RE: Why Audi needs a diesel R8: PH Blog

[900T-R]

Someone on here accused commenters who questioned the sanity of someone suggesting diesel power in an R8 as 'luddites'.

Um, really?

Performance diesels were 'the thing' around the corner back in 2000. Coincidentally I was trawling through some old Evo issues, in quite a few of which the editorials predicted the rise of the diesel-powered performance car.

That was a long time ago.

Now we have a legacy of diesel cars that are quickly becoming as welcome in built up areas as a Washington Post journo at a Trump rally. My next daily car will be LPG powered as I cannot afford to write off cars at a mere 10 or so years old. That's a 40.000 euro car that depreciates like a stone until Ground Zero has been reached, not a 200.000 euro car that assumes a significant retained collector/enthusiast value 10-20 years down the line..

I genuinely checked the date on that editorial, expecting it to be c. 2006 and assuming that someone had stretched the boundaries of thread resurrection.

The time of the diesel car has come and gone. Now who's the luddite?

[308mate]

Dan, your entire argument seems to revolve around merely "standing out" or "owning the space". Owning what space? The Diesel supercar space? Unsurprisingly, there isn't really a scramble for that. The TDi Lemans car was borne out of a need for fuel economy and therefore less pitstops. Your average R8 V10+ buyer has entirely different set of values. They include: a nice sound when firing along A roads or joining the motorway, not stinking like a fuel tanker when you leave the petrol station, not sounding like next doors LR Defender at idle etc. They care not a jot for fuel economy, especially given how few miles most of them cover under each owner. If you're hovering over the phone waiting for Audi's marketing department to ring with a job offer, don't.

[R E S T E C P]

Mound Dawg said:

R E S T E C P said:

What's so bad about a diesel TT...?

n...ow...t

If you cut out bits from the middle of my post and quote the other bits of out context then it makes no sense

[phib]

I can see how this would work and I would probably buy one.

I do loads of miles (35k a year) and I have ended up with an A6 BiTdi Avant which is c.350bhp and 4x4. I don't need an estate for going to work in but it was pretty much the best tool for the job imho.

I used a number of 911's, a Granturismo and 7 series BMW's for this over the last 10 years but something fun that has good MPG would be quite a benefit.

However I suspect the market for this is pretty limited

Phib

[drivin_me_nuts]

So, I can see it now...

A PH SS somewhere in a wonky carpark near a shinny propellered headquarters...


In the background, the noise of the AMG fanboys straining to hear the sound of the