RE: Renault Clio R.S.16 - full story
Discussion
towelie said:
Hoink said:
Have you driven the Clio Trophy or is this from an Internet review? It is far from sluggish.
I took one for a test drive and was impressed enough to buy one...previous cars including the 172 Cup, 182 Cup and 200 Cup so I had something to compare it to.
You should have test driven a fiesta st, much better car in every way plus you save at least 5 grand.I took one for a test drive and was impressed enough to buy one...previous cars including the 172 Cup, 182 Cup and 200 Cup so I had something to compare it to.
(previously owned clio 3 200 and test driven a clio trophy, own a fiesta st and mx5s)
tonyb1968 said:
This is really when the Clio became more popular, but still its sale figures are not as good as cars before it, and yes, figures do mean something, if you are talking performance cars and the BEST performance car, then it should sell in large quantities, it use to in the 80's, well over 50,000 205 GTI's were sold in the UK between 1984-1993, you probably have less than 10,000 Performance clio's since their launch to date.
Depends how you define "best". Best all-rounder is very different to most fun.The best RS Clios are handicapped as daily drivers by their focus on being fun to drive quickly. When Renault try to nudge into the mainstream to do something about that you end up with the 197 or the 200T. They then get panned by the motoring press as not being as much fun as what went before, they struggle to sell them, so they iterate and the next car is more "hardcore" and they get back into their "for people who love fun cars" niche.
tonyb1968 said:
SidewaysSi said:
tonyb1968 said:
Hoink said:
Focus ST, Polo GTI and Golf GTI (preferred but out of budget).
I find its best to drive yourself before criticising...
So you drove the cars that were not the direct competitors to the Clio? ok......I find its best to drive yourself before criticising...
Renault has had far more hits than misses. And far more than the competition. Ford, VWs etc tend to be far less focused cars.
If the Clio is 100kg less than a Trophy R, it would be around 300Kg less than a Focus RS. Which quite frankly is massive and makes an extraordinary difference as soon as the wheels are turning.
You seem to be hooked on the current Clio and seem oblivious to what they have created in their past, both recent and not so recent.
As for sales volumes, many people drive diesel Audis. That doesn't automatically make them any good.
Edited by SidewaysSi on Saturday 28th May 23:25
Everyone loved the Clio Williams, well until they announced the Clio Williams II, then all the original owners were seriously miffed with Renault.
At the time the Clio 16v was competing with the 205GTI, which still had the top spot, once they were phased out in 1993, it gave Renault the market as a sporty hatch, especially once they face lifted it.
Peugeot made the 306 S16, wasn't really a direct competitor to the Clio, once replaced by the 306 GTI-6, this became "THE" hot hatch to own at the time. When this went out of production, you had a lot of 306 GTI owners look at the Clio 172 as its successor, probably because the 206 came out and the standard GTI was a pile of poo, even the 180 sucked, great engine, horrid car.
Renault made money off the Peugeot owners that had nothing to go to since the 306 GTI/Rallye ended production in 2001.
This is really when the Clio became more popular, but still its sale figures are not as good as cars before it, and yes, figures do mean something, if you are talking performance cars and the BEST performance car, then it should sell in large quantities, it use to in the 80's, well over 50,000 205 GTI's were sold in the UK between 1984-1993, you probably have less than 10,000 Performance clio's since their launch to date.
The Golf which many people use as a benchmark was also pretty poor in those days. Most people really don't want a noisy, small 3 door French hatch when they can have a German with a nice dash.
Other than the 106, 306 and 205, Peugeot don't really have a brilliant back catalogue.
Anyway, we digress. I love what Renault do and has done and that is excepting Alpine over the years. A truly brilliant marque and if this car wipes the floor with its rivals then it's worth every penny of £40k.
Hoink said:
The ST was not on the list as I need 5 doors for a child seat.
