RE: 10 questions TVR's new bosses must answer
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Max_Torque said:
Looking good is critical, for initial sales, but it must both look good and BE good for continued volume after the first "Freshness" has worn off. The big OE's refresh and replace models on very short lifespans these days to keep capturing the "latest best thing" market. TVR can't possibly hope to compete with that....
But the outer panels are non structural and so completely different designs can be delivered almost at whim. Same with the roof structure so convertibles are easy. It even looks like someone could return their car after a few years and have completely new outer panels fitted etc. I'm pretty sure that o e of the many potential hurdles isn't going to be changing the look as and when needed. And under the skin many firms retain their chassis for very long periods of time and certainly that seems to be another premis of iStream. Along with the ability to lengthen, shorten and the really interesting bit, change the structural material without changing tooling.
I think the project looks like it might work because of the fluidity of the process. Much lower initial investment than stamping out frames etc and much more fluid for introducing changes and enhancements.
(interestingly iStream is really not very different to AML and Lotus's production architecture, (which of course both stem from similar origins) and both are scaleable and to some degree volume agnostic)
Max_Torque said:
DonkeyApple said:
Max_Torque said:
Looking good is critical, for initial sales, but it must both look good and BE good for continued volume after the first "Freshness" has worn off. The big OE's refresh and replace models on very short lifespans these days to keep capturing the "latest best thing" market. TVR can't possibly hope to compete with that....
But the outer panels are non structural and so completely different designs can be delivered almost at whim. Same with the roof structure so convertibles are easy. It even looks like someone could return their car after a few years and have completely new outer panels fitted etc. I'm pretty sure that o e of the many potential hurdles isn't going to be changing the look as and when needed. And under the skin many firms retain their chassis for very long periods of time and certainly that seems to be another premis of iStream. Along with the ability to lengthen, shorten and the really interesting bit, change the structural material without changing tooling.
I think the project looks like it might work because of the fluidity of the process. Much lower initial investment than stamping out frames etc and much more fluid for introducing changes and enhancements.
(interestingly iStream is really not very different to AML and Lotus's production architecture, (which of course both stem from similar origins) and both are scaleable and to some degree volume agnostic)
DonkeyApple said:
But then if existing manufacturers are not succumbing to this issue why is it such an issue? Clearly there are companies not having to rush out new models every five minutes to appease the borrow and spend mania of the exciting new world?
Large OE's don't succum because they can afford to have full time design studios full of people in square glasses and roll neck jumpers sitting around designing the "new" car, pretty much immediately after finishing the last one!And i think you'll find that ALL OEs have very short product life cycles these days! The days of cars having 15, 10 or sometimes even 5 years model plans is long gone!
I think TVR were particularly apt at designing shiny topside parts and outshining large OEMs come any next Birmingham Motor Show... that was the cheap and easy part. I fail to see the problem here, it's actually the very thing that small-time manufacturers that don't need to invest in tooling for a couple gazillion body pressings, have a huge advantage at.
900T-R said:
I think TVR were particularly apt at designing shiny topside parts and outshining large OEMs come any next Birmingham Motor Show... that was the cheap and easy part. I fail to see the problem here, it's actually the very thing that small-time manufacturers that don't need to invest in tooling for a couple gazillion body pressings, have a huge advantage at.
I wonder if perhaps you've not noticed the quality in basic surfacing even on the cheapest/crappest cars these days. Park an older car, say early 2000's next to a current one, and it's immediately obvious! (and the precision of things like fit/finish and shut lines etc, especially around complex lighting arrangements / vents etcThe Crack Fox said:
It's looking like the circuit of Wales won't happen now, due to lack of funding from any sources other than fantasist local government. So, where are TVR going to build their factory now?
Apologies for the bad karma, I'd love this to happen, but c'mon...
Was the Circuit of Wales going to provide anything free of charge/provide funding? I thought it was just a cool place to have it, they should be able to have the factory somewhere else?Apologies for the bad karma, I'd love this to happen, but c'mon...
The Crack Fox said:
So, where are TVR going to build their factory now?
Perhaps in Northern Ireland ... in joint venture with Lotus ... followed by a trip to Los Angeles in search of additional finance ... then a key role in "Back to the Future part 4 - Return to Oblivion".No, I expect it will begin as a low volume, high cost operation and stay that way unless there's sustained/growing demand after the launch excitement has worn off. Maybe something like the Ariel assembly shop at Crewkerne, with Murray's outfit doing the bodywork. Get a toe in the water and see if there's a solid market before scaling up.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Get a toe in the water and see if there's a solid market before scaling up.
Good point about comparing 2000 to 2016: how much has the situation changed!It's rose tinted glasses to think customers / market have the same desire and look at 'a 2nd car' with a decent fun factor. Again: Porsche saw just that mid 80s and is picking the fruit for decades.
The Crack Fox said:
It's looking like the circuit of Wales won't happen now, due to lack of funding from any sources other than fantasist local government. So, where are TVR going to build their factory now?
Apologies for the bad karma, I'd love this to happen, but c'mon...
Circuit of wales was a nicety, but you do know they've just submitted a new financial plan. It's not be shelved yet.Apologies for the bad karma, I'd love this to happen, but c'mon...
The TVR factory will be in Ebbw Vale and is not dependant on the circuit.
