RE: 10 questions TVR's new bosses must answer
Discussion
This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbO_CaGJXZ4 with a lightweight carbon chassis by GMD, and a 450hp+ Cosworth V8. I would find it hard to believe there is not a market, or that it will be in the same camp as a GT3 or M3.
I think no one will argue that there is some kind of market for these cars, but is it a 2000-cars-a-year market? Remains to be seen I guess.
I asked earlier in the thread (and it was a serious question) but got no response, is selling 2000 cars a year from the factory a realistic thing? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick there, and there will be traditional dealers?
It's just that Lotus seem to be producing decent cars at the moment but aren't selling many because the 'mainstream' barely knows they exist. They are improving this with more dealers, and it seems to be working, but won't TVR suffer for the same reasons? 2000 cars a year suggests they are at least aiming for some of the 'mainstream' customers who would have otherwise bought a Porsche.
I asked earlier in the thread (and it was a serious question) but got no response, is selling 2000 cars a year from the factory a realistic thing? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick there, and there will be traditional dealers?
It's just that Lotus seem to be producing decent cars at the moment but aren't selling many because the 'mainstream' barely knows they exist. They are improving this with more dealers, and it seems to be working, but won't TVR suffer for the same reasons? 2000 cars a year suggests they are at least aiming for some of the 'mainstream' customers who would have otherwise bought a Porsche.
leglessAlex said:
...I asked earlier in the thread (and it was a serious question) but got no response, is selling 2000 cars a year from the factory a realistic thing? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick there, and there will be traditional dealers?...
I believe they will need half a dozen dealers. RichB said:
I believe they will need half a dozen dealers.
McLaren has that number, and they've actually got a factory. TVR claims there will be 500 launch edition cars. But at launch, how many cars will actually exist and at what speed can they build them in Gordon Murray's shed? It's not obvious to me that this thing can get started other than by direct sales to "enthusiasts" who will do the running about. After all, if loads of deposits are already in the bag you don't need a sales network to shift those cars.
Routine servicing sounds like a job for your local Ford dealer. But is that the experience a £100k customer is looking for?
The arithmetic is straightforward. Let's assume "launch" lasts a year. If you want to sell 500 launch edition cars in that year you have to build 10 cars a week. On a 5 day week that's two cars a day. I'd say that's impossible without some sort of proper manufacturing facility. People spending £100k aren't going to want something that's been thrown together in a shed. Lotus are pretty good these days and IMO that would be the absolute bare minimum standard acceptable.
This sentence popped out from the Autocar review of the new Boxter 718:
"In the mid-1990s, if you wanted a semi-affordable sports car with a beefy engine, you’d have probably had to buy a TVR. Then, all at once, the BMW Z3, Mercedes-Benz SLK and Porsche Boxster turned up."
Given the new Boxster starts at 40k (or 50k for the S), if the pricing of the new TVR is ambitious they may run into the problem in that once the core set of fans have bought them, who do you sell them to next?
"In the mid-1990s, if you wanted a semi-affordable sports car with a beefy engine, you’d have probably had to buy a TVR. Then, all at once, the BMW Z3, Mercedes-Benz SLK and Porsche Boxster turned up."
Given the new Boxster starts at 40k (or 50k for the S), if the pricing of the new TVR is ambitious they may run into the problem in that once the core set of fans have bought them, who do you sell them to next?
KTF said:
V8 aside, if you wanted something that wasnt 'mainstream' designed by people with history in the area then you can get a Zenos E10 R with a Tech and Weather Pack for under £50k.
Would you still pay double for the TVR?
No one buys the Zenos because you can get other cars for half as much. Would you still pay double for the TVR?
....or just buy a Ford Mustang V8 for £35k and throw away as many heavy bits as you can unbolt with your Halfords tool kit. Then buy yourself a brand new Exige S as well and you'll still have spent less money than buying one of Mr Edgar's cars.
But seriously, this new TVR is going to have to be something special to get customers parting with their money. I hope they can achieve it - "brand revival" after a decade on the rocks and into a competitive market-place is a big ask.
But seriously, this new TVR is going to have to be something special to get customers parting with their money. I hope they can achieve it - "brand revival" after a decade on the rocks and into a competitive market-place is a big ask.
Ozzie Osmond said:
....or just buy a Ford Mustang V8 for £35k and throw away as many heavy bits as you can unbolt with your Halfords tool kit. Then buy yourself a brand new Exige S as well and you'll still have spent less money than buying one of Mr Edgar's cars.
But seriously, this new TVR is going to have to be something special to get customers parting with their money. I hope they can achieve it - "brand revival" after a decade on the rocks and into a competitive market-place is a big ask.
I think the new Mustang is a superb option for someone not wanting to throw big money at the TVR. Not sure the Exige fits, it's too different a market. Ultimately it is really a track orientated vehicle. The new TVR is a GT with sports car capabilities. It's definitely targeting other premium GTs and has some competitive advantages over the mainstream. But seriously, this new TVR is going to have to be something special to get customers parting with their money. I hope they can achieve it - "brand revival" after a decade on the rocks and into a competitive market-place is a big ask.
We live in a world where taxis can cost £100k so I'm not sure the money angle is as vital as some make out. I think how it looks will be the true key.
DonkeyApple said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
....or just buy a Ford Mustang V8 for £35k and throw away as many heavy bits as you can unbolt with your Halfords tool kit. Then buy yourself a brand new Exige S as well and you'll still have spent less money than buying one of Mr Edgar's cars.
But seriously, this new TVR is going to have to be something special to get customers parting with their money. I hope they can achieve it - "brand revival" after a decade on the rocks and into a competitive market-place is a big ask.
I think the new Mustang is a superb option for someone not wanting to throw big money at the TVR. Not sure the Exige fits, it's too different a market. Ultimately it is really a track orientated vehicle. The new TVR is a GT with sports car capabilities. It's definitely targeting other premium GTs and has some competitive advantages over the mainstream. But seriously, this new TVR is going to have to be something special to get customers parting with their money. I hope they can achieve it - "brand revival" after a decade on the rocks and into a competitive market-place is a big ask.
We live in a world where taxis can cost £100k so I'm not sure the money angle is as vital as some make out. I think how it looks will be the true key.
Max_Torque said:
Looking good is critical, for initial sales, but it must both look good and BE good for continued volume after the first "Freshness" has worn off. The big OE's refresh and replace models on very short lifespans these days to keep capturing the "latest best thing" market. TVR can't possibly hope to compete with that....
But the outer panels are non structural and so completely different designs can be delivered almost at whim. Same with the roof structure so convertibles are easy. It even looks like someone could return their car after a few years and have completely new outer panels fitted etc. I'm pretty sure that o e of the many potential hurdles isn't going to be changing the look as and when needed. And under the skin many firms retain their chassis for very long periods of time and certainly that seems to be another premis of iStream. Along with the ability to lengthen, shorten and the really interesting bit, change the structural material without changing tooling.
I think the project looks like it might work because of the fluidity of the process. Much lower initial investment than stamping out frames etc and much more fluid for introducing changes and enhancements.
Max_Torque said:
The big OE's refresh and replace models on very short lifespans these days to keep capturing the "latest best thing" market.
... which is the very thing that makes the cost of owning a £100K white goods motor incomparable with a £100K specialist car. Legislation and the numbers/convenience/gadget-driven nature of the general market tends to make things worse for enthusiast drivers with each new generation, anyway... See the fall from grace of the Boxster in its latest iteration for illustration. I'm sure the masses will continue to snap them up, anyway, but that's beside the point.
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