Mistake that, I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old and it's just fine (although I only take them in the ST at the weekend). Having said that, I've also driven the clio 200 turbo and I don't think it's as bad as people make out, in automatic mode for the every day I thought it was decent, it just wasn't responsive enough in manual mode. I've had a few hot Renaults (couple of 182s, a 200 and a 250 cup megane), the Fiesta ST is basically my first 182 but 10 years newer (and I adored my first 182) so I think it's cracking. Having said that, if the clio R.S. 16 makes production (even in a limited run) I'd be tempted. Really really tempted. I can't see how it won't be tremendous. Even at 40k. Even more so if it has back seats! So long as it is a bona-fide limited run I doubt there will be a lot of depreciation either (I almost bought an R26R when it was in the showrooms new could have got it for 20k!).
simonphillip said:
The guy who looks after my Megane was the development tech there in the past, he did something like 14 Megane engine into 197/200 clio conversions whilst working for K-Tech and has done another 7 since leaving to set up on his own (Tech-1 Performance). Given that there are others out there also doing this conversion it adds up to a surprising number of these "hybrids" out in the wild. I reckon its just about possible to do for about £10K before tuning the bits from either car, assuming the work isn't all done by a pro garage and given that 197 and Megane 225 donors can be found really cheap these days. Certainly has me tempted but I love my Megane R26 to bits at the moment after spending a lot on her refreshing shocks, brakes and engine mounts, really is a nice daily driver for cross country blasts.There are a fair few "home brew" cars out there too. The actual engine swap isn't that hard to replicate for a competent mechanic now it's all been done and documented.
It's not just about the engine though, Renault have done a proper job with the rest of the car too from the look of it.
Even if it is all just to generate PR it will have been worth it for them, it's getting a huge amount of coverage.
It's not just about the engine though, Renault have done a proper job with the rest of the car too from the look of it.
Even if it is all just to generate PR it will have been worth it for them, it's getting a huge amount of coverage.
j8bbk said:
If you want something this small and really fast the Audi S1 is the way to go.. Quicker and not French!
Hmmm... Really!!! Because speed is everything eh....From Autocar's review but it could be from any review of the S1 or most fast Audis....
"The Audi S1 is an easy car to like but a rather harder one to recommend. At least with the A1 quattro, buyers knew that they were getting a limited-edition collector’s piece.
Here, it’s harder to escape the feeling that although there have been sophisticated engineering alterations and deep changes to the A1’s underpinnings, you’re buying a moderately powerful small hatchback that offers fewer thrills than you can get elsewhere."
No not if want something small and go really fast the S1 will deliever. I've had fast Audis...
If I wanted to go fast, feel involved, in a responsive car and have fun my money would be on the Renault... All day long.
gashead1105 said:
Hoink said:
The ST was not on the list as I need 5 doors for a child seat.
Mistake that, I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old and it's just fine (although I only take them in the ST at the weekend). Having said that, I've also driven the clio 200 turbo and I don't think it's as bad as people make out, in automatic mode for the every day I thought it was decent, it just wasn't responsive enough in manual mode. I've had a few hot Renaults (couple of 182s, a 200 and a 250 cup megane), the Fiesta ST is basically my first 182 but 10 years newer (and I adored my first 182) so I think it's cracking. Having said that, if the clio R.S. 16 makes production (even in a limited run) I'd be tempted. Really really tempted. I can't see how it won't be tremendous. Even at 40k. Even more so if it has back seats! So long as it is a bona-fide limited run I doubt there will be a lot of depreciation either (I almost bought an R26R when it was in the showrooms new could have got it for 20k!).
The Vambo said:
tonyb1968 said:
if you are talking performance cars and the BEST performance car, then it should sell in large quantities,
Just no.Peugeot 208 GTI, rated higher than the latest RenaultSport Clio (because people dont like auto boxes on performance cars).
Released 2013, sold around 3000 units in the UK.
Ford Fiesta ST, pretty much THE best in class, released 2013, sold 11,000+ units.
