Urgent Insurance advice - Carpark smash
Discussion
anniesdad said:
Hi Rich,
I'm sorry to read about your ongoing problems. Dealing with the third party insurers directly and having their "approved" repairers repair the vehicle sadly is not the best course of action to take for the vehicle owner. I know that this is little help to you right now but I think it's important others know the truth of the matter, instead of offering advice to "just let the third party insurers handle it". This happens all the time, less exacting people let shoddy workmanship go to the benefit of the paying insurer and repairer.
You mentioned the at-fault insurers have instructed an engineer to inspect the vehicle post-repair and that hasn't happened two weeks later? Is that right? have the insurers said anything about your issues being with the repairer and not with them? Have you instructed the insurers not to release any monies to the repairer? Have you considered getting an estimate from an independent shop/mobile repairer, paying for the work to be done yourself and demanding payment from the repairers/insurers (possible moneyclaim online action)?
Regards
Steve
Thanks Steve, I was actually considering contacting you for advice - So it's great to see you're still taking interest in this tread. I agree whole heartily with your advice and I didn't realise at the time I could have chosen my own garage. I was led by the insurers (looking back, it was spiel) to use their own garages. Stay strong and don't use them is my only advice. The insurers will have cut the cost down to the bone, the bodyshops are on a very tight budget and time constraint, meaning their business model is numbers, in and out as fast as possible and quality is low down on the priority list. I'm sorry to read about your ongoing problems. Dealing with the third party insurers directly and having their "approved" repairers repair the vehicle sadly is not the best course of action to take for the vehicle owner. I know that this is little help to you right now but I think it's important others know the truth of the matter, instead of offering advice to "just let the third party insurers handle it". This happens all the time, less exacting people let shoddy workmanship go to the benefit of the paying insurer and repairer.
You mentioned the at-fault insurers have instructed an engineer to inspect the vehicle post-repair and that hasn't happened two weeks later? Is that right? have the insurers said anything about your issues being with the repairer and not with them? Have you instructed the insurers not to release any monies to the repairer? Have you considered getting an estimate from an independent shop/mobile repairer, paying for the work to be done yourself and demanding payment from the repairers/insurers (possible moneyclaim online action)?
Regards
Steve
Ok, to answer your questions - The insurers originally instructed an engineer (IMCS - If that rings a bell?) who came out to look at my car after the 1st rectification (prior to the 2nd rectification, which has just happened). The engineer took notes, agreed it was a mess who then forwarded the agreed works to the insurers and bodyshop. The bodyshop then rectified as per engineer notes and returned the car to me. The insurers have confirmed the engineers did not review the car post the engineer agreed rectification. So basically the bodyshop did the work instructed by the engineer report and no one checked the quality afterwards. Normal process apparently (sounds silly to me).
I've instructed the insurers not to release funds to the bodyshop until this claim is finalised, but they have stated it's their issue to discuss and arrange and not for me to worry about, I've advised I want it on file anyway but it was fairly clear it's their choice of bodyshop so their problem. The insurers have 100% agreed that the car will not go back to that bodyshop and I can choose any of my own choice. However, it is my choice and must take care with my own due diligence - If the repair is not satisfactory the insurers will not take responsibility and it will be my responsibility to take action with the bodyshop for rectification. Fair enough. I am allowed a hire car but must be through the insurer (enterprise) for the agreed repair term, it will be returned once repaired and if rectification works are required, it is on me to organise a hire car (so I will arrange with the bodyshop prior to taking them on).
I've contacted a few bodyshops, but because the car is so new and on finance I want Seat approved which limits me some what. My local dealer does not want anything to do with the repair due to liability reasons, fair enough; I've had a chat with a local-ish dealer (Hayseldons, Barnsely) who seems very interested and deal with a lot of rectification work (quite a few from other Authorised repairers too). I'm going to visit them on Saturday for a quote and chat but they seem good over the phone where they only deal with VAG Group of cars, not on time or budget constraints and quality is their number one priority.
I have a few concerns of my own. I'm expecting the rectification works to cost a fortune. Main dealer, potentially a 60-80% respray, the dealer may refuse to use the same panels, damaged alloys and seals. The insurer may refuse the quote or even write the car off (which I would happily accept if i'm honest). Thoughts?
edo said:
Glad you are able to take it to a place of your choice. I'd seriously consider adding up the time spent and billing the insurer for this. Is it your insurer or the 3rd party insurer you are dealing with?
Is that even an option? I have spent countless hours on this. Kinda feels greedy. I'm claiming off the 3rd party. EnthusiastOwned said:
edo said:
Glad you are able to take it to a place of your choice. I'd seriously consider adding up the time spent and billing the insurer for this. Is it your insurer or the 3rd party insurer you are dealing with?
Is that even an option? I have spent countless hours on this. Kinda feels greedy. I'm claiming off the 3rd party. 
tty repairer and that you plan to claim. Might buck their ideas up.Bit of an update.
Engineer came to view the car. This time an older chap, more professional and a little more stern (or realistic depending on point of view). He said a lot of the things were not right but the odd little indent or pinhole that you have to really bend down and look for can't be rectified as all repairs will have a certain amount of acceptable defects. He mentioned all new cars have around 3 small defects which is acceptable. Either way he said the car needs a respray, realistically.
I've taken the car to three garages so far, two won't do the work. Too much for them, liability reasons and rectifications are a pain in the arse. Fair enough. The third garage although eager at first, when looking at the car could only say fkin 'ell at every panel. They seem reluctant now but I am awaiting a quote - He said FULL respray only and all four wheels, roof and all. He said by the time you've masked this bit here, that bit there; it's easier doing the whole lot - That way nothing is missed and there will be no masking marks or blending. I'm now reluctant as I don't really want the car to go somewhere unless they want to do the job. And a full respray terrifies me. All this for a front end smash. The more work done the more likely for issues. I can see where this is heading.
On that note, I'm busy as hell at the moment, I can't be chasing around all the time, I feel like I need to either put this to bed or put it on hold till after Xmas. And what if I fail to find someone who will take it on? Do you think if I get a reasonable quote that the insurance accepts, they'll pay me, close the case and let me deal with it in my own time? Risk is mine as I may never get it sorted, but that's where we are. In my head, worst case no one fixes is but i'll have cash to balance any negative equity come time to trade in. Thoughts?
Engineer came to view the car. This time an older chap, more professional and a little more stern (or realistic depending on point of view). He said a lot of the things were not right but the odd little indent or pinhole that you have to really bend down and look for can't be rectified as all repairs will have a certain amount of acceptable defects. He mentioned all new cars have around 3 small defects which is acceptable. Either way he said the car needs a respray, realistically.
I've taken the car to three garages so far, two won't do the work. Too much for them, liability reasons and rectifications are a pain in the arse. Fair enough. The third garage although eager at first, when looking at the car could only say f
kin 'ell at every panel. They seem reluctant now but I am awaiting a quote - He said FULL respray only and all four wheels, roof and all. He said by the time you've masked this bit here, that bit there; it's easier doing the whole lot - That way nothing is missed and there will be no masking marks or blending. I'm now reluctant as I don't really want the car to go somewhere unless they want to do the job. And a full respray terrifies me. All this for a front end smash. The more work done the more likely for issues. I can see where this is heading. On that note, I'm busy as hell at the moment, I can't be chasing around all the time, I feel like I need to either put this to bed or put it on hold till after Xmas. And what if I fail to find someone who will take it on? Do you think if I get a reasonable quote that the insurance accepts, they'll pay me, close the case and let me deal with it in my own time? Risk is mine as I may never get it sorted, but that's where we are. In my head, worst case no one fixes is but i'll have cash to balance any negative equity come time to trade in. Thoughts?
Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Thursday 22 September 20:54
This whole saga sucks. Personally, if I got to this stage, I'd just leave it now and take the financial hit when you hand the car back. I think that going for a full car respray is a lot of hassle and you still don't know how it will end up.
Just cut your losses and put all this behind you. Make doubly sure that your insurance is not impacted in any way.
Just cut your losses and put all this behind you. Make doubly sure that your insurance is not impacted in any way.
