RE: Secrets of Subaru's IoM TT record car

[Welshbeef]

Slippydiff said:

On the contrary, for a near 1200kg "tank" based on a lot of 8 year old components, from a very tightly regulated series (the WRC), running on sub-optimal tyres (both construction and width) with the bare minimum of practice, it's little short of phenomenal how quick it is. That it's based on a production shell with minimal aerodynamic appendages, makes it even more incredible.

Of course, in the grand scheme of things it's not fast per se, I've no doubt a monster 991 Cup car run with 4wd, a tweaked 991 Turbo S engine putting out 850-900hp, adaptive suspension and Walter Rohrl behind the wheel would be monstrously quick, as would Loeb behind the wheel of his Pikes Peak car modified for the TT course etc. But none of that detracts from the fact that this is herculean undertaking by Higgins in a much compromised car with little in the way of practice time.

It certainly is and I'd say is on par to the effort and commitment Tony Pond undertook with that 827i Vitesse.

991 RSR

[London424]

Slippydiff said:

London424 said:

In the grand scheme of things this car really isn't very fast.

On the contrary, for a near 1200kg "tank" based on a lot of 8 year old components, from a very tightly regulated series (the WRC), running on sub-optimal tyres (both construction and width) with the bare minimum of practice, it's little short of phenomenal how quick it is. That it's based on a production shell with minimal aerodynamic appendages, makes it even more incredible.

Of course, in the grand scheme of things it's not fast per se, I've no doubt a monster 991 Cup car run with 4wd, a tweaked 991 Turbo S engine putting out 850-900hp, adaptive suspension and Walter Rohrl behind the wheel would be monstrously quick, as would Loeb behind the wheel of his Pikes Peak car modified for the TT course etc. But none of that detracts from the fact that this is herculean undertaking by Higgins in a much compromised car with little in the way of practice time.

I didn't say it wasn't fast for what it is and taking nothing away from the achievement...just that in the scheme of fast cars this just isn't that fast.

Put it around a race track or the ring and what sort of lap time extra would you think? 10%, 20%, 30%?

[Slippydiff]

Welshbeef said:

It certainly is and I'd say is on par to the effort and commitment Tony Pond undertook with that 827i Vitesse.

991 RSR

I watched some of the Pond/Vitesse in-car last night. Pond was so laconic about the whole thing (but he appeared that way about his rallying in general, but that easy going exterior belied what was a steely competitor)
I can't for one minute think the Vitesse was in any way nice to drive at that speed (the speedo spent plenty of time nudging 150mph indicated (and they were FWD to boot IIRC ?)

Thought the Cup car would be narrower than the RSR, and whilst the RSR suspension is bespoke, it's designed to scrape the Tarmac, hence the Cup car proposition

[xRIEx]

Slippydiff said:

I can't for one minute think the Vitesse was in any way nice to drive at that speed (the speedo spent plenty of time nudging 150mph indicated (and they were FWD to boot IIRC ?)

You don't recall correctly. RWD.

[ant leigh]

Nanook said:

xRIEx said:

You don't recall correctly. RWD.

You sure?

Front surely, with an LSD?

[thegreenhell]

Definitely FWD. Not sure about the LSD on those old barges though. I be surprised if it had one.

[SonicShadow]

There was an attempt in a RWD SD1 Vitesse (didn't crack the 100MPH average), the famous record car was an 827 Vitesse, which is FWD.

[anonymous-user]

xRIEx said:

You don't recall correctly. RWD.

He did it in an 827 Vitesse which was FWD.

SD1 Vitesse was RWD.

[xRIEx]

wormus said:

xRIEx said:

You don't recall correctly. RWD.

He did it in an 827 Vitesse which was FWD.

SD1 Vitesse was RWD.

Ah, sorry. I thought it was an SD1.

Edited by xRIEx on Thursday 9th June 16:45

[Welshbeef]

Rover 827i Vitesse
1427kg
177bhp
So 124bhp per tonne
0-60mph 8 seconds
1/4 mile 16.6 seconds
2.7 Ltr engine
Claimed top speed 220km/h or 137mph

Achieved a IOM TT average lap time 100mph or 73% of its top speed.

