Urgent Insurance advice - Carpark smash
Discussion
anniesdad said:
You're right sadly and that is to the economic benefit of the insurers. I would suggest you get copies of all the repair paperwork ie. repair estimate, authority, engineers report (if applicable), repair invoice, guarantee and satisfaction note that you will sign if/when you are happy with the repairs. Don't be surprised though that if you are not happy with the repairs and refuse to take your car back until you are that the courtesy/hire car that you have been provided with will be taken from you.
Can they do that? I couldn't do without a car for a prolonged period. I'd have to hire another. I'm wondering if I should have gone to an accident management company to fight my corner.
EnthusiastOwned said:
Can they do that? I couldn't do without a car for a prolonged period. I'd have to hire another.
I've first hand experience of this happening. I'm not saying they will/they won't only that they won't want to pay (the hire company) for a car any longer than necessary and where they feel it is their responsibility. If your issue is with the bodyshop they may well insist that the bodyshop provide you with a car. Whether the bodyshop decide to do that or not is up to them. It would be worth asking the question, not to the hire company that supplied you with the replacement car but to the insurers themselves.
Out of interest have you had to pay anything towards the hire car? CDW fees etc?
anniesdad said:
EnthusiastOwned said:
Can they do that? I couldn't do without a car for a prolonged period. I'd have to hire another.
I've first hand experience of this happening. I'm not saying they will/they won't only that they won't want to pay (the hire company) for a car any longer than necessary and where they feel it is their responsibility. If your issue is with the bodyshop they may well insist that the bodyshop provide you with a car. Whether the bodyshop decide to do that or not is up to them. It would be worth asking the question, not to the hire company that supplied you with the replacement car but to the insurers themselves.
Out of interest have you had to pay anything towards the hire car? CDW fees etc?
I'm in two minds though - Do I push for replacement panels and parts to ensure it's the best repair possible, or if the repair is filler and glue but looks great do I accept (knowing it'll likely start to show after a good few years)? I'll only be keeping the car for a couple of years now and trading in. It's a trade off between hassle now or likely hassle in the future.
What does your manufacturer say about keeping the warranty intact? In the past I know that new OEM parts were mandated by the manufacturer (certainly the likes of Porsche do).
If it's a newish car, you really don't want bits of filler ending up with a bodge job that will show a few years down the line. You need to have the car repaired at a manufacturer-authorised bodyshop and not the Dave Down The Road bodyshop your insurer wants you to take it to.
You are perfectly entitled to specify this.
You'll probably lose the courtesy car but the bodyshop may give you one anyway and just add the cost of it on to the repair bill.
If it's a newish car, you really don't want bits of filler ending up with a bodge job that will show a few years down the line. You need to have the car repaired at a manufacturer-authorised bodyshop and not the Dave Down The Road bodyshop your insurer wants you to take it to.
You are perfectly entitled to specify this.
You'll probably lose the courtesy car but the bodyshop may give you one anyway and just add the cost of it on to the repair bill.
EnthusiastOwned said:
anniesdad said:
You're right sadly and that is to the economic benefit of the insurers. I would suggest you get copies of all the repair paperwork ie. repair estimate, authority, engineers report (if applicable), repair invoice, guarantee and satisfaction note that you will sign if/when you are happy with the repairs. Don't be surprised though that if you are not happy with the repairs and refuse to take your car back until you are that the courtesy/hire car that you have been provided with will be taken from you.
Can they do that? I couldn't do without a car for a prolonged period. I'd have to hire another. I'm wondering if I should have gone to an accident management company to fight my corner.
TazLondon said:
What does your manufacturer say about keeping the warranty intact? In the past I know that new OEM parts were mandated by the manufacturer (certainly the likes of Porsche do).
If it's a newish car, you really don't want bits of filler ending up with a bodge job that will show a few years down the line. You need to have the car repaired at a manufacturer-authorised bodyshop and not the Dave Down The Road bodyshop your insurer wants you to take it to.
You are perfectly entitled to specify this.
You'll probably lose the courtesy car but the bodyshop may give you one anyway and just add the cost of it on to the repair bill.
I checked, it's an approved bodyshop and won't affect my Seat Manufactures warranty - They only use genuine parts and only repair to manufactures specification. Apparently. If it's a newish car, you really don't want bits of filler ending up with a bodge job that will show a few years down the line. You need to have the car repaired at a manufacturer-authorised bodyshop and not the Dave Down The Road bodyshop your insurer wants you to take it to.
You are perfectly entitled to specify this.
You'll probably lose the courtesy car but the bodyshop may give you one anyway and just add the cost of it on to the repair bill.
But yes, car was brand new in December so barly 6 months old, covered around 3,500 miles! I don't want any bodges.
edo said:
You are talking to one; Anniesdad. I can highly recommend his company.
Ahh, ok. How do management companies actually work? EnthusiastOwned said:
Well, the insurance company is Covea, the car is rented with Enterprise via Covea, all I paid was a £1 refundable deposit (for excess purposes). I was told I'll keep the hire car until my car is repaired to my satisfaction. As far as I'm concerned, my contract is with Covea not the bodyshop - I suppose if they want to play hardball I'll just get a management company involved, but i'm trying to keep costs down, it affects us all at the end of the day.
I'm in two minds though - Do I push for replacement panels and parts to ensure it's the best repair possible, or if the repair is filler and glue but looks great do I accept (knowing it'll likely start to show after a good few years)? I'll only be keeping the car for a couple of years now and trading in. It's a trade off between hassle now or likely hassle in the future.
Maybe a call to the manufacturer to ask them if they would recognise a repair done by a Fix Auto site that involved filler as sufficient enough to maintain any paint/body warranty?I'm in two minds though - Do I push for replacement panels and parts to ensure it's the best repair possible, or if the repair is filler and glue but looks great do I accept (knowing it'll likely start to show after a good few years)? I'll only be keeping the car for a couple of years now and trading in. It's a trade off between hassle now or likely hassle in the future.
Make sure you get your £1 back. They're well known to keep hold of these, nice little earner!
Not sure you have a contract as such, quite probably the only document (to date) that you have signed would be a rental agreement for the car and quite possibly it's too late now to get an accident management company involved.
Clearly I'm a little biased when it comes to these sorts of incidents as my focus is only on making sure that the innocent party, the claimant, gets the best deal for them. What I can tell you though is that after 3 years of investigation, the Competition and Markets Authority came to the conclusion that to have in place an effective, impartial after accident solution costs us all about £1.60 a year. The info. is freely available on the web. Personally i reckon that's very good value when you consider the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes, not to mention the amount of support sometimes legal support that claimant's can enjoy. It also provides for a level of competition that keeps insurers honest. If the insurers got their way, they would be the only ones providing any service and we would all be at their mercy so we must be careful what we wish for!
Hey OP, wife had similar happen to her. Third party admitted liability, and their insurance fixed her car. We reported to our insurance, who said that they didn't care as she wasn't in the car at the time, and did not want to know about it or add it to her record. They even confirmed same in an email as I was a little sceptical. Just FYI, WRT disclosing to your other insurers.
anniesdad said:
EnthusiastOwned said:
Well, the insurance company is Covea, the car is rented with Enterprise via Covea, all I paid was a £1 refundable deposit (for excess purposes). I was told I'll keep the hire car until my car is repaired to my satisfaction. As far as I'm concerned, my contract is with Covea not the bodyshop - I suppose if they want to play hardball I'll just get a management company involved, but i'm trying to keep costs down, it affects us all at the end of the day.
I'm in two minds though - Do I push for replacement panels and parts to ensure it's the best repair possible, or if the repair is filler and glue but looks great do I accept (knowing it'll likely start to show after a good few years)? I'll only be keeping the car for a couple of years now and trading in. It's a trade off between hassle now or likely hassle in the future.
Maybe a call to the manufacturer to ask them if they would recognise a repair done by a Fix Auto site that involved filler as sufficient enough to maintain any paint/body warranty?I'm in two minds though - Do I push for replacement panels and parts to ensure it's the best repair possible, or if the repair is filler and glue but looks great do I accept (knowing it'll likely start to show after a good few years)? I'll only be keeping the car for a couple of years now and trading in. It's a trade off between hassle now or likely hassle in the future.
Make sure you get your £1 back. They're well known to keep hold of these, nice little earner!
Not sure you have a contract as such, quite probably the only document (to date) that you have signed would be a rental agreement for the car and quite possibly it's too late now to get an accident management company involved.
Clearly I'm a little biased when it comes to these sorts of incidents as my focus is only on making sure that the innocent party, the claimant, gets the best deal for them. What I can tell you though is that after 3 years of investigation, the Competition and Markets Authority came to the conclusion that to have in place an effective, impartial after accident solution costs us all about £1.60 a year. The info. is freely available on the web. Personally i reckon that's very good value when you consider the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes, not to mention the amount of support sometimes legal support that claimant's can enjoy. It also provides for a level of competition that keeps insurers honest. If the insurers got their way, they would be the only ones providing any service and we would all be at their mercy so we must be careful what we wish for!
So, bit of an update.
I e-mailed Stevie G (anniesdad) earlier today and he promptly phoned me about the claim, it's too late to take it on (isn't hindsight is a wonderful thing?), but we had a long chat about it all and.. What a very helpful and nice chap, thank you Stevie I really appreciate the time you took out of your day to guide me in the right direct. Massive thumbs up, I owe you a pint.
Back to business... As it stands I've found out the approved bodyshop where the Leon is currently, isn't Seat UK approved but BS10125 Kite Mark Approved. Apparently on the original phone call with the company when I asked if this will affect my new cars warranty and the insures said no it's an approved bodyshop, they were refereeing to this BS Mark approval. According to them, I should have been more specific in my request. I'm no expert in the field so my terminology could have been incorrect but the context of my warranty question should have been pretty obvious, I can't help but feel they are screwing me on a technicality.
Anyway, the crux of the matter is: Seat UK have reiterated unless the car is sent to a Seat UK bodyshop, warranty may be affected. The insurers are saying the BS Mark approval means it won't affect my warranty. I'm inclined to believe Seat UK, after all, they are the ones who will be honouring the warranty should i have to claim a few years down the line, not the insurers.
The insurers have stated the car is half way through the repair already so the car, simply; isn't going anywhere for the time being. I've said I won't accept a repair which voids any manufactures warranty so they shouldn't continue for the time being. The insurers are stating they need some type of proof (letter) from Seat UK advising the warranty stance in order for the car to go elsewhere, which I've requested. A massive headache, I should have gone AMC, like i say; hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I e-mailed Stevie G (anniesdad) earlier today and he promptly phoned me about the claim, it's too late to take it on (isn't hindsight is a wonderful thing?), but we had a long chat about it all and.. What a very helpful and nice chap, thank you Stevie I really appreciate the time you took out of your day to guide me in the right direct. Massive thumbs up, I owe you a pint.
Back to business... As it stands I've found out the approved bodyshop where the Leon is currently, isn't Seat UK approved but BS10125 Kite Mark Approved. Apparently on the original phone call with the company when I asked if this will affect my new cars warranty and the insures said no it's an approved bodyshop, they were refereeing to this BS Mark approval. According to them, I should have been more specific in my request. I'm no expert in the field so my terminology could have been incorrect but the context of my warranty question should have been pretty obvious, I can't help but feel they are screwing me on a technicality.
Anyway, the crux of the matter is: Seat UK have reiterated unless the car is sent to a Seat UK bodyshop, warranty may be affected. The insurers are saying the BS Mark approval means it won't affect my warranty. I'm inclined to believe Seat UK, after all, they are the ones who will be honouring the warranty should i have to claim a few years down the line, not the insurers.
The insurers have stated the car is half way through the repair already so the car, simply; isn't going anywhere for the time being. I've said I won't accept a repair which voids any manufactures warranty so they shouldn't continue for the time being. The insurers are stating they need some type of proof (letter) from Seat UK advising the warranty stance in order for the car to go elsewhere, which I've requested. A massive headache, I should have gone AMC, like i say; hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I know it's still relatively new, but in respect of the warranty, Seat wouldn't honour a paint or corrosion claim on a panel that has been painted regardless - think about it, the warranty is against 'manufacturing defects' and if it has had paint, then anything that happens to that paint can't be as a result of a fault in manufacture I.e they warrant the paint they put on the car, not the paint someone else did.