Sheepshanks said:
Could you get it fixed at a SEAT approved bodyshop - or have you already tried that?
At least that way you shouldn't have any trouble if you want to return the car at the end of the PCP.
It was a SEAT approved bodyshop who's got it to this stage At least that way you shouldn't have any trouble if you want to return the car at the end of the PCP.
Unsure what they'll say, on one argument its a Seat approved bodyshop. On the other it's my responsibility and duty of care work is done to good standard. And in my experience all these dealers and approvals don't help much, they are all independent of each other so not their problem what f
k up someone else does, same network or not. It'll be a headache come trade in, it either needs to be right or I need to be financially subsidised - Issue is, it;s only guess work what that may be. TazLondon said:
This whole saga sucks. Personally, if I got to this stage, I'd just leave it now and take the financial hit when you hand the car back. I think that going for a full car respray is a lot of hassle and you still don't know how it will end up.
Just cut your losses and put all this behind you. Make doubly sure that your insurance is not impacted in any way.
This is my current thinking. With a full respray, especially one that no one really wants to do, it's only going to get worse (more than likely). But if I don't sort it now with the insurers it's only going to be more difficult as time passes. I think I'll have a chat with the insurers when I get the quote, see if we can come to an agreement. Just cut your losses and put all this behind you. Make doubly sure that your insurance is not impacted in any way.
Have you explored seeing what deal you could get part-ex'ing this one for a new one?
No end of colleagues have traded in a 1.5-2 year old car for a new one with a similar or in some cases lower monthly amount, extending the term back to the original length.
I.e., assuming you have 1.5 years of a 3 year term, taking a new car and starting a fresh 3 year term.
Ok overall you'll be paying for the 'car' longer, but it'd get you into a new never damaged (to your knowledge) car.
No end of colleagues have traded in a 1.5-2 year old car for a new one with a similar or in some cases lower monthly amount, extending the term back to the original length.
I.e., assuming you have 1.5 years of a 3 year term, taking a new car and starting a fresh 3 year term.
Ok overall you'll be paying for the 'car' longer, but it'd get you into a new never damaged (to your knowledge) car.
Talk frankly to the 3rd party insurer.
Explain you are sick and tired of spending time on something that was not your fault. Explain you cant spend more time on it.
Explain that 2 bodyshops have refused to rectify the substandard work and that only one will touch it and the quote is x.
See if you can get a part exchange value on the car - try to establish what the poor work is reducing it by, plus all you time. If this figure is less than the above the insurer may pay you to go away. You have the money in the pocket to change in your own time and not be out of pocket..
Failing that ask the insurer to buy your car off you for what it would be worth if perfect as it was before their clients car rolled into it.
Explain you are sick and tired of spending time on something that was not your fault. Explain you cant spend more time on it.
Explain that 2 bodyshops have refused to rectify the substandard work and that only one will touch it and the quote is x.
See if you can get a part exchange value on the car - try to establish what the poor work is reducing it by, plus all you time. If this figure is less than the above the insurer may pay you to go away. You have the money in the pocket to change in your own time and not be out of pocket..
Failing that ask the insurer to buy your car off you for what it would be worth if perfect as it was before their clients car rolled into it.
edo said:
Talk frankly to the 3rd party insurer.
Explain you are sick and tired of spending time on something that was not your fault. Explain you cant spend more time on it.
Explain that 2 bodyshops have refused to rectify the substandard work and that only one will touch it and the quote is x.
See if you can get a part exchange value on the car - try to establish what the poor work is reducing it by, plus all you time. If this figure is less than the above the insurer may pay you to go away. You have the money in the pocket to change in your own time and not be out of pocket..
Failing that ask the insurer to buy your car off you for what it would be worth if perfect as it was before their clients car rolled into it.
been there got ticket Explain you are sick and tired of spending time on something that was not your fault. Explain you cant spend more time on it.
Explain that 2 bodyshops have refused to rectify the substandard work and that only one will touch it and the quote is x.
See if you can get a part exchange value on the car - try to establish what the poor work is reducing it by, plus all you time. If this figure is less than the above the insurer may pay you to go away. You have the money in the pocket to change in your own time and not be out of pocket..
Failing that ask the insurer to buy your car off you for what it would be worth if perfect as it was before their clients car rolled into it.
At this stage TP insurer decides its cheaper to pay out, take the car to auction than try to undo the paintwork.
I'd seriously be considering looking outside of the dealer approved range, or, how about any other VAG approved bodyshop? Bit of a longshot but would an Audi repairers or VW for example be able to do it without breaking the warranty?
Whereabouts are you OP?
What exactly is it that they've done to the other panels that means they need a respray? If it's the marring then that's to be expected but will polish out (not by the bodyshop if you want it done right). Obviously bad paint with stuff under lacquer definitely won't rectify with a polish. I'm just confused how they managed to ruin doors etc.
I had my Z4 done at a BMW bodyshop years ago and it came out marred everywhere from a bad wash. A quick chat with the insurers later and I had a cheque to get a pro-detailed re-polish the whole car
Whereabouts are you OP?
What exactly is it that they've done to the other panels that means they need a respray? If it's the marring then that's to be expected but will polish out (not by the bodyshop if you want it done right). Obviously bad paint with stuff under lacquer definitely won't rectify with a polish. I'm just confused how they managed to ruin doors etc.
I had my Z4 done at a BMW bodyshop years ago and it came out marred everywhere from a bad wash. A quick chat with the insurers later and I had a cheque to get a pro-detailed re-polish the whole car
Having just read this through, its just a prime example of how much of a complete faff the whole insurance company thing can be. Even more so in this case where OP has not done anything other than parked his car safely away in a corner of a car park.
We all pay through the nose for our premiums and are rewarded by dreadful service and standards of repair.
Oh, OP....Just one more thing
What in the blue fk are those on your feet?
We all pay through the nose for our premiums and are rewarded by dreadful service and standards of repair.
Oh, OP....Just one more thing
What in the blue f
k are those on your feet?When I had a no fault hit on my Focus I contacted my own insurers, rejected their repairers and took it to a Ford-branded bodyshop. They were great and replaced all the relevant panels, a scuffed tyre sidewall meant a new tyre etc. They knew how to document everything and get it agreed by the insurers. I couldn't imagine an insurance company would have given their own repairer free-reign like that.
The other party's insurers were desperate to uplift it to some bodyshop 40 miles away and give me a hire car, which I didn't need. The Ford dealership offered me one anyway.
The other party's insurers were desperate to uplift it to some bodyshop 40 miles away and give me a hire car, which I didn't need. The Ford dealership offered me one anyway.
chr15b said:
Have you explored seeing what deal you could get part-ex'ing this one for a new one?
No end of colleagues have traded in a 1.5-2 year old car for a new one with a similar or in some cases lower monthly amount, extending the term back to the original length.
I.e., assuming you have 1.5 years of a 3 year term, taking a new car and starting a fresh 3 year term.
Ok overall you'll be paying for the 'car' longer, but it'd get you into a new never damaged (to your knowledge) car.
Yes, currently have negative equity even with a top price. Car is too new. Need to keep it for another year before I get anywhere near equal equity. Plus i'm at least £2k down with substandard repair from the garages I've spoken to, some won't even take it.No end of colleagues have traded in a 1.5-2 year old car for a new one with a similar or in some cases lower monthly amount, extending the term back to the original length.
I.e., assuming you have 1.5 years of a 3 year term, taking a new car and starting a fresh 3 year term.
Ok overall you'll be paying for the 'car' longer, but it'd get you into a new never damaged (to your knowledge) car.
Issue is, I would like to start again due to the repairs (I would have kept it for the full term otherwise, like the car a lot), but not prepared to pay off negative equity.
saaby93 said:
edo said:
Talk frankly to the 3rd party insurer.
Explain you are sick and tired of spending time on something that was not your fault. Explain you cant spend more time on it.
Explain that 2 bodyshops have refused to rectify the substandard work and that only one will touch it and the quote is x.
See if you can get a part exchange value on the car - try to establish what the poor work is reducing it by, plus all you time. If this figure is less than the above the insurer may pay you to go away. You have the money in the pocket to change in your own time and not be out of pocket..
