Cheap fun for the twistys?
Discussion
Telecaster_ said:
Absolute power isn't a must, if it handles like an absolute go-kart to make up for it. I'd only sacrifice some handling performance for laugh-out-loud power.
Pity the Fabia diesel VRS handles like an absolute pig, that sort of torquey motor would make it quite funny.
+1 to the Fabia VRS. I loved mine. Mapped to 180bhp with a torque mountain at 2krpm, breaking the front end loose in 2nd gear and even 3rd in the wet when the turbo spooled never got old. Handling was crashy over bumps and a bit lean happy, massive front bias weight means the back end would step out under braking, since that steel diesel block weighed about a million tons.Pity the Fabia diesel VRS handles like an absolute pig, that sort of torquey motor would make it quite funny.
Wouldnt say its a car for complete 'fun' but 50mpg made it a fantastic commuter, wish I never sold mine. A rear ARB did wonders to its handling.
Im in the same boat as you engine wise. After I sold that I stepped into a 2.5 v6 n/a which just wasnt the same with its progressive torque band. It didnt sound like a white van though which is a plus.
Edited by caelite on Sunday 5th June 12:42
JoeMarano said:
I would go for something with more torque than a 172/182 sure they are pretty fun in the corners but they suffer from a lack of torque low down in my opinion and it's one of the reasons why i love my Polo gti so much (I've just come from a 172 which I owned for a couple of years)
You have to drive them properly ie. rev them out more and actually change gear.I've also got a saab 9-5 aero now it's the total opposite of my cup.
It's got bags of torque , it's comfy however it is a one trick pony.
Other than flooring it off roundabouts and onto motorways without changing down gear it's got nothing, it's so insulated there's not so much feed back, on b roads you have to brake a lot more for corners as all you do is brake floor it out then brake again for the next corner compared to the cup which just carries so much corner speed you just don't have to brake much.
And on the motorway you have the ability to get into 3 figures easily but in all honestly i don't really go any quicker than 80 and probably only use the motorway a couple of times a year.
Downside of the cup is it's noisy , far more bumpy and you have to use the gears to keeep in the 5000rpm sweet spot.
For b roads forget about big turbo torque and go for revvy n/a and superb handling.
I've just always been a fan of small FWD hatches that handle like they're on rails. One of the most fun cars out of the tens and tens I've owned was a little 106 1.1xn, just pin the throttle everywhere and if you find a corner you cant hit flat out just back off and bring the rear around a little to turn it in more, never a boring journey in that car!
Going back to Clios, is the Trophy worth the premium? I could easily up the budget to cover it but I'm wondering if the standard 182/cup offers about 99% of the performance for three grand less.
Going back to Clios, is the Trophy worth the premium? I could easily up the budget to cover it but I'm wondering if the standard 182/cup offers about 99% of the performance for three grand less.
Telecaster_ said:
I've just always been a fan of small FWD hatches that handle like they're on rails. One of the most fun cars out of the tens and tens I've owned was a little 106 1.1xn, just pin the throttle everywhere and if you find a corner you cant hit flat out just back off and bring the rear around a little to turn it in more, never a boring journey in that car!
Going back to Clios, is the Trophy worth the premium? I could easily up the budget to cover it but I'm wondering if the standard 182/cup offers about 99% of the performance for three grand less.
Whereabouts are you based?Going back to Clios, is the Trophy worth the premium? I could easily up the budget to cover it but I'm wondering if the standard 182/cup offers about 99% of the performance for three grand less.
I'm sure someone on here or cliosport or cliosport owners club in facebook would take you out for a spin.
I've never been in a trophy , i doubt a normal clio would be 99% of a trophy maybe 80% would be in the ballpark.
Get a clio cup then if you want to sharpen it up get coilovers, mine came with kw adjustables and it is quite harsh but it just has mental amount of grip , fast corners, slow corners, off camber corners doesn't seem to make any difference to the cup just chuck it in and it comes out the other side.
When the suspension needs changing i may go back to the stock cup set up just to see how it is as stock but i wouldn't fork out yet as the coilovers still work fine.
If you gave me £3000 and told me to me to get another hot hatch that isn't a clio i think i'd go for a mini cooper with the supercharger but sure the mpg would piss me off.
Edited by egor110 on Sunday 5th June 15:06
Telecaster_ said:
For torque I was thinking of coming out of a lot of low speed bends and hairpins and wanting a nice amount of acceleration before the next one, TBH I've never had much luck with N/A motors, it always feels like your waiting for something to happen and it never does.
It sounds as though you haven't yet figured out how a gearbox works.All the 172/182's are pretty much the same no matter what spec you get them in. They aren't even going to pull more than a length on each other on a straight.
I have a video where a stripped out track prepped 182 couldn't get away from my full weight non cup 172 at Snetterton in fact he had to move out the way everyone we were on the track together so i believe the differences between them all are negligible and you should buy the cheapest and best you can find
I have a video where a stripped out track prepped 182 couldn't get away from my full weight non cup 172 at Snetterton in fact he had to move out the way everyone we were on the track together so i believe the differences between them all are negligible and you should buy the cheapest and best you can find
Just out of interest have any of you fwd clio types had any experience rwd or with say a mid engined lightweight car such as the mr2 roadster?
Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
200Plus Club said:
Just out of interest have any of you fwd clio types had any experience rwd or with say a mid engined lightweight car such as the mr2 roadster?
Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
Yes, I owned a 170bhp k series Elise. The Elise was sublime but I just feel more confident in the Trophy. I'll own another Elise in the future, though.Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
200Plus Club said:
Just out of interest have any of you fwd clio types had any experience rwd or with say a mid engined lightweight car such as the mr2 roadster?
Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
All the work stuff is RWD, but Im not sure vans and lorries are what you mean... Never driven a MR layout car but have driven an E30 bmw in the past. I couldnt get over the offset pedals to remember anything else about it. Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
Feirny said:
Yes, I owned a 170bhp k series Elise. The Elise was sublime but I just feel more confident in the Trophy. I'll own another Elise in the future, though.
So for yourself it's more of a fwd confidence issue etc? The astra vxr I had round Croft was absolutely ballistic missile but just full throttle all the time as such in bends to drag you round and out.It's interesting finding out sometimes why people recommend one car over another. I certainly can't understand the diesel alternatives offered in a "cheap fun in twisties thread " :-)
200Plus Club said:
Just out of interest have any of you fwd clio types had any experience rwd or with say a mid engined lightweight car such as the mr2 roadster?
Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
I have a 172 Cup & a 911, previously owned Mk2 Escort, 200SX & BMW 330.Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
Love the 172 but as a 2nd car, too hardcore as an only car at my age!
200Plus Club said:
Just out of interest have any of you fwd clio types had any experience rwd or with say a mid engined lightweight car such as the mr2 roadster?
Reason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
Just to clarify i'm not saying rwd is sReason I ask is I have had any number of powerful nippy fwd cars in the past. I know modern fwd don't compare as such, but even having thrashed a brand new Astra vxr with tricky drexler diff round Croft last year I wouldn't ever personally recommend fwd over something rwd myself as the driving experience is just better when the front wheels just steer. Maybe it's just me. Just interested that's all as the clio is always recommended in these situations. If you have had experience and prefer the clio speak up :-)
t and fwd is the only answer.I've driven a lotus exige at silverstone, but didn't enjoy the movement of the car into copse despite having a instructor really pushing me to go faster.
Give me a fwd or awd anyday but i understand we're all different and prefer different things.
I can't get on track often so what i want is a capable , predictable , b road car as that's what's around where i live.
LordHaveMurci said:
I have a 172 Cup & a 911, previously owned Mk2 Escort, 200SX & BMW 330.
Love the 172 but as a 2nd car, too hardcore as an only car at my age!
See the 911 itself is a different beast altogether even though rwd. Mine was set up by Centre Gravity and is about as good as you can get a 993 but it's a slow turning initial understeer into oversteer momentum car. I've had mk2 escorts- old technology ones.Love the 172 but as a 2nd car, too hardcore as an only car at my age!
Mid engine rwd and lightweight is "think of turning in" and you've already gone round the bend. Darty issue the word lol. I know I wouldn't keep up down twisty lanes in my 993 when cracking on in the mr2. I'd love 200bhp in one of these things, if the engine does pop that's the next move.
200Plus Club said:
Feirny said:
Yes, I owned a 170bhp k series Elise. The Elise was sublime but I just feel more confident in the Trophy. I'll own another Elise in the future, though.
So for yourself it's more of a fwd confidence issue etc? The astra vxr I had round Croft was absolutely ballistic missile but just full throttle all the time as such in bends to drag you round and out.It's interesting finding out sometimes why people recommend one car over another. I certainly can't understand the diesel alternatives offered in a "cheap fun in twisties thread " :-)
egor110 said:
Just to clarify i'm not saying rwd is st and fwd is the only answer.
I've driven a lotus exige at silverstone, but didn't enjoy the movement of the car into copse despite having a instructor really pushing me to go faster.
Give me a fwd or awd anyday but i understand we're all different and prefer different things.
I can't get on track often so what i want is a capable , predictable , b road car as that's what's around where i live.
No that's fine, no one is, a really good fwd hatch will be fun and brilliant vfm. It's more for my interest as such. I've had a 500bhp mid engined rwd V8 Lola replica which you had to drive with care on track, that tbh was overkill and because of the weight transfer and power ultimately not as enjoyable as a cheap mid engine mr2t and fwd is the only answer.I've driven a lotus exige at silverstone, but didn't enjoy the movement of the car into copse despite having a instructor really pushing me to go faster.
Give me a fwd or awd anyday but i understand we're all different and prefer different things.
I can't get on track often so what i want is a capable , predictable , b road car as that's what's around where i live.
FR and MR feel quite different and it's great to experience both back to back on a fast drive/track. FR is normally more predicatable, MR will rotate more keenly and feel very alert and pointy. Of course, it can bite hard too.
Best answer: get a bigger garage or band together with 2 friends and buy an MX5 mk1, MR2 mk3, and a Clio1*2.
Best answer: get a bigger garage or band together with 2 friends and buy an MX5 mk1, MR2 mk3, and a Clio1*2.
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