Urgent Insurance advice - Carpark smash
Discussion
Rich,
As it's the other party's fault that put you in this mess, your initial claim is against him to rectify the problem. He in turn can bring in his liability insurers to indemnify him against your claim. In practice most claimant's circumvent the third party and go straight to the indemnifying insurers to resolve their claim as the insurer is more likely to have the financial capability to resolve the issue. I'm afraid the other party involved himself the minute he left his handbrake off. If you were to issue against him he would be instructed to pass the court documentation to his insurers (you may even wish to suggest to him that he does this). They are obliged to deal with it. That's what you want really. You don't want him satisfying your claim, you want his insurers to do that. The insurers will not want you to continue an action against their policyholder. Imagine you securing a CCJ against their policyholder when he is fully indemnified for what happened...
It's a means to an end. By all means go through the motions and you may in the first instance wish to demand the cost from him and confirm impending court action, so that he can pass this correspondence off to his insurers to see your intent.
For anticipated hire car costs get an estimate of the length of time the car will be off the road and get an online quote but I would say add on another weeks hire at least as a contingency.
S
As it's the other party's fault that put you in this mess, your initial claim is against him to rectify the problem. He in turn can bring in his liability insurers to indemnify him against your claim. In practice most claimant's circumvent the third party and go straight to the indemnifying insurers to resolve their claim as the insurer is more likely to have the financial capability to resolve the issue. I'm afraid the other party involved himself the minute he left his handbrake off. If you were to issue against him he would be instructed to pass the court documentation to his insurers (you may even wish to suggest to him that he does this). They are obliged to deal with it. That's what you want really. You don't want him satisfying your claim, you want his insurers to do that. The insurers will not want you to continue an action against their policyholder. Imagine you securing a CCJ against their policyholder when he is fully indemnified for what happened...
It's a means to an end. By all means go through the motions and you may in the first instance wish to demand the cost from him and confirm impending court action, so that he can pass this correspondence off to his insurers to see your intent.
For anticipated hire car costs get an estimate of the length of time the car will be off the road and get an online quote but I would say add on another weeks hire at least as a contingency.
S
edo said:
Nice outcome. You may not remember but you helped my wife after a dozy bint scraped round the back of her SLK at a junction. She denied it, but funny how her insurers changed their minds after you got involved and we could show her Polo paint on our bumper and I could see silver of the SLK on hers after going round to her house!
Hi, I'm sorry I'm not sure of the case? If you would care to PM me the name the claim was under I'll be able to refresh my memory from our case notes. Really pleased that we could be of assistance though. Always happy to help out wherever possible. S
saaby93 said:
Remind me again if this quote is from SEAT approved or somewhere else?
Do SEAT have engineers (sic) that come out and inspect?
This new quote is from a SEAT Approved garage who is also a main dealer (the repair was from SEAT approved bodyshop who is independent to the dealer network). Do SEAT have engineers (sic) that come out and inspect?
SEAT have no authority really as their dealers et al are all independent from SEAT UK and the SEAT network all operate independently of each other. So my issue is with Fix Auto, not the SEAT network. All SEAT can do is complain on my behalf to Fix Auto but have no real power - Their only power is that they'll log issues like this and take into account when it comes to renew the garage approved status. Useless.
EnthusiastOwned said:
This new quote is from a SEAT Approved garage who is also a main dealer (the repair was from SEAT approved bodyshop who is independent to the dealer network).
SEAT have no authority really as their dealers et al are all independent from SEAT UK and the SEAT network all operate independently of each other. So my issue is with Fix Auto, not the SEAT network. All SEAT can do is complain on my behalf to Fix Auto but have no real power - Their only power is that they'll log issues like this and take into account when it comes to renew the garage approved status. Useless.
If they do it could add more weight but sounds like youve gone far enough in getting a decent quote.SEAT have no authority really as their dealers et al are all independent from SEAT UK and the SEAT network all operate independently of each other. So my issue is with Fix Auto, not the SEAT network. All SEAT can do is complain on my behalf to Fix Auto but have no real power - Their only power is that they'll log issues like this and take into account when it comes to renew the garage approved status. Useless.
By the Way your issue isnt directly with the initial bodyshop - your issue is with the Third Party,
their insurer comes next and theyre ones who have arranged the bodyshop on behalf of the TP.
See what Anniesdad says ^^^^
I can only sympathise with you, I've been arsed about by insurance companies and still ended up about £1k out of pocket after I got t bones on a roundabout and the other driver played silly buggers. Took 11 months to get repairs started, court case to recover costs and I had to pay some of the repairs myself after a terrible job by the bodyshop and the settlement figure coming up short of repairs after the insurance took their "cut" (for what I have no idea, they took it at source after the court ruling).
They are lying, thieving b
d and don't trust them as far as you can throw them. Watch out for the insurance company engineer, be present when he inspects ideally. The one on my claim apparently inspected my car and found the repairs to be "excessive". Thing is, he never even viewed the car, just wrote up the report the insurance company wanted. One the date he apparently inspected it, it was a Sunday. My car (in a garage of my choice) was locked inside the unit and up on a lift 10ft in the air. The garage said they hadn't ever let anyone in so he either broke in to do it or is lying.
Hope you get it sorted soon, they'll try and screw you over at every turn. Shocking that this is a legal requirement yet run by private companies who look to scam people at every opportunity.
They are lying, thieving b
d and don't trust them as far as you can throw them. Watch out for the insurance company engineer, be present when he inspects ideally. The one on my claim apparently inspected my car and found the repairs to be "excessive". Thing is, he never even viewed the car, just wrote up the report the insurance company wanted. One the date he apparently inspected it, it was a Sunday. My car (in a garage of my choice) was locked inside the unit and up on a lift 10ft in the air. The garage said they hadn't ever let anyone in so he either broke in to do it or is lying.Hope you get it sorted soon, they'll try and screw you over at every turn. Shocking that this is a legal requirement yet run by private companies who look to scam people at every opportunity.
anniesdad said:
Rich,
As it's the other party's fault that put you in this mess, your initial claim is against him to rectify the problem. He in turn can bring in his liability insurers to indemnify him against your claim. In practice most claimant's circumvent the third party and go straight to the indemnifying insurers to resolve their claim as the insurer is more likely to have the financial capability to resolve the issue. I'm afraid the other party involved himself the minute he left his handbrake off. If you were to issue against him he would be instructed to pass the court documentation to his insurers (you may even wish to suggest to him that he does this). They are obliged to deal with it. That's what you want really. You don't want him satisfying your claim, you want his insurers to do that. The insurers will not want you to continue an action against their policyholder. Imagine you securing a CCJ against their policyholder when he is fully indemnified for what happened...
It's a means to an end. By all means go through the motions and you may in the first instance wish to demand the cost from him and confirm impending court action, so that he can pass this correspondence off to his insurers to see your intent.
For anticipated hire car costs get an estimate of the length of time the car will be off the road and get an online quote but I would say add on another weeks hire at least as a contingency.
S
Ok, brilliant. You are REALLY helping me out here, I can't thank you enough. As it's the other party's fault that put you in this mess, your initial claim is against him to rectify the problem. He in turn can bring in his liability insurers to indemnify him against your claim. In practice most claimant's circumvent the third party and go straight to the indemnifying insurers to resolve their claim as the insurer is more likely to have the financial capability to resolve the issue. I'm afraid the other party involved himself the minute he left his handbrake off. If you were to issue against him he would be instructed to pass the court documentation to his insurers (you may even wish to suggest to him that he does this). They are obliged to deal with it. That's what you want really. You don't want him satisfying your claim, you want his insurers to do that. The insurers will not want you to continue an action against their policyholder. Imagine you securing a CCJ against their policyholder when he is fully indemnified for what happened...
It's a means to an end. By all means go through the motions and you may in the first instance wish to demand the cost from him and confirm impending court action, so that he can pass this correspondence off to his insurers to see your intent.
For anticipated hire car costs get an estimate of the length of time the car will be off the road and get an online quote but I would say add on another weeks hire at least as a contingency.
S
I have spoken with the other driver this morning, turns out I know of him (he owns a coffee shop I use!). Real nice chap and I've explained I'm about to go legal so covering all bases before I do. I've explained to him my situation and asked him to get onto his insurers. He agrees it's not good enough and will push from his end.
I think if I do go legal i'll explain to him in person what's what before I do - He's been amicable and very accommodating so far, I'm obliged to do the same - No point being an ass about it all. If it turns nasty, so be it, but until it does.
I think at least 2-3 weeks work for a full respray. I'll check.
Thanks again.
DottyMR2 said:
I can only sympathise with you, I've been arsed about by insurance companies and still ended up about £1k out of pocket after I got t bones on a roundabout and the other driver played silly buggers. Took 11 months to get repairs started, court case to recover costs and I had to pay some of the repairs myself after a terrible job by the bodyshop and the settlement figure coming up short of repairs after the insurance took their "cut" (for what I have no idea, they took it at source after the court ruling).