Latest Renaulsport Clio, released around 2013, sold 1000 units to date.
I think the figures actually speak for themselves, you can be a fanboy all you like but sometimes you have to sit back and say "yup, its not the best they have produced and its not the class leader".
I have been there, love my french cars (just look at my car history, damn ive owned 4 Renaults, 12 or is 13 Peugeots) and even I know what car is the best, some will buy the car because its marque x and be brand loyal, me, moved from Renault to Peugeot, back to Renault, back to Peugeot then off to Subaru, now back with Peugeot with the odd ford and vauxhall thrown in in the middle.
SidewaysSi said:
leonintegra36 said:
What is the point of displaying old technology with the new Megane due for release soon? This or a vastly superior cheaper Focus RS hmm??? Never liked the fussy looks of the latest Clio and paddle only shift. Be better keeping the turbo 1.6 remapped, stripping interior, ditching paddleshift, flaring the arches and selling for 15k.
What are you on about? Vastly superior Focus? I don't think you have driven this Clio have you?And what has the level of tech got to do with anything? [/quote
This clio is too expensive, deriving technology from the Megane cup. Will you expect the new Megane to be 40k ? Do you really want to bet it will beat a focus rs in a group test?
tonyb1968 said:
SidewaysSi said:
nickfrog said:
SidewaysSi said:
I don't get this. Why should it be £20k when something like a FFRS is £30k?
Remember PH has essentially become a consumer forum, a car's mumsnet if you like, not a driving enthusiast's forum. Always a good reason not to buy a car and the permanent need to criticise everything, however irrational (or non-existent) the thought process is.
t.It's French so should be £10k. It's smaller than a f
king Focus so has to be cheaper. It's a Renault so it will break down etc.Renault have a better hot hatch reputation than anyone. Full stop. Better than Ford. Better than VW and better than Peugeot.
So if they charge a premium, good luck to them. They are the Porsche RS of the hot hatch world.
Compared to what VW still do and what Peugeot have done, they are like the new boys, the latest Renaultsport Clio is a bit of a flop, the Megane is holding them up reputation wise in the hot hatch world, and they dont sell anywhere near the volume VW do with their Golf GTI's.
The 172's, 182 and 197's including the cup versions have not sold in massive quantities, again the likes of VW and their Golf GTI have sold 10's of thousands compared to what Renault have sold in its Renaultsport range.
Renaultsport is quite niche compared to the competition, Renault itself hasnt produced a car thats so popular to the likes of the 5 GT Turbo, since the 5 GT Turbo, and that pushed out figures comparable in the UK to the Peugeot 309 GTI, which wasnt as popular as the 205GTI and that sold stupid amounts volume wise.
Renault have a long way to go before they have "the best" reputation for hot hatches.
Simply selling big numbers doesn't make a car the best. The Toyota Corolla was forever the best selling car in the world but now one here is going to claim it is the best any type of car.
More Focus ST's & Golf R's do get sold but it doesn't make it a better car than the Megan. As a hot hatch the Megan generally wins everything. As others have pointed out most people want a more rounded, practical car... Toys and quality plastics. You know, ooh that's nice, it's got this, it's got that etc... Renault Sport cars are more focuses on driving fun and dynamics rather than creature comforts. That's what they excel and and for the Focus and especially the Golf folk it's not what they want. When I had my Clio and 306 most people wonder why I didn't have a Golf GTI... Until I took them for a drive. And around that time the VW were still sell loads of GTI's. Loads of bloated overweight GTI's that were rubbish but people still bought them because, well it's a Golf... It must be good. Ford, they were no where but they too still sold stacks of hot hatches that were well off the pace. A friend of a friend drove a 205 GTi, loved it but said he could never buy one because it didn't have a Ford badge on it.
The bottom line is the majority what a more rounded car... The enthusiast wants a more focused driving experience which is what Renault give them.