Failing that ask the insurer to buy your car off you for what it would be worth if perfect as it was before their clients car rolled into it.
been there got ticket Explain you are sick and tired of spending time on something that was not your fault. Explain you cant spend more time on it.
Explain that 2 bodyshops have refused to rectify the substandard work and that only one will touch it and the quote is x.
See if you can get a part exchange value on the car - try to establish what the poor work is reducing it by, plus all you time. If this figure is less than the above the insurer may pay you to go away. You have the money in the pocket to change in your own time and not be out of pocket..
Failing that ask the insurer to buy your car off you for what it would be worth if perfect as it was before their clients car rolled into it.
At this stage TP insurer decides its cheaper to pay out, take the car to auction than try to undo the paintwork.
How do I calculate cost, my time and how do I justify it?
Blue Oval84 said:
I'd seriously be considering looking outside of the dealer approved range, or, how about any other VAG approved bodyshop? Bit of a longshot but would an Audi repairers or VW for example be able to do it without breaking the warranty?
Whereabouts are you OP?
What exactly is it that they've done to the other panels that means they need a respray? If it's the marring then that's to be expected but will polish out (not by the bodyshop if you want it done right). Obviously bad paint with stuff under lacquer definitely won't rectify with a polish. I'm just confused how they managed to ruin doors etc.
I had my Z4 done at a BMW bodyshop years ago and it came out marred everywhere from a bad wash. A quick chat with the insurers later and I had a cheque to get a pro-detailed re-polish the whole car
Sheffield. Any VAG bodyshop can repair which will not affect warranty. I want dealer network as they prioritise quality, non dealer network usually work to time and cost, and don't specialise in the brand.Whereabouts are you OP?
What exactly is it that they've done to the other panels that means they need a respray? If it's the marring then that's to be expected but will polish out (not by the bodyshop if you want it done right). Obviously bad paint with stuff under lacquer definitely won't rectify with a polish. I'm just confused how they managed to ruin doors etc.
I had my Z4 done at a BMW bodyshop years ago and it came out marred everywhere from a bad wash. A quick chat with the insurers later and I had a cheque to get a pro-detailed re-polish the whole car
Marring can be polished out but is inconsequential as basically front end needs a full respray for other issues, bumper, bonnet and both wings. Front of both doors are scuffed we believe due to sanding of the wings overlapping and need doing but once again, this ares needs blending anyway. Both sills need doing because of overspray on them as do the A-Pillars so blending pushing into doors, rear quarters and roof. Rear bumper needs painting and o/s rear quarter. N/s rear quarter needs blending as will boot as a result. By the time all this is done it's easier doing the whole lot rather than masking, blending and being selective. Both Engineer and Bodyshop said this (without any prompts). As the bodyshop said, head in hands and f
kin' 'Ell. Everytime a mistake is made, the rectification works stretch a little further. I'm expecting a £4-6k quote. Any less and I'm concerned quite frankly.
lord trumpton said:
Having just read this through, its just a prime example of how much of a complete faff the whole insurance company thing can be. Even more so in this case where OP has not done anything other than parked his car safely away in a corner of a car park.
We all pay through the nose for our premiums and are rewarded by dreadful service and standards of repair.
Oh, OP....Just one more thing
What in the blue fk are those on your feet?
Tell me about it, terrible right? A prime example why to NEVER accept the insurers bodyshop, all this because someone wanted to save a few hundred quid. Ended costs thousands more. Buy cheap, buy twice for twice the price once again. We all pay through the nose for our premiums and are rewarded by dreadful service and standards of repair.
Oh, OP....Just one more thing
What in the blue f
k are those on your feet?Havaianas. If you've not tried them, jump on it.
jamei303 said:
When I had a no fault hit on my Focus I contacted my own insurers, rejected their repairers and took it to a Ford-branded bodyshop. They were great and replaced all the relevant panels, a scuffed tyre sidewall meant a new tyre etc. They knew how to document everything and get it agreed by the insurers. I couldn't imagine an insurance company would have given their own repairer free-reign like that.