They are lying, thieving bd and don't trust them as far as you can throw them. Watch out for the insurance company engineer, be present when he inspects ideally. The one on my claim apparently inspected my car and found the repairs to be "excessive". Thing is, he never even viewed the car, just wrote up the report the insurance company wanted. One the date he apparently inspected it, it was a Sunday. My car (in a garage of my choice) was locked inside the unit and up on a lift 10ft in the air. The garage said they hadn't ever let anyone in so he either broke in to do it or is lying.
Hope you get it sorted soon, they'll try and screw you over at every turn. Shocking that this is a legal requirement yet run by private companies who look to scam people at every opportunity.
Hmm, that worries me. I've refused him viewing. But I suppose nothing stopping him just turning up to look. They are lying, thieving b
d and don't trust them as far as you can throw them. Watch out for the insurance company engineer, be present when he inspects ideally. The one on my claim apparently inspected my car and found the repairs to be "excessive". Thing is, he never even viewed the car, just wrote up the report the insurance company wanted. One the date he apparently inspected it, it was a Sunday. My car (in a garage of my choice) was locked inside the unit and up on a lift 10ft in the air. The garage said they hadn't ever let anyone in so he either broke in to do it or is lying.Hope you get it sorted soon, they'll try and screw you over at every turn. Shocking that this is a legal requirement yet run by private companies who look to scam people at every opportunity.
EnthusiastOwned said:
Ok, brilliant. You are REALLY helping me out here, I can't thank you enough.
I have spoken with the other driver this morning, turns out I know of him (he owns a coffee shop I use!). Real nice chap and I've explained I'm about to go legal so covering all bases before I do. I've explained to him my situation and asked him to get onto his insurers. He agrees it's not good enough and will push from his end.
I think if I do go legal i'll explain to him in person what's what before I do - He's been amicable and very accommodating so far, I'm obliged to do the same - No point being an ass about it all. If it turns nasty, so be it, but until it does.
I think at least 2-3 weeks work for a full respray. I'll check.
Thanks again.
Absolutely, get him on side. He needs to understand it's procedural, he might be the key to you resolving this. Trust me his insurers won't want him involved causing them nuisance but the more heat they feel the better for you. I have spoken with the other driver this morning, turns out I know of him (he owns a coffee shop I use!). Real nice chap and I've explained I'm about to go legal so covering all bases before I do. I've explained to him my situation and asked him to get onto his insurers. He agrees it's not good enough and will push from his end.
I think if I do go legal i'll explain to him in person what's what before I do - He's been amicable and very accommodating so far, I'm obliged to do the same - No point being an ass about it all. If it turns nasty, so be it, but until it does.
I think at least 2-3 weeks work for a full respray. I'll check.
Thanks again.
Sue for 4 weeks hire to be on the safe side you can always return any surplus money that you are awarded.
EnthusiastOwned said:
Ok, brilliant. You are REALLY helping me out here, I can't thank you enough.
I have spoken with the other driver this morning, turns out I know of him (he owns a coffee shop I use!). Real nice chap and I've explained I'm about to go legal so covering all bases before I do. I've explained to him my situation and asked him to get onto his insurers. He agrees it's not good enough and will push from his end.
I think if I do go legal i'll explain to him in person what's what before I do - He's been amicable and very accommodating so far, I'm obliged to do the same - No point being an ass about it all. If it turns nasty, so be it, but until it does.
So it doesnt 'get personal' you're sometimes better of trying to get a helpful fellow involved to try to sort it all out on your behalfI have spoken with the other driver this morning, turns out I know of him (he owns a coffee shop I use!). Real nice chap and I've explained I'm about to go legal so covering all bases before I do. I've explained to him my situation and asked him to get onto his insurers. He agrees it's not good enough and will push from his end.
I think if I do go legal i'll explain to him in person what's what before I do - He's been amicable and very accommodating so far, I'm obliged to do the same - No point being an ass about it all. If it turns nasty, so be it, but until it does.
anniesdad said:
Absolutely, get him on side. He needs to understand it's procedural, he might be the key to you resolving this. Trust me his insurers won't want him involved causing them nuisance but the more heat they feel the better for you.
Sue for 4 weeks hire to be on the safe side you can always return any surplus money that you are awarded.
Ok, I'll get x4 weeks costs to be safe. The bodyshop did say 2-3 weeks work. Sue for 4 weeks hire to be on the safe side you can always return any surplus money that you are awarded.
Another question regarding costs. I know what costs to date I have (time, phone calls and mileage), but what about expected costs - Surely I'll have costs during the claim process? Do I estimate or put in after? Do I take it on the chin? I'm not trying to take the piss by the way, only want what's due.
Also, I've spoke to the bodyshop and asked for the quote to be amended as it was missing the damaged windscreen seals. He's added and sent the new quote, but he did mention anything smaller can be added as and when - What happens if halfway through the work the cost balloons? Is that the risk I take?
Finally, if I notify section 152 to the other driver, does that mean I have to issue court proceedings to him (if it gets that far?)
saaby93 said:
So it doesnt 'get personal' you're sometimes better of trying to get a helpful fellow involved to try to sort it all out on your behalf
Yep, that's my thought too. I can just forsee this is going to get messy - Not everyone likes to play ball. saaby93 said:
I wonder if we're talking about the same helpful fellow who may be someones dad
Ahhh, I'm with you. Sorry, I was talking about the other party. Unfortunately I was too slow to get in touch with Anniesdad - I'd already proceeded with the repair to the point where it was too late for him to get involved. I wish I had known about him sooner.
Ok, so yesterday I received a reply from my CEO e-mail. A manager of some has got in touch stating he has requested details from their claim managers and also the independent engineer and would get back to me today.
I've just had a phone call with their results. Long story short their in house engineers and the independent engineer believe the car will need a partial respray, you've guessed it, estimated at half the price of my quote. They also aren't accepting my costs unless I can prove they are a quantifiable loss of earnings (taking time off work etc) - They won't reimburse me for my time. I said let's not discuss my costs now as the priority is the car repair for now.
They are going to send me an e-mail with a justification from their engineers and independent so I can go to some bodyshops to re-quote. Not helpful really as only 1 out of 4 will do the work and the 1 which will, isn't interested; I think he'll say no this time around.
I've still not seen the original independent report but I have requested it, more than once. I sense foul play as the independent engineer was singing a very different tune when I last spoke to him.
I'm not sure i'm prepared to run around getting quotes again, but I do feel I'll need my own report at this stage.
I've just had a phone call with their results. Long story short their in house engineers and the independent engineer believe the car will need a partial respray, you've guessed it, estimated at half the price of my quote. They also aren't accepting my costs unless I can prove they are a quantifiable loss of earnings (taking time off work etc) - They won't reimburse me for my time. I said let's not discuss my costs now as the priority is the car repair for now.
They are going to send me an e-mail with a justification from their engineers and independent so I can go to some bodyshops to re-quote. Not helpful really as only 1 out of 4 will do the work and the 1 which will, isn't interested; I think he'll say no this time around.
I've still not seen the original independent report but I have requested it, more than once. I sense foul play as the independent engineer was singing a very different tune when I last spoke to him.
I'm not sure i'm prepared to run around getting quotes again, but I do feel I'll need my own report at this stage.
Morning chaps!
So after yesterdays low ball offer I requested the insurance estimated quote and also the original report so I can figure out if their offer is justified. I can see how they've got to it, but it's wrong on a few levels.
The original report is quite good, not biased and i'm comfortable with it being truly independent. It does however miss some of the minor defects, most not being a concern as the panels are mentioned elsewhere needing rectification - It would have been nice for these defects to be mentioned as it builds the bigger picture. However the O/s rear quarter is completely dismissed (not mentioned at all), the rear quarter looks to have dirty watermarks under the clearcoat. The independent engineer spent some time trying to rub the marks off and came to the conclusion it appears to be under the lacquer (he mentioned it could be some strong cleaner which wasn't rinsed off properly so it's sank/eat into the clear coat). Either way, this is one of the larger issue on the car so i'm very surprised it's not in the report.
20160911_155551 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
The report clearly states that every panel repaired is to unacceptable standard and that workmanship is very poor. It states the quote received (my bodyshop) is the only method the chap is prepared to undertake due to the current extent of the problem, both actual and perceived. It also states i'm going to be very difficult to satisfy. I'm a little miffed as the document appears to be making me out to be a tough customer.
Onto the estimated costs, this was also created by the very same independent engineer. It's missing various rectifications required as highlighted by his own report. I'm still not sure how someone who isn't a bodyshop can be used as an estimated quote, where have his cost's come from? I suppose it's very easy for someone not actually doing the work to cut costs back to the bone.
So anyway, this all explains the low ball offer.
I then sent an e-mail back to the insurer with my findings and said without doubt, I would not shop around to fix their issue with the aim of saving them money. The bodyshop has clearly stated the only work he is prepared to undertake and I will not risk loosing him as the only approved bodyshop within an hour of me. I said I would not accept any less than what it'll take to repair the car. I also offered them a settlement for a fast resolution (in regards to my costs - made it clear it was a one time offer), but first thing Monday morning I'll be servicing notice to their indemnified party for the whole shabang. Which I plan to do.
If I don't have a response by this time next week looks like it's court.
So after yesterdays low ball offer I requested the insurance estimated quote and also the original report so I can figure out if their offer is justified. I can see how they've got to it, but it's wrong on a few levels.
The original report is quite good, not biased and i'm comfortable with it being truly independent. It does however miss some of the minor defects, most not being a concern as the panels are mentioned elsewhere needing rectification - It would have been nice for these defects to be mentioned as it builds the bigger picture. However the O/s rear quarter is completely dismissed (not mentioned at all), the rear quarter looks to have dirty watermarks under the clearcoat. The independent engineer spent some time trying to rub the marks off and came to the conclusion it appears to be under the lacquer (he mentioned it could be some strong cleaner which wasn't rinsed off properly so it's sank/eat into the clear coat). Either way, this is one of the larger issue on the car so i'm very surprised it's not in the report.
20160911_155551 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrThe report clearly states that every panel repaired is to unacceptable standard and that workmanship is very poor. It states the quote received (my bodyshop) is the only method the chap is prepared to undertake due to the current extent of the problem, both actual and perceived. It also states i'm going to be very difficult to satisfy. I'm a little miffed as the document appears to be making me out to be a tough customer.
Onto the estimated costs, this was also created by the very same independent engineer. It's missing various rectifications required as highlighted by his own report. I'm still not sure how someone who isn't a bodyshop can be used as an estimated quote, where have his cost's come from? I suppose it's very easy for someone not actually doing the work to cut costs back to the bone.
So anyway, this all explains the low ball offer.
I then sent an e-mail back to the insurer with my findings and said without doubt, I would not shop around to fix their issue with the aim of saving them money. The bodyshop has clearly stated the only work he is prepared to undertake and I will not risk loosing him as the only approved bodyshop within an hour of me. I said I would not accept any less than what it'll take to repair the car. I also offered them a settlement for a fast resolution (in regards to my costs - made it clear it was a one time offer), but first thing Monday morning I'll be servicing notice to their indemnified party for the whole shabang. Which I plan to do.
If I don't have a response by this time next week looks like it's court.
Messy situation OP. On one hand, even new cars are not perfect, they will have paint defects and colour mismatches (not everything is painted at the same time in the same facility - it just depends on how hard you look). And on the other hand, some of the defects your car has are pretty poor and they just show a significant lack of care.
If you are really worried about long term integrity, I'm not sure I'd be happy with a 1 year old car that has had a "full re-spray"... I assume we're not talking about a full strip down, glass, trim, harnesses, drive train out ? So even this is going to be a major compromise. It's a difficult call but in general, I'd rather a repair was as none invasive as possible (I'd rather small areas of thin filler than having panels cut off).
You're in a tricky spot and I really hope you get a repair that you're happy with even though I can't see this car ever coming up to your standards now. Therefore, I hope you find a solution that helps you with the depricition hit you would take in changing the car early, as I think that is the only happy outcome. Best of luck with it.
If you are really worried about long term integrity, I'm not sure I'd be happy with a 1 year old car that has had a "full re-spray"... I assume we're not talking about a full strip down, glass, trim, harnesses, drive train out ? So even this is going to be a major compromise. It's a difficult call but in general, I'd rather a repair was as none invasive as possible (I'd rather small areas of thin filler than having panels cut off).
You're in a tricky spot and I really hope you get a repair that you're happy with even though I can't see this car ever coming up to your standards now. Therefore, I hope you find a solution that helps you with the depricition hit you would take in changing the car early, as I think that is the only happy outcome. Best of luck with it.
MoelyCrio said:
Regarding being a difficult customer - you are.
Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
Bit harsh.Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
OP has a car that's covered 3500 miles, is pretty new & it got damaged through no fault of his own.
Also, its on a PCP or whatever so if he sent it back in the state it's currently, by sounds of the repair quality it's going to look even worse by the time his contract ends so he will get hit with a repair cost from them.
Not very fair is it?
I return lease cars on a regular basis & the lengths some inspectors go to to find issues amaze me sometimes.
Can't believe the trouble you're having OP. Good luck with the outcome.
Edited by Jim AK on Saturday 8th October 09:27
MoelyCrio said:
Regarding being a difficult customer - you are.
Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
Dont be a tMost people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
t.OP, keep going they are hoping to wear you down.
MoelyCrio said:
Regarding being a difficult customer - you are.
Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
You're right, I know most car owners wouldn't have noticed or cared. Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
thecremeegg said:
I'd have got my insurer involved by now. Nothing like the cost of a management company forcing the insurer to act.
I hope it all works out for you!
My insurance are aware, but I didn't want to instruct. Bit late now I think. Lesson learnt. I hope it all works out for you!
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