Renault have been off their game, no doubt. You talk as though they've never had success or won't have it again. VW, Ford and Peugeot have had their time in the wilderness, Renault are coming back.
Incidentally, I see you drive an RCZ R. I have never seen one on the road so by your reckoning it's crap. I used to have an Audi TTS, they are way more common than the RCZ R so, your pug must be sh!te. Of course I jest, but you see what what I did there
leonintegra36 said:
SidewaysSi said:
leonintegra36 said:
What is the point of displaying old technology with the new Megane due for release soon? This or a vastly superior cheaper Focus RS hmm??? Never liked the fussy looks of the latest Clio and paddle only shift. Be better keeping the turbo 1.6 remapped, stripping interior, ditching paddleshift, flaring the arches and selling for 15k.
What are you on about? Vastly superior Focus? I don't think you have driven this Clio have you?And what has the level of tech got to do with anything? [/quote
This clio is too expensive, deriving technology from the Megane cup. Will you expect the new Megane to be 40k ? Do you really want to bet it will beat a focus rs in a group test?
I would be surprised if the Clio didn't beat the Ford to be honest. Especially with a 300KG weight advantage.
tonyb1968 said:
The Vambo said:
tonyb1968 said:
if you are talking performance cars and the BEST performance car, then it should sell in large quantities,
Just no.Peugeot 208 GTI, rated higher than the latest RenaultSport Clio (because people dont like auto boxes on performance cars).
Released 2013, sold around 3000 units in the UK.
Ford Fiesta ST, pretty much THE best in class, released 2013, sold 11,000+ units.
Latest Renaulsport Clio, released around 2013, sold 1000 units to date.
I think the figures actually speak for themselves, you can be a fanboy all you like but sometimes you have to sit back and say "yup, its not the best they have produced and its not the class leader".
I have been there, love my french cars (just look at my car history, damn ive owned 4 Renaults, 12 or is 13 Peugeots) and even I know what car is the best, some will buy the car because its marque x and be brand loyal, me, moved from Renault to Peugeot, back to Renault, back to Peugeot then off to Subaru, now back with Peugeot with the odd ford and vauxhall thrown in in the middle.
SidewaysSi said:
leonintegra36 said:
SidewaysSi said:
leonintegra36 said:
What is the point of displaying old technology with the new Megane due for release soon? This or a vastly superior cheaper Focus RS hmm??? Never liked the fussy looks of the latest Clio and paddle only shift. Be better keeping the turbo 1.6 remapped, stripping interior, ditching paddleshift, flaring the arches and selling for 15k.
What are you on about? Vastly superior Focus? I don't think you have driven this Clio have you?And what has the level of tech got to do with anything? [/quote
This clio is too expensive, deriving technology from the Megane cup. Will you expect the new Megane to be 40k ? Do you really want to bet it will beat a focus rs in a group test?
I would be surprised if the Clio didn't beat the Ford to be honest. Especially with a 300KG weight advantage.
leonintegra36 said:
SidewaysSi said:
leonintegra36 said:
SidewaysSi said:
leonintegra36 said:
What is the point of displaying old technology with the new Megane due for release soon? This or a vastly superior cheaper Focus RS hmm??? Never liked the fussy looks of the latest Clio and paddle only shift. Be better keeping the turbo 1.6 remapped, stripping interior, ditching paddleshift, flaring the arches and selling for 15k.
What are you on about? Vastly superior Focus? I don't think you have driven this Clio have you?And what has the level of tech got to do with anything? [/quote
This clio is too expensive, deriving technology from the Megane cup. Will you expect the new Megane to be 40k ? Do you really want to bet it will beat a focus rs in a group test?
I would be surprised if the Clio didn't beat the Ford to be honest. Especially with a 300KG weight advantage.
Gandahar said:
Number of Clio EDC turbo 200 thingies seen on the road by me since they launched it
0
Number of Fiesta ST's with some Mountune bits
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Renault fecked up big time with 5 doors and a crap gearshift. Now trying to claw back some kudos.
FAIL
I still don't get this argument.I almost bought the Clio BECAUSE it had the auto box and the 5 doors also it's blooming lovely inside (and out) compared to the Fiesta. I'm under the impression that even if the Clio had been given more positive reviews everyone would have just bought the Fiesta anyway because it's a Ford.0
Number of Fiesta ST's with some Mountune bits
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Renault fecked up big time with 5 doors and a crap gearshift. Now trying to claw back some kudos.
FAIL
Chris Harris' review of the Clio was quite favourable and even though they improved it a lot with the 220 trophy it seems no one bought those either which leads me to think the "because ford" argument is just a UK thing.
Edited by JoeMarano on Sunday 29th May 20:10
JoeMarano said:
Gandahar said:
Number of Clio EDC turbo 200 thingies seen on the road by me since they launched it
0
Number of Fiesta ST's with some Mountune bits
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Renault fecked up big time with 5 doors and a crap gearshift. Now trying to claw back some kudos.
FAIL
I still don't get this argument.I almost bought the Clio BECAUSE it had the auto box and the 5 doors also it's blooming lovely inside (and out) compared to the Fiesta. I'm under the impression that even if the Clio had been given more positive reviews everyone would have just bought the Fiesta anyway because it's a Ford.0
Number of Fiesta ST's with some Mountune bits
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Renault fecked up big time with 5 doors and a crap gearshift. Now trying to claw back some kudos.
FAIL
Chris Harris' review of the Clio was quite favourable and even though they improved it a lot with the 220 trophy it seems no one bought those either which leads me to think the "because ford" argument is just a UK thing.
Edited by JoeMarano on Sunday 29th May 20:10
The Clio ticked every box as a daily and hasn't disappointed.I'm just sick of people commenting who are relying on internet reviews and haven't even sat in one, nevermind driven one.
JoeMarano said:
Gandahar said:
Number of Clio EDC turbo 200 thingies seen on the road by me since they launched it
0
Number of Fiesta ST's with some Mountune bits
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Renault fecked up big time with 5 doors and a crap gearshift. Now trying to claw back some kudos.
FAIL
I still don't get this argument.I almost bought the Clio BECAUSE it had the auto box and the 5 doors also it's blooming lovely inside (and out) compared to the Fiesta. I'm under the impression that even if the Clio had been given more positive reviews everyone would have just bought the Fiesta anyway because it's a Ford.0
Number of Fiesta ST's with some Mountune bits
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Renault fecked up big time with 5 doors and a crap gearshift. Now trying to claw back some kudos.
FAIL
Chris Harris' review of the Clio was quite favourable and even though they improved it a lot with the 220 trophy it seems no one bought those either which leads me to think the "because ford" argument is just a UK thing.
Edited by JoeMarano on Sunday 29th May 20:10
Hoink said:
You've just highlighted why I bought mine The Clio ticked every box as a daily and hasn't disappointed.
I'm just sick of people commenting who are relying on internet reviews and haven't even sat in one, nevermind driven one.
I probably would have bought the 220 trophy if it hadn't have been for s The Clio ticked every box as a daily and hasn't disappointed.I'm just sick of people commenting who are relying on internet reviews and haven't even sat in one, nevermind driven one.
t renault customer service (it's been consistent for years) ended up with the Polo Gti (that's equally hated it seems) If I hadn't have gone with that it would have been the Clio then 208 gti then the Cooper S and perhaps the abarth as my next choices.
I just don't get the love for the ST. So it wags it's tail around a bit and is supposedly good on track (something the Clio is equally as good at) but it's just nasty to look at inside and out and who out of the billion owners even go on track anyway? So what people are getting is a cheap nasty looking modern day saxo just because it's had positive reviews on the way it drives. Sorry but all modern hot hatches drive well. I'd much rather some added practicality and looks than a kia rental looking car on the inside.
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