RE: New TVR - the car
Discussion
judas said:
The boot was full of wine from a trip to France - no room for the roof panel 
I know what you mean but we used to find that we could get what we needed on the back bench. Having said that, yes, some of those Le mans trips were unbearably hot even with the roof off. I remember one trip where I thought the car was on fire underneath because when I opened the door and felt the sills they were so hot you could hardly touch them! Heat sink from the chassis to the outriggers made it like sitting in a radiator! fatbutt said:
Two of my TVR's had AC, two didn't. The two that didn't were driven with the roof off when it was hot. The two that did I rarely used it as it didn't seem to do much.
As for the 10% bit; watch any consumer programme that does a 0 - 60 test. First thing they do is turn the AC off.
I don't think I've seen that in a consumer programme since the 90's... and even if they did, what does that prove?As for the 10% bit; watch any consumer programme that does a 0 - 60 test. First thing they do is turn the AC off.
I'm sure there are smart people on here that know much more specific numbers, but some brief googling would suggest PEAK load from aircon is somewhere around 3KW which is 1% of the power this car is supposed to have, and probably less than the power variation from engine to engine.... and that's PEAK load, not the actual load it uses most of the time.
m3jappa said:
A few posts back I saw someone saying the LE will be 80k plus. Where has the info come from? Everything I've read from tvr seems to point at 60k plus with the LE being a thankyou to the depositors. Maybe 80k when it's in proper production after the initial 500?
Article said:
How much money will these buyers have to cough up? The standard car that follows will apparently pick up where Sagaris pricing left off and in the realms of, as Edgar has it "souped up Caymans" like the GT4, meaning at least £60K. Edgar rightly identifies pricing as a "hot topic" but is unapologetic at the Launch Edition costing significantly more than this
So while £80k certainly isn't set in stone, it seems a pretty likely price point considering the above.I have to say, personally I think it's a pretty odd concept to give those people who have put their neck on the line for you a Launch Edition costing "significantly more" than the regular one... A company like Merc can certainly do this (and do), but I would have thought when you launched a new company (which this effectively is), you'd want to give early adopters something of better value.
Umm and that's what worries me then, at 60k ish I could do it, certainly in two years time. At 80k I don't think it will happen, not without some sort of finance and baloon which I'd rather not. And either way 80k is getting on for some serious serious cars (granted used).
At that level used (I know I know) even today we have nearly new v10 r8. F430, aston v12 vantage, 997 turbo with pdk. In a couple of years time possibly the amg gt. All very different cars but all very serious to any petrol head. Some of those cars will lose very little if any money.
If it's 80k plus I can see a lot of deposits being reclaimed. That's a lot of money for something un proven.
On the flip side part of me thinks that if they nail the looks and it drives half as well as I reckon it will then those 80k cars will be driven for a couple of years and sold for not a lot less than when new.
I've been umming and arring for some time now regarding a deposit, I just don't know what to do at the moment.
At that level used (I know I know) even today we have nearly new v10 r8. F430, aston v12 vantage, 997 turbo with pdk. In a couple of years time possibly the amg gt. All very different cars but all very serious to any petrol head. Some of those cars will lose very little if any money.
If it's 80k plus I can see a lot of deposits being reclaimed. That's a lot of money for something un proven.
On the flip side part of me thinks that if they nail the looks and it drives half as well as I reckon it will then those 80k cars will be driven for a couple of years and sold for not a lot less than when new.
I've been umming and arring for some time now regarding a deposit, I just don't know what to do at the moment.
M3jappa I'm with you on this one, I would love to order one and I'm a true TVR lover, however like everyone is saying things have changed in the last ten years and you can get a lot of car for £80k, just look at thr F type starting price about £55k so I'm not sure it's going to work if TVR base car is £60k.
hufggfg said:
I don't think I've seen that in a consumer programme since the 90's... and even if they did, what does that prove?
I'm sure there are smart people on here that know much more specific numbers, but some brief googling would suggest PEAK load from aircon is somewhere around 3KW which is 1% of the power this car is supposed to have, and probably less than the power variation from engine to engine.... and that's PEAK load, not the actual load it uses most of the time.