As for worrying about the 12 year part - why? You said it was on a PCP and that now it had been damaged, you won't be keeping it, therefore you'll either be handing it back, or trading it against something else, so what happens in another 11 1/2 years time is largely irrelevant to you, it'll be someone else's problem - that may sound harsh, but it is true.
Having said all of that, I'd still want repaired at a Seat approved body shop, as it should at least then be repaired in accordance with Seat's standards, using the correct brand (or brands) of paint, body sealers etc...
As for worrying about the 12 year part - why? You said it was on a PCP and that now it had been damaged, you won't be keeping it, therefore you'll either be handing it back, or trading it against something else, so what happens in another 11 1/2 years time is largely irrelevant to you, it'll be someone else's problem - that may sound harsh, but it is true.
Having said all of that, I'd still want repaired at a Seat approved body shop, as it should at least then be repaired in accordance with Seat's standards, using the correct brand (or brands) of paint, body sealers etc...
Superhoop said:
I know it's still relatively new, but in respect of the warranty, Seat wouldn't honour a paint or corrosion claim on a panel that has been painted regardless - think about it, the warranty is against 'manufacturing defects' and if it has had paint, then anything that happens to that paint can't be as a result of a fault in manufacture I.e they warrant the paint they put on the car, not the paint someone else did.
As for worrying about the 12 year part - why? You said it was on a PCP and that now it had been damaged, you won't be keeping it, therefore you'll either be handing it back, or trading it against something else, so what happens in another 11 1/2 years time is largely irrelevant to you, it'll be someone else's problem - that may sound harsh, but it is true.
Having said all of that, I'd still want repaired at a Seat approved body shop, as it should at least then be repaired in accordance with Seat's standards, using the correct brand (or brands) of paint, body sealers etc...
According to Seat UK, using a Seat UK approved repairer won't invalidate any paint warranty. But you said it in your last paragraph, Seat approved should be in accordance to Seat standards. Piece of mind more than anything. This bodyshop won't even inspect the rear bumper for damage so that's a labour/costs saving red flag for me unfortunately. I only started getting worried when I started learning of cutting corners. As for worrying about the 12 year part - why? You said it was on a PCP and that now it had been damaged, you won't be keeping it, therefore you'll either be handing it back, or trading it against something else, so what happens in another 11 1/2 years time is largely irrelevant to you, it'll be someone else's problem - that may sound harsh, but it is true.
Having said all of that, I'd still want repaired at a Seat approved body shop, as it should at least then be repaired in accordance with Seat's standards, using the correct brand (or brands) of paint, body sealers etc...
It's naive to think an unapproved repair might not sting me when it comes time to sell; especially now Seat UK know. Will it effect value and re-sale? Who actually knows what information dealers are privy to and, what if a private buyer finds this thread in years to come then chases me for compensation? I know it's all what if's, but I don't think it's reasonable so the insurance company can save some money.
Bit of an update (I hate when threads stop without the final outcome).
I managed to get the car to a bodyshop with Seat Approval (same franchise, just a different branch). Only downside it was in Loughborough and too far away for them to deliver so I had to collect.
Anyhow, from their receipt of the car I received a phone call, they talked the talk so I was happy for them to proceed. A week or so goes by and the car was ready, went to collect and it was full of defects. Poor alignment, paint match was great but loads of dimples in the paint, over spray and the general paint defect. And they hadn't touched the rear bumper. They've rushed it. Oh well.
I marked all the affected areas and left the car with them for another go. A week later and the car was ready again. I went to collect and the repairs are better, but not perfect. Still has the odd dimple in the paint, the rear was better but had a minor chip, but most concerning is the alignment around the o/s headlight, it's not bad but something isn't right. They had to play with the bonnet then an there as it was sitting really low. I took the car anyway but made sure I had officially noted all the defects with the bodyshop, with proof. The car also drives to the right with the steering wheel straight forward, very minimal though.
Alignment:
DSC_0408 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0407 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0424 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0423 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0425 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
Paint defects:
DSC_0422 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0414 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0415 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0417 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
DSC_0411 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
Paint defects are really minor and hard to show in photo's (especially with the dirt on the car from the drive home). I admit that I am being VERY picky, but the cars as brand new as damnit. If it was 2-3 years old I would have accepted the repair no problem.
I've logged the defects with the insurer who's sending out an "independent" engineer for inspection. Which has been almost 2 weeks waiting so far. I've come to the realisation the cars never going to be right, it's potentially bent, but i'm still tied in to the finance for a another 2.5 years, gutted.
I managed to get the car to a bodyshop with Seat Approval (same franchise, just a different branch). Only downside it was in Loughborough and too far away for them to deliver so I had to collect.
Anyhow, from their receipt of the car I received a phone call, they talked the talk so I was happy for them to proceed. A week or so goes by and the car was ready, went to collect and it was full of defects. Poor alignment, paint match was great but loads of dimples in the paint, over spray and the general paint defect. And they hadn't touched the rear bumper. They've rushed it. Oh well.
I marked all the affected areas and left the car with them for another go. A week later and the car was ready again. I went to collect and the repairs are better, but not perfect. Still has the odd dimple in the paint, the rear was better but had a minor chip, but most concerning is the alignment around the o/s headlight, it's not bad but something isn't right. They had to play with the bonnet then an there as it was sitting really low. I took the car anyway but made sure I had officially noted all the defects with the bodyshop, with proof. The car also drives to the right with the steering wheel straight forward, very minimal though.
Alignment:
DSC_0408 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0407 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0424 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0423 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0425 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrPaint defects:
DSC_0422 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0414 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0415 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0417 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrDSC_0411 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrPaint defects are really minor and hard to show in photo's (especially with the dirt on the car from the drive home). I admit that I am being VERY picky, but the cars as brand new as damnit. If it was 2-3 years old I would have accepted the repair no problem.
I've logged the defects with the insurer who's sending out an "independent" engineer for inspection. Which has been almost 2 weeks waiting so far. I've come to the realisation the cars never going to be right, it's potentially bent, but i'm still tied in to the finance for a another 2.5 years, gutted.
I've read this thread a couple of times over the past months.... And each time I've thought "this is all a bit crap, all this hassle for something that is (for once) nothing to do with the owner."
My fisprst thought here was is it owned or leased, if it was leased then as long as it would satisfy the company on return then it'd do for me. If I owned it outright, I'd be a bit more picky.
As you've said though, you have it on a 3 year PCP with (prior) plans to buy it getting a nice, history known car. Sounds like you're tempted to hand it back now, but that goes against your plans.
Dunno what I'd do, as it's going to be more hassle to get it agreed to be redone (again).
All a bit crap really!
My fisprst thought here was is it owned or leased, if it was leased then as long as it would satisfy the company on return then it'd do for me. If I owned it outright, I'd be a bit more picky.
As you've said though, you have it on a 3 year PCP with (prior) plans to buy it getting a nice, history known car. Sounds like you're tempted to hand it back now, but that goes against your plans.
Dunno what I'd do, as it's going to be more hassle to get it agreed to be redone (again).
All a bit crap really!
Wow just read this whole thread... thanks for updating!
That's a real s
tter. I'm perhaps more typically British lol and don't like to complain so would have probably just accepted and walked away grumbling. Then again, I've never bought a brand new car so understand you're heavily invested into this.
Hope it all works out well(ish)
That's a real s
tter. I'm perhaps more typically British lol and don't like to complain so would have probably just accepted and walked away grumbling. Then again, I've never bought a brand new car so understand you're heavily invested into this.Hope it all works out well(ish)
Cheers guys. It's all a bit crap really. I don't want the car anymore, if i'm honest. I'm hoping the assessor comes, say's it's bent and writes it off - One can dream, right?
I love cars, I'm invested more than most; which i'm sure all you PH'ers can relate. This car, although it's great and still fantastic to drive (PH disclaimer - just wish it was quicker), I no longer love; which just goes my principles as a car enthusiast. I want to be invested and treat everything I do in life with respect and it's no difference with the car I drive, it's who I am. I know it's only emotion, but it's all a bit of a shame really.
I've looked into trading the car and the negative equity is.. Well as you expect on any 6 month old car, painful. So do I keep the car, love it a little less and drive it a little harder, which grates against ever fibre in my body btw. Or do I cut my losses and start again?
I like bonding with cars and creating memories, something which I've inherited from my love of cars - I'm sure you all remember that fantastic holiday as a kid and that car your dad was driving (1989 Bournemouth in a 1987 Cavalier SRi 130 for those that wanted to know). I was hoping when it came time to move on, i'd do so with a lump in my throat and a thank you for the memories; now it'll only be a thank god and good riddance.
My head is saying stick with it until I have at least equal equity and move on. My heart and heavy right foot says sell my weekend toy (which I never use anyway) to cover my equity (and then some) and get a Golf R or S3. Man maths is starting to win in this department anyway, plus I've already negotiated with the Mrs and she's agreed! Winner!
The engineer is coming Monday, fingers crossed and wish me luck.
I love cars, I'm invested more than most; which i'm sure all you PH'ers can relate. This car, although it's great and still fantastic to drive (PH disclaimer - just wish it was quicker), I no longer love; which just goes my principles as a car enthusiast. I want to be invested and treat everything I do in life with respect and it's no difference with the car I drive, it's who I am. I know it's only emotion, but it's all a bit of a shame really.
I've looked into trading the car and the negative equity is.. Well as you expect on any 6 month old car, painful. So do I keep the car, love it a little less and drive it a little harder, which grates against ever fibre in my body btw. Or do I cut my losses and start again?
I like bonding with cars and creating memories, something which I've inherited from my love of cars - I'm sure you all remember that fantastic holiday as a kid and that car your dad was driving (1989 Bournemouth in a 1987 Cavalier SRi 130 for those that wanted to know). I was hoping when it came time to move on, i'd do so with a lump in my throat and a thank you for the memories; now it'll only be a thank god and good riddance.
My head is saying stick with it until I have at least equal equity and move on. My heart and heavy right foot says sell my weekend toy (which I never use anyway) to cover my equity (and then some) and get a Golf R or S3. Man maths is starting to win in this department anyway, plus I've already negotiated with the Mrs and she's agreed! Winner!
The engineer is coming Monday, fingers crossed and wish me luck.
Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Saturday 23 July 19:49
Was the seat repairer approved by the insurance company ? You might find they was their hands of it as you chose the repairer and didn't go with their approved body shop.
I had the same issue with a puma many years ago when I wanted it to go to a ford dealer, from that point on I will always go with the approved repairer unless it's minor and I can use someone that's good. Ours was inspected by an assessor too.
As for filler .. Most cars have it, nothing wrong with it in small areas. Have you ever tried claiming on a manufactures warranty ? It's a con.
I had the same issue with a puma many years ago when I wanted it to go to a ford dealer, from that point on I will always go with the approved repairer unless it's minor and I can use someone that's good. Ours was inspected by an assessor too.
As for filler .. Most cars have it, nothing wrong with it in small areas. Have you ever tried claiming on a manufactures warranty ? It's a con.
Was the seat repairer approved by the insurance company ? You might find they was their hands of it as you chose the repairer and didn't go with their approved body shop.
I had the same issue with a puma many years ago when I wanted it to go to a ford dealer, from that point on I will always go with the approved repairer unless it's minor and I can use someone that's good. Ours was inspected by an assessor too.
As for filler .. Most cars have it, nothing wrong with it in small areas. Have you ever tried claiming on a manufactures warranty ? It's a con.
I had the same issue with a puma many years ago when I wanted it to go to a ford dealer, from that point on I will always go with the approved repairer unless it's minor and I can use someone that's good. Ours was inspected by an assessor too.
As for filler .. Most cars have it, nothing wrong with it in small areas. Have you ever tried claiming on a manufactures warranty ? It's a con.
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