is - most people aren't really after a hardcore hatch like Renault produce and prefer their nice VW plastics. Fact is that if you really love driving, Renault cars are consistently better than everything else and gave been for many many years.

In comparison VWs are run of the mill and really quite dull. Renault have produced amongst others the:

5 Turbo and Turbo 2
Clio 16v and Williams
R26R
Clio Trophy
Megane Trophy R
Clio V6

All of which are pretty bloody stonking and far far superior than much, if not all, of the competition. In my eyes, Renault are unsurpassed at creating brilliant hot hatches.

Is this car worth £40k? If it is genuinely bespoke, built in limited numbers and is the clear class leader in terms of driving dynamics (really very possible based on past performance), then absolutely.

Also bear in mind the recent Trophy R was pretty much a £40k car and sold out instantly.

Volume as a lot to do with it, the lastest Renaultsport Clio really isnt a good car compared to the competition, no one wants a sluggish paddle shift gearbox to start with, they should have made it manual.
At the moment the best car in class is the Ford Fiesta ST with the 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport a very close second, so cannot see the argument that its a class leader and far superior to the competition as its not.

I have already said that "IF" they produce this car then it needs to follow in the steps of the Megane RS and not the Clio, and 40k is a lot, it should hold its value as a limited edition but it has to be seen to be far superior to the Renaultsport Clio that is out now.

As for the Trophy R, yes it sold out instantly, Subaru did the same for the P1 back in 2000, made 500, sold all very quickly, made 500 more, took a year to shift them, its called supply and demand, keep the supply low and the demand will be high, make a high supply and you may well end up losing out.

Have you driven the Clio Trophy or is this from an Internet review? It is far from sluggish.

I took one for a test drive and was impressed enough to buy one...previous cars including the 172 Cup, 182 Cup and 200 Cup so I had something to compare it to.

Pretty much all the reviews pull up the gearbox as being the weak point on the Clio, plus its too small for me so no point going for one, but what else did you test before you went for the Clio Trophy or did you just go off the back of comparing previous Clio's?

[loose cannon]

i could be tempted by this if it's a go, what a shame the original car was not like it from the start,
Having not got bored of my Megane rs yet after 6 years of reliable giant slaying, this could be the one
Get it built renaultsport

[Hoink]

tonyb1968 said:

Hoink said:

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

tonyb1968 said:

SidewaysSi said:

nickfrog said:

SidewaysSi said:

I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?

Remember PH has essentially become a consumer forum, a car's mumsnet if you like, not a driving enthusiast's forum. Always a good reason not to buy a car and the permanent need to criticise everything, however irrational (or non-existent) the thought process is.

It's the usual PH bullst.

It's French so should be £10k. It's smaller than a fking Focus so has to be cheaper. It's a Renault so it will break down etc.

Renault have a better hot hatch reputation than anyone. Full stop. Better than Ford. Better than VW and better than Peugeot.

So if they charge a premium, good luck to them. They are the Porsche RS of the hot hatch world.

I dont know where you get the "Renault have a better reputation for hot hatches" from?
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.

Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.

Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.

I genuinely don't get this argument at all. Volume sold has sod all to do with how good a car is - most people aren't really after a hardcore hatch like Renault produce and prefer their nice VW plastics. Fact is that if you really love driving, Renault cars are consistently better than everything else and gave been for many many years.

In comparison VWs are run of the mill and really quite dull. Renault have produced amongst others the:

5 Turbo and Turbo 2
Clio 16v and Williams
R26R
Clio Trophy
Megane Trophy R
Clio V6

All of which are pretty bloody stonking and far far superior than much, if not all, of the competition. In my eyes, Renault are unsurpassed at creating brilliant hot hatches.

Is this car worth £40k? If it is genuinely bespoke, built in limited numbers and is the clear class leader in terms of driving dynamics (really very possible based on past performance), then absolutely.

Also bear in mind the recent Trophy R was pretty much a £40k car and sold out instantly.

Volume as a lot to do with it, the lastest Renaultsport Clio really isnt a good car compared to the competition, no one wants a sluggish paddle shift gearbox to start with, they should have made it manual.
At the moment the best car in class is the Ford Fiesta ST with the 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport a very close second, so cannot see the argument that its a class leader and far superior to the competition as its not.

I have already said that "IF" they produce this car then it needs to follow in the steps of the Megane RS and not the Clio, and 40k is a lot, it should hold its value as a limited edition but it has to be seen to be far superior to the Renaultsport Clio that is out now.

As for the Trophy R, yes it sold out instantly, Subaru did the same for the P1 back in 2000, made 500, sold all very quickly, made 500 more, took a year to shift them, its called supply and demand, keep the supply low and the demand will be high, make a high supply and you may well end up losing out.

Have you driven the Clio Trophy or is this from an Internet review? It is far from sluggish.