5th gear used to do it all the time, especially VBH. I'm sure there are smart people on here that know much more specific numbers, but some brief googling would suggest PEAK load from aircon is somewhere around 3KW which is 1% of the power this car is supposed to have, and probably less than the power variation from engine to engine.... and that's PEAK load, not the actual load it uses most of the time.
Okay, 10% is high for this particular engine but engines have torque curves so at low rev's AC will have an impact. I'm not saying its a huge impact but its there.
In all the interviews Edger said the price point would be approx £55k....so I can go £60k. However, he said the LE would have carbon body and chassis [i stream] at no extra cost to standard model. In the interviews he also said that it would have ABS, Cosworth tuned Ford V8 and a manual gear box. Even at £60k price point I would expect a decent interior, alloys etc. So what the hell are they doing to the LE to make it substantially and unapologetically more expensive. £20k plus more expensive for parts bin extras....that buys a lot of leather and performance upgrades.
I put my deposit down expecting, as Edgar had said, an LE with carbon at no extra cost....see this move to substantially more expensive as being a disingenuous move and one that may very well result in a lot of returned deposits. In the past TVR price point played a major point in the decision to buy. Yes the cars had flaws but they worked at that price. If he is moving away from this he will have to find a host of new TVR followers prepared to shell out £80k and compete in an altogether different space.
Why can't the LE be exactly what it was originally touted to be...carbon at no extra cost a special paint job and some one off trim.....simples.
I put my deposit down expecting, as Edgar had said, an LE with carbon at no extra cost....see this move to substantially more expensive as being a disingenuous move and one that may very well result in a lot of returned deposits. In the past TVR price point played a major point in the decision to buy. Yes the cars had flaws but they worked at that price. If he is moving away from this he will have to find a host of new TVR followers prepared to shell out £80k and compete in an altogether different space.
Why can't the LE be exactly what it was originally touted to be...carbon at no extra cost a special paint job and some one off trim.....simples.
Top Gear interview 2015: http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/new-tvr-wi...
"TG.com: Do you want to take sales away from Aston Martin, Lotus, Porsche?
LE: Take back, you mean? In Europe the segment we’re looking at is maybe 55 to 75,000 cars per year. I don’t think we’ll expand that, but I do think there’s a gap for us. Our volume aspirations are very realistic - around 1500 cars per year. The area we’re looking at - £55-£85k - is a good place to be, for a relatively small volume car maker. We’re focused on the UK, with expansion into the hot spots for our brand in Europe. We’ve stress-tested it, so that we know how much we can scale it back if we need to, without losing our shirt. But is it a risk? Yes, of course it is."
I'm also about ready to put a deposit down. I drove the new AM Vantage V12 S manual last week but this looks far more interesting. What's the latest on the production facility in Wales now that Circuit of Wales looks off the cards?
"TG.com: Do you want to take sales away from Aston Martin, Lotus, Porsche?
LE: Take back, you mean? In Europe the segment we’re looking at is maybe 55 to 75,000 cars per year. I don’t think we’ll expand that, but I do think there’s a gap for us. Our volume aspirations are very realistic - around 1500 cars per year. The area we’re looking at - £55-£85k - is a good place to be, for a relatively small volume car maker. We’re focused on the UK, with expansion into the hot spots for our brand in Europe. We’ve stress-tested it, so that we know how much we can scale it back if we need to, without losing our shirt. But is it a risk? Yes, of course it is."
I'm also about ready to put a deposit down. I drove the new AM Vantage V12 S manual last week but this looks far more interesting. What's the latest on the production facility in Wales now that Circuit of Wales looks off the cards?
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 8th June 11:58
One of the great advantages when using the Gordon Murray iStream technology is that the body design can be finalised much later than that of a traditionally ‘stamped’ car. The body is essentially non-structural and – provided we don’t impinge on the structural hard points (God forbid – Gordon’s not one for compromise I’m happy to say!) – it can be finally finessed in tandem with the rest of the car.
Speaking of the chassis, you may be aware that Gordon Murray announced at the Tokyo Motor show last month (November 2015) the introduction of iStream Carbon. I guess you may be wondering whether this amazing, exciting new technology will be available as an option on the new TVR… well the good news is that IT WILL and (in line with our promises that early adopters would be treated exceptionally well) it is scheduled to be included as a NO COST option on the LE car!.....TVR website
I am hoping to be treated exceptionally well.
Speaking of the chassis, you may be aware that Gordon Murray announced at the Tokyo Motor show last month (November 2015) the introduction of iStream Carbon. I guess you may be wondering whether this amazing, exciting new technology will be available as an option on the new TVR… well the good news is that IT WILL and (in line with our promises that early adopters would be treated exceptionally well) it is scheduled to be included as a NO COST option on the LE car!.....TVR website
I am hoping to be treated exceptionally well.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but have TVR actually built a single mule vehicle yet? They have a Mustang with their engine mods, but what about the rest of the car? Their claimed time to volume is looking incredibly optimistic if they haven't started prototype validation yet (let along production validation......)
Michael-i7gna said:
In all the interviews Edger said the price point would be approx £55k....so I can go £60k. However, he said the LE would have carbon body and chassis [i stream] at no extra cost to standard model. In the interviews he also said that it would have ABS, Cosworth tuned Ford V8 and a manual gear box. Even at £60k price point I would expect a decent interior, alloys etc. So what the hell are they doing to the LE to make it substantially and unapologetically more expensive. £20k plus more expensive for parts bin extras....that buys a lot of leather and performance upgrades.
I put my deposit down expecting, as Edgar had said, an LE with carbon at no extra cost....see this move to substantially more expensive as being a disingenuous move and one that may very well result in a lot of returned deposits. In the past TVR price point played a major point in the decision to buy. Yes the cars had flaws but they worked at that price. If he is moving away from this he will have to find a host of new TVR followers prepared to shell out £80k and compete in an altogether different space.
Why can't the LE be exactly what it was originally touted to be...carbon at no extra cost a special paint job and some one off trim.....simples.
Nope - every conversation I've had with Les Edgar, or been present at has said they are looking at £80K ish for the LE model, the base model will be in the £65K+ range. That will be a standard engine, non carbon tub. LE model will be fully spec'd, unique one off colour, cosworth engine.I put my deposit down expecting, as Edgar had said, an LE with carbon at no extra cost....see this move to substantially more expensive as being a disingenuous move and one that may very well result in a lot of returned deposits. In the past TVR price point played a major point in the decision to buy. Yes the cars had flaws but they worked at that price. If he is moving away from this he will have to find a host of new TVR followers prepared to shell out £80k and compete in an altogether different space.
Why can't the LE be exactly what it was originally touted to be...carbon at no extra cost a special paint job and some one off trim.....simples.
I so want this to work and suceed. Lets face it - current owners need something new to buy in a few years time
I tend to think that Gordon Murray Design will build the initial production run. From what I read somewhere, the production equipment is already designed (presumably built soon?) so with small numbers planned for next year, I figured they would build initial production at GMD.
Those were my initial thoughts. Hopefully there will be more information about that at the preview event.
Those were my initial thoughts. Hopefully there will be more information about that at the preview event.
Beefmeister said:
Exactly. People don't seem to understand how long it takes to built a factory and get it working, ignoring the fact that nothing even remotely like the production car has been built yet.
True, but the LE cars are going to be built at the existing GMD facility aren't they? 2017 does seem a big ask but the LE cars aren't dependent on the new factory in Wales if I've understood what has been said.DonkeyApple said:
Beefmeister said:
Exactly. People don't seem to understand how long it takes to built a factory and get it working, ignoring the fact that nothing even remotely like the production car has been built yet.
True, but the LE cars are going to be built at the existing GMD facility aren't they? 2017 does seem a big ask but the LE cars aren't dependent on the new factory in Wales if I've understood what has been said.Problem is we just don't know as THEY WON'T SODDING WELL TELL ANYONE ANYTHING CONCRETE!!!!
Moycie said:
I tend to think that Gordon Murray Design will build the initial production run. From what I read somewhere, the production equipment is already designed (presumably built soon?) so with small numbers planned for next year, I figured they would build initial production at GMD.
Those were my initial thoughts. Hopefully there will be more information about that at the preview event.
As I said £20k plus on what should be a sorted vehicle to start with....seems a lot for the LE....as other posts have said no details have been provided.....why not?Those were my initial thoughts. Hopefully there will be more information about that at the preview event.
Can they really deliver for 2017?
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