2014 Siburu could do 160mph and did a 117mph lap time so 73% of its top speed

The latest Suburu can do 180mph and has done a 128mph lap time so 71% of its top speed

Those numbers are pretty consistent.... Especially as the last one has one more run tomorrow - for it to be 73% of its top speed it would need to do 131.4mph or about 27secobds quicker.


Interesting.

[ant leigh]

thegreenhell said:

Definitely FWD. Not sure about the LSD on those old barges though. I be surprised if it had one.

I had the Vitesse 820 Turbo for a few years. Great car btw.
That had an LSD so I assumed the 827 did.

[Welshbeef]

ant leigh said:

thegreenhell said:

Definitely FWD. Not sure about the LSD on those old barges though. I be surprised if it had one.

I had the Vitesse 820 Turbo for a few years. Great car btw.
That had an LSD so I assumed the 827 did.

Do you really need LSD in a car with 124bhp per tonne? And N/A too?

[Welshbeef]

Nanook said:

Welshbeef said:

Do you really need LSD in a car with 124bhp per tonne? And N/A too?

What do you think an LSD does?

An LSD allows you to do 11's OR more importantly if stuck in snow ice mud both wheels will drive not just the one that's lost all traction.
But it's not a cheap option and the Rover 827i Vitesse didn't have one - I fact not many did. For Rover if they did for it then yet another reason why they went down the pan fitting unnecessary costly parts wasting margin when joe public doesn't want it.

[Welshbeef]

ant leigh said:

thegreenhell said:

Definitely FWD. Not sure about the LSD on those old barges though. I be surprised if it had one.

I had the Vitesse 820 Turbo for a few years. Great car btw.
That had an LSD so I assumed the 827 did.

Oddly the Turbo even though same power and 126bhp per tonne so a tiny bit more actually did the 60 in 9 seconds a second slower...which also translated to the same differential in the 1/4 mile.

Didn't the Cavalier GSI turbo demolish this in every way which in turn was bent over by the Sierra Saphire rwd Cosworth?

[PhillipM]

There's a lot of F1 cars running LSD's and I don't see many in the snow*...

• Shutup Redbull, that doesn't count

[Welshbeef]

PhillipM said:

There's a lot of F1 cars running LSD's and I don't see many in the snow*...

• Shutup Redbull, that doesn't count

Out of all the production cars made Excl purpose built off road I'd wager you'd be looking sub 1% of all cars made come with it standard. It is an unnecessary additional basic spec fit

[Welshbeef]

PhillipM said:

There's a lot of F1 cars running LSD's and I don't see many in the snow*...

• Shutup Redbull, that doesn't count

Sorry your talking about the ultimate in race technology vs say a Citroen C1. Really? Are you going to try to have that debate? Nope.

[PhillipM]

Welshbeef said:

Sorry your talking about the ultimate in race technology vs say a Citroen C1. Really? Are you going to try to have that debate? Nope.

You're talking about racing it with access to the parts bin - of which an LSD was available off the shelf to fit.
You'd fit an LSD to a C1 too if you were racing it.

[ant leigh]

Welshbeef said:

ant leigh said:

thegreenhell said:

Definitely FWD. Not sure about the LSD on those old barges though. I be surprised if it had one.

I had the Vitesse 820 Turbo for a few years. Great car btw.
That had an LSD so I assumed the 827 did.

Oddly the Turbo even though same power and 126bhp per tonne so a tiny bit more actually did the 60 in 9 seconds a second slower...which also translated to the same differential in the 1/4 mile.

Didn't the Cavalier GSI turbo demolish this in every way which in turn was bent over by the Sierra Saphire rwd Cosworth?

Vitesse Sport was 7.3 secs 0-60

[Welshbeef]

PhillipM said:

Welshbeef said:

Sorry your talking about the ultimate in race technology vs say a Citroen C1. Really? Are you going to try to have that debate? Nope.

You're talking about racing it with access to the parts bin - of which an LSD was available off the shelf to fit.
You'd fit an LSD to a C1 too if you were racing it.

But the 827i Vitesse was stock apart from slicks and a straight through exhaust for safety/marshals could hear. No one fitted this part to the car.


Not sure the point your trying to make.