I took one for a test drive and was impressed enough to buy one...previous cars including the 172 Cup, 182 Cup and 200 Cup so I had something to compare it to.

Pretty much all the reviews pull up the gearbox as being the weak point on the Clio, plus its too small for me so no point going for one, but what else did you test before you went for the Clio Trophy or did you just go off the back of comparing previous Clio's?

Focus ST, Polo GTI and Golf GTI (preferred but out of budget).

I find its best to drive yourself before criticising...

[towelie]

Hoink said:

Have you driven the Clio Trophy or is this from an Internet review? It is far from sluggish.

I took one for a test drive and was impressed enough to buy one...previous cars including the 172 Cup, 182 Cup and 200 Cup so I had something to compare it to.

You should have test driven a fiesta st, much better car in every way plus you save at least 5 grand.

(previously owned clio 3 200 and test driven a clio trophy, own a fiesta st and mx5s)

[simonphillip]

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_project_car.asp?id...


nothing new really..

[tonyb1968]

Hoink said:

Focus ST, Polo GTI and Golf GTI (preferred but out of budget).

I find its best to drive yourself before criticising...

So you drove the cars that were not the direct competitors to the Clio? ok......

[SidewaysSi]

tonyb1968 said:

Hoink said:

Focus ST, Polo GTI and Golf GTI (preferred but out of budget).

I find its best to drive yourself before criticising...

So you drove the cars that were not the direct competitors to the Clio? ok......

The current Clio may not be as good as previous iterations, however given Renault's success in the past, I think it would be short sighted to write this off based on the current car. If you also note recent model developments, RS tend to always save the best till last with something truly spectacular at the end of the model's life.

Renault has had far more hits than misses. And far more than the competition. Ford, VWs etc tend to be far less focused cars.

If the Clio is 100kg less than a Trophy R, it would be around 300Kg less than a Focus RS. Which quite frankly is massive and makes an extraordinary difference as soon as the wheels are turning.

You seem to be hooked on the current Clio and seem oblivious to what they have created in their past, both recent and not so recent.

As for sales volumes, many people drive diesel Audis. That doesn't automatically make them any good.

Edited by SidewaysSi on Saturday 28th May 23:20

Edited by SidewaysSi on Saturday 28th May 23:25

[C.A.R.]

Am I the only one thinking the rear bench delete was probably only in the test mule because, y'know, it's a test mule?!

[tonyb1968]

SidewaysSi said:

tonyb1968 said:

Hoink said:

Focus ST, Polo GTI and Golf GTI (preferred but out of budget).

I find its best to drive yourself before criticising...

So you drove the cars that were not the direct competitors to the Clio? ok......

The current Clio may not be as good as previous iterations, however given Renault's success in the past, I think it would be short sighted to write this off based on the current car. If you also note recent model developments, RS tend to always save the best till last with something truly spectacular at the end of the model's life.

Renault has had far more hits than misses. And far more than the competition. Ford, VWs etc tend to be far less focused cars.

If the Clio is 100kg less than a Trophy R, it would be around 300Kg less than a Focus RS. Which quite frankly is massive and makes an extraordinary difference as soon as the wheels are turning.

You seem to be hooked on the current Clio and seem oblivious to what they have created in their past, both recent and not so recent.

As for sales volumes, many people drive diesel Audis. That doesn't automatically make them any good.

Edited by SidewaysSi on Saturday 28th May 23:25

Oh trust me, I was around at the time of the mk1 clio 16v, the clio williams etc, I had a brand new R19 16V in Sports blue (phase 2) so use to sports renaults.
Everyone loved the Clio Williams, well until they announced the Clio Williams II, then all the original owners were seriously miffed with Renault.

At the time the Clio 16v was competing with the 205GTI, which still had the top spot, once they were phased out in 1993, it gave Renault the market as a sporty hatch, especially once they face lifted it.
Peugeot made the 306 S16, wasn't really a direct competitor to the Clio, once replaced by the 306 GTI-6, this became "THE" hot hatch to own at the time. When this went out of production, you had a lot of 306 GTI owners look at the Clio 172 as its successor, probably because the 206 came out and the standard GTI was a pile of poo, even the 180 sucked, great engine, horrid car.
Renault made money off the Peugeot owners that had nothing to go to since the 306 GTI/Rallye ended production in 2001.

This is really when the Clio became more popular, but still its sale figures are not as good as cars before it, and yes, figures do mean something, if you are talking performance cars and the BEST performance car, then it should sell in large quantities, it use to in the 80's, well over 50,000 205 GTI's were sold in the UK between 1984-1993, you probably have less than 10,000 Performance clio's since their launch to date.

[Hoink]

tonyb1968 said:

Hoink said:

Focus ST, Polo GTI and Golf GTI (preferred but out of budget).

I find its best to drive yourself before criticising...

So you drove the cars that were not the direct competitors to the Clio? ok......

I needed 5 doors...