Max_Torque said:
I wonder if perhaps you've not noticed the quality in basic surfacing even on the cheapest/crappest cars these days. Park an older car, say early 2000's next to a current one, and it's immediately obvious! (and the precision of things like fit/finish and shut lines etc, especially around complex lighting arrangements / vents etc
Talk to my brother the master detailer. He'll tell you all about the deterioration in paint finish quality of even expensive cars since the early 2000s. Oh, I park my 2004 daily car next to current ones daily and can see nothing of the kind, just that the newer cars tend to be bulkier, uglier and have the sort of Christmas lighting that the inhabitants of 'traveler' camps here would dismiss as 'a bit gaudy'... Materials away from the first line of sight tend to have got a cheaper, more brittle quality over the years, too.
Recently found an old edition of Autocar from 1992 in the attic and there is a feature on the scale up of the Mclaren F1 from clay model to production car, the resource they needed to throw at it and the time needed to do so for such a limited production run clearly shows the funding thats needed for such operations.
Yes the F1 was a bespoke product, but apart from the engine so would this alleged TVR be as well.
So far TVR have a bought an old name, claimed to have taken a load of deposits, have put a Coyote engine on Cosworths dyno maybe once, chatted to Gordon Murray, placed something resembling a car under a cover and ..............
Take away the first part and would anyone on here have actually parted with any money yet?
If they are genuine then why not be up front and say its a mammoth task, and that they are chipping away slowly at the project and some time in the future they will have a prototype to show the world, indicate a more accurate budget figure (Any basic business plan would need to identify that) and see if there is in fact a market.
Companies like Mclaren/Ferrari/Porsche/Aston Martin can play the smoke and mirrors game as they are a known entity that will come up with the goods, a new start up needs to be up front to gain support and trust. That interview did the opposite, they seem to think simply owning the name will steamroller the project through.
Yes the F1 was a bespoke product, but apart from the engine so would this alleged TVR be as well.
So far TVR have a bought an old name, claimed to have taken a load of deposits, have put a Coyote engine on Cosworths dyno maybe once, chatted to Gordon Murray, placed something resembling a car under a cover and ..............
Take away the first part and would anyone on here have actually parted with any money yet?
If they are genuine then why not be up front and say its a mammoth task, and that they are chipping away slowly at the project and some time in the future they will have a prototype to show the world, indicate a more accurate budget figure (Any basic business plan would need to identify that) and see if there is in fact a market.
Companies like Mclaren/Ferrari/Porsche/Aston Martin can play the smoke and mirrors game as they are a known entity that will come up with the goods, a new start up needs to be up front to gain support and trust. That interview did the opposite, they seem to think simply owning the name will steamroller the project through.
Edited by PAUL500 on Wednesday 22 June 08:52
The Crack Fox said:
Byker28i said:
The Crack Fox said:
It's looking like the circuit of Wales won't happen now, due to lack of funding from any sources other than fantasist local government. So, where are TVR going to build their factory now?
Apologies for the bad karma, I'd love this to happen, but c'mon...
Circuit of wales was a nicety, but you do know they've just submitted a new financial plan. It's not be shelved yet.Apologies for the bad karma, I'd love this to happen, but c'mon...
The TVR factory will be in Ebbw Vale and is not dependant on the circuit.
It's a wonderful place to grow sheep, but cars? C'mon!
http://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/04/quarter-of-a-billion...
And just announced - Dodge is ending production of the Viper.
Fiat Chrysler will end production of the Dodge Viper in 2017.
The end of the line for the V-10 sports car was buried in the contract proposal for the next four years between Fiat Chrysler and the Union of Automotive Workers. And as Automotive News reported earlier this week, the draft contract specified no new vehicle production at FCA's Conner Avenue plant in Detroit, where Vipers are built by hand by a team of roughly 80 employees.
It's a sad end for the Viper, which went into production in 1992 after wowing fans as a concept car at the North American International Auto Show in 1989. Updated in 1996, 2003, and 2008, the Viper met a temporary end in 2010, a victim of Chrysler's bankruptcy. Thankfully, the current Viper returned in 2013, but it's been somewhat slow-selling—Automotive News reports that just 503 Vipers were sold this year as of September, with only 760 sold in all of 2014.
Fiat Chrysler will end production of the Dodge Viper in 2017.
The end of the line for the V-10 sports car was buried in the contract proposal for the next four years between Fiat Chrysler and the Union of Automotive Workers. And as Automotive News reported earlier this week, the draft contract specified no new vehicle production at FCA's Conner Avenue plant in Detroit, where Vipers are built by hand by a team of roughly 80 employees.
It's a sad end for the Viper, which went into production in 1992 after wowing fans as a concept car at the North American International Auto Show in 1989. Updated in 1996, 2003, and 2008, the Viper met a temporary end in 2010, a victim of Chrysler's bankruptcy. Thankfully, the current Viper returned in 2013, but it's been somewhat slow-selling—Automotive News reports that just 503 Vipers were sold this year as of September, with only 760 sold in all of 2014.
vtecyo said:
Is that because Morgan haven't spent anything on R&D since the 2nd world war?
Even so, they're doing oak-kay, but I'm stumped as to how to be honest. Last time I saw one was by the beech about 4 years ago. The owners were getting something out of the trunk.
How on earth did they manage to fit a trunk in the boot of a Morgan ?Even so, they're doing oak-kay, but I'm stumped as to how to be honest. Last time I saw one was by the beech about 4 years ago. The owners were getting something out of the trunk.
Auson said:
vtecyo said:
Is that because Morgan haven't spent anything on R&D since the 2nd world war?
Even so, they're doing oak-kay, but I'm stumped as to how to be honest. Last time I saw one was by the beech about 4 years ago. The owners were getting something out of the trunk.
How on earth did they manage to fit a trunk in the boot of a Morgan ?Even so, they're doing oak-kay, but I'm stumped as to how to be honest. Last time I saw one was by the beech about 4 years ago. The owners were getting something out of the trunk.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff