Why driverless car's are a LONG way off.

[Halmyre]

I notice that the general assumption is that the rationale behind all this is improving safety, or improving the lot of the poor overworked motorist, which is all horse st.

So, who or what is the real driving (sorry) force behind this master plan? Who stands to make vast piles of moolah?

[Megaflow]

Wills2 said:

I think the biggest disappointment will be (for those that want this) you'll still be held to be in charge of the vehicle, there will be no texting/being picked up drunk from the pub/facebook/twitter etc...

Someone will have to be held responsible and it isn't going to be Google/Tesla or the CPU etc...it will be you.

What he said. Legislation will be the biggest problem to autonomous cars. If the driver is still responsible for the vehicle, even if the vehicle does have an accident, then as Wills2 said, it won't be possible to go to the pub get rat arsed and have the car take you home, or work whilst she commuting, etc. If that happens to be the case, what is the point of them, you haven't freed the driver of responsibility, therefore they have to be paying attention and prepared to react, in which case they may as well be driving.

[Hoofy]

Megaflow said:

Wills2 said:

I think the biggest disappointment will be (for those that want this) you'll still be held to be in charge of the vehicle, there will be no texting/being picked up drunk from the pub/facebook/twitter etc...

Someone will have to be held responsible and it isn't going to be Google/Tesla or the CPU etc...it will be you.

What he said. Legislation will be the biggest problem to autonomous cars. If the driver is still responsible for the vehicle, even if the vehicle does have an accident, then as Wills2 said, it won't be possible to go to the pub get rat arsed and have the car take you home, or work whilst she commuting, etc. If that happens to be the case, what is the point of them, you haven't freed the driver of responsibility, therefore they have to be paying attention and prepared to react, in which case they may as well be driving.

Aye. The next best thing is a car with an autobox.

[spreadsheet monkey]

98elise said:

EnglishTony said:

I think the major stumbling block is going to be customer resistance. Why would anybody want one?

Same reason people buy washing machines instead of buckets and mangles. For 95% of the population driving is not something done for pleasure.

I drive 30k+ a year. If I could buy a fully automated car now I would.

^^ This. The views and tastes of PHers are not representative of the views and tastes of the UK public as a whole! There should be a sticky at the top of GG to remind people of this!

I look forward to the arrival of automated cars to rescue us from the dangers of inexperienced teenagers, hapless OAPs and distracted parents of young children. If the widespread adoption of driverless cars results in my XK8 being relegated from weekend car to driveway ornament, then so be it.

[Gary C]

TheInternet said:

Gary C said:

Actually the recent Google project report showed that the accidents that have occurred, they were all caused by other road users, and that the harm was reduced by the actions taken by the driverless cars.

Including the one where the Googlemobile drove into a bus?

Interesting one that.

The car assumed the bus would yield as it was in front, and it didn't Rather than it just driving into the side of a stationary bus.

Thing is, they are here and working already. It's not that the software can't be written (as per the original posters opinion), it's more the willingness of the legislators and the public.

That's not to say there won't be accidents caused by the cars, and even deaths, but the results so far show the driverless cars are safer than people.

Very small sample though, would be interesting to stick a Google car in Mumbai !

[Halmyre]

Megaflow said:

Wills2 said:

I think the biggest disappointment will be (for those that want this) you'll still be held to be in charge of the vehicle, there will be no texting/being picked up drunk from the pub/facebook/twitter etc...

Someone will have to be held responsible and it isn't going to be Google/Tesla or the CPU etc...it will be you.

What he said. Legislation will be the biggest problem to autonomous cars. If the driver is still responsible for the vehicle, even if the vehicle does have an accident, then as Wills2 said, it won't be possible to go to the pub get rat arsed and have the car take you home, or work whilst she commuting, etc. If that happens to be the case, what is the point of them, you haven't freed the driver of responsibility, therefore they have to be paying attention and prepared to react, in which case they may as well be driving.

And the 'driver' will be less prepared to react suddenly because he won't be concentrating at the same level as if he was actually in control of the vehicle.

[StottyEvo]

EnglishTony said:

StottyEvo said:

EnglishTony said:

I think the major stumbling block is going to be customer resistance. Why would anybody want one?

Absolutely fking steloads of people would love one for many many many very obvious reasons

This comment has me a little baffled.

Are you an engineer involved in a driverless car programme?

I'm sure this place just gets weirder day by day.

No, I don't have any interest in owning a driverless car but I could see why my grandma would like one so she can build jigsaws with my little sister whilst she takes her to gymnastics.

Maybe even my brother, so when he's commuting over an hour for work he can work on a presentation that is due at the end of the week.

[jkh112]

Gary C said:

jkh112 said:

Krikkit said:

4. Easy enough to monitor its own sensors - firstly you build in redundancy by having two sets of everything, then you can compare the inputs of both.

Not quite that easy due to common cause failure. You would also need to build in diversity and segregation.

Lol, do you work in the nuclear industry too ?

Sometimes I do, but I also work in other safety critical industries including automotive and defence. The same principles apply across them all.

[jamoor]

TL;DR

But this addresses the first of your points.

[technodup]

MG CHRIS said:

I just cant see it working the public don't want it and the road network isn't set up for them.

Aye, it's almost as if every major car manufacturer, several of the biggest tech companies and countless governments are spending billions going into this blind.

In reality they have done the research and concluded

1) the public wants them, or
2) the public doesn't want them but is getting them anyway

We have these threads every few weeks. With the same desperate arguments as if Google or Mercedes designers or engineers or lobbyists haven't thought of them already.

I'm taking it as accepted they're coming. What's interesting to me is how we will use them/how they are marketed. Given most of the time most people aren't driving, will we ultimately not own cars, and instead use pool type arrangements similar to a taxi service/car club? Or will we own it but rent it out whilst at work, AirBnB style?

I think looking at them as a direct replacement for today's car is one of the mistakes. I see the usage and ownership patterns being qute different in a few decades time.

[anonymous-user]

EnglishTony said:

I think the major stumbling block is going to be customer resistance. Why would anybody want one?

Me for one, there are times I love driving and others when its a tedious time consuming chore.

[vonhosen]

EnglishTony said:

I think the major stumbling block is going to be customer resistance. Why would anybody want one?

Because a lot of people would want to go auto pilot while they read or do work on the commute. A car is merely white goods for most.

[swamp]

There are roughly 30,000 road deaths every year in the US, with many if these due to driver error. Humans aren't 'good' drivers.

Google cars use machine learning and have been trained with millions of miles in simulations and real driving. This number will grow and grow, but of course there will always be new situations: such as the lady in an electric wheelchair chasing a duck across the road...

[405dogvan]

swamp said:

such as the lady in an electric wheelchair chasing a duck across the road...

If you encounter her, you'll have your word against hers - maybe you'll have a dashcam video at best - YOU might learn to look-out for her again.

When Google encounters her, they have a tonne of data which models every aspect of the scene in precision detail AND they'll be able to adapt ALL their cars to deal with that pretty much instantly ;0

[Wills2]

Halmyre said:

Megaflow said:

Wills2 said:

I think the biggest disappointment will be (for those that want this) you'll still be held to be in charge of the vehicle, there will be no texting/being picked up drunk from the pub/facebook/twitter etc...

Someone will have to be held responsible and it isn't going to be Google/Tesla or the CPU etc...it will be you.

What he said. Legislation will be the biggest problem to autonomous cars. If the driver is still responsible for the vehicle, even if the vehicle does have an accident, then as Wills2 said, it won't be possible to go to the pub get rat arsed and have the car take you home, or work whilst she commuting, etc. If that happens to be the case, what is the point of them, you haven't freed the driver of responsibility, therefore they have to be paying attention and prepared to react, in which case they may as well be driving.

And the 'driver' will be less prepared to react suddenly because he won't be concentrating at the same level as if he was actually in control of the vehicle.

And then you'll get done for careless driving.

[hairyben]

The standard of driving is so low in the UK today from what it was when I started driving 20 years ago that the idea of self-driving cars all around me doesn't concern me unduly. The google prototypes show it can be done, add to that some communications ability and the onward march of technology generally they should be theoretically superior in safety terms however we might feel about it.

[Condi]

Its coming, and tbh Im quite looking forward to it.

Machines on farms are already in many ways self driving, albeit off road. If you dont have to worry about where the machine is going, or at what speed, you can concentrate on other things, such as how the machine is set up, and tinker to make it more efficient. But the biggest change is how tired you feel after a long shift. After 14 hours of concentrating on keeping a straight line you're knackered, but after 14 hours on auto pilot you still feel awake and with it. To the driver, and the employer, this is worth so much money. Staff who are tired make mistakes, and mistakes are expensive. If you can keep the staff fresh for when they need to concentrate mistakes are much less likely.

[J4CKO]

Will driverless cars get angry and chase down other motorists and cuase a massive accident paralyzing two kids in the process, probably not.....

Its coming, they wont be perfect but they will be better than most human drivers to start with and all human drivers after a few years, of ccourse go in any Tescos and ask your average customer they wont like the idea but will then drive home shoting at the kids, bumping up kerbs, flocking the v's and generally not being very good at driving, one crash from an autonomous car does not prove they are crap despite the ineviatable outcry whilst nobody notices the hundreds or RTA's every single day of the year.

[Mr Snrub]

Wills2 said:

Halmyre said:

Megaflow said:

Wills2 said:

I think the biggest disappointment will be (for those that want this) you'll still be held to be in charge of the vehicle, there will be no texting/being picked up drunk from the pub/facebook/twitter etc...

Someone will have to be held responsible and it isn't going to be Google/Tesla or the CPU etc...it will be you.

What he said. Legislation will be the biggest problem to autonomous cars. If the driver is still responsible for the vehicle, even if the vehicle does have an accident, then as Wills2 said, it won't be possible to go to the pub get rat arsed and have the car take you home, or work whilst she commuting, etc. If that happens to be the case, what is the point of them, you haven't freed the driver of responsibility, therefore they have to be paying attention and prepared to react, in which case they may as well be driving.

And the 'driver' will be less prepared to react suddenly because he won't be concentrating at the same level as if he was actually in control of the vehicle.

And then you'll get done for careless driving.

Be interested to know waht would happen if the system breaks the speed limit or enters a bus lane. Who would be liable?

[smn159]

They represent change and for that reason alone some people will feel uncomfortable with them. Personally I'd have one in a shot if I could put my feet up and watch the telly during my commute.