The other party's insurers were desperate to uplift it to some bodyshop 40 miles away and give me a hire car, which I didn't need. The Ford dealership offered me one anyway.
Thats the issue, I accepted the insurers bodyshop due to being approved. I was wrong. The other party's insurers were desperate to uplift it to some bodyshop 40 miles away and give me a hire car, which I didn't need. The Ford dealership offered me one anyway.
edo said:
Your time is easy - take your weekly salary, divide by standard working week hours.
Ahh, easy. I can justify a good £500 at a minimum then. rb5er said:
Your car deserves to be impounded and crushed for wearing that sort of footwear. The hit and runner is a hero in this situation.
Did that sound cooler in your head then it came across? Or are you just a dhead in general? Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Sunday 25th September 10:42
I've received my quote. It's as expected really. At this point I don't want to divulge figures as I've had that frank conversation with the insurers. I've asked for payment in lieu or the other option is repair, my time and costs, their time, their expenses, engineer expenses plus hire car costs - Which'll add a couple of grand, at least. They sounded eager at the prospect. Fingers crossed.
I'm taking a big risk but I want to put this to bed now. If they agree my options are repair in my own time, keep the car and deal with it later or trade in. Repair comes with risk as there is no guarantee it'll be any better (more likely to be worse). Keeping and dealing with at a later date is a risk as poor bodywork deteriorates over time (in my experience). Trade in will bite me due to equity and a very poor valuation, but it's one known hit and I start fresh - Seems like the best option to me. Cut and run effectively.
I've been to a few dealers looking at trade in's to assess viability and the valuation for my car is, well, eye watering. The payment in lieu I've asked for will just about get me out of this car, depending where I go; but either way I'm going to have to negotiate the value which'll put me in a weak position when negotiating a deal on the new car. It's going to cost me what ever solution I find.
I was tempted with a Golf R as the deals at the moment are insane, but the whole experience has really put me off the VW Group - Their network is st an they have no power over them. Sad, as I've been a VAG fanboy since I was a kid. I'm off to BMW today to see what they can do for me, I think I'll wear my Havaianas; people seem to like them
I'm taking a big risk but I want to put this to bed now. If they agree my options are repair in my own time, keep the car and deal with it later or trade in. Repair comes with risk as there is no guarantee it'll be any better (more likely to be worse). Keeping and dealing with at a later date is a risk as poor bodywork deteriorates over time (in my experience). Trade in will bite me due to equity and a very poor valuation, but it's one known hit and I start fresh - Seems like the best option to me. Cut and run effectively.
I've been to a few dealers looking at trade in's to assess viability and the valuation for my car is, well, eye watering. The payment in lieu I've asked for will just about get me out of this car, depending where I go; but either way I'm going to have to negotiate the value which'll put me in a weak position when negotiating a deal on the new car. It's going to cost me what ever solution I find.
I was tempted with a Golf R as the deals at the moment are insane, but the whole experience has really put me off the VW Group - Their network is s
t an they have no power over them. Sad, as I've been a VAG fanboy since I was a kid. I'm off to BMW today to see what they can do for me, I think I'll wear my Havaianas; people seem to like them Personally I would say 90% of that could be sorted out by a good detailer, wet sanding, 3 full days for a skilled detailer would probably cost a heck of a lot less than a full respray also.
The pin holes and debris under the paint not really possible but minor enough IMHO.
The rest of it, should be possible to fix without any more paint.
The lip on the bonnet might also be a pain to sort. If the detailer knows a skilled smart repair guy you might be able to sort a few more of the issues at the same time.
Also, if it makes you feel any better there are almost always signs of a respray no matter how good the body shop is. There are shops who will do the perfect job but you are looking at £10k+.
The pin holes and debris under the paint not really possible but minor enough IMHO.
The rest of it, should be possible to fix without any more paint.
The lip on the bonnet might also be a pain to sort. If the detailer knows a skilled smart repair guy you might be able to sort a few more of the issues at the same time.
Also, if it makes you feel any better there are almost always signs of a respray no matter how good the body shop is. There are shops who will do the perfect job but you are looking at £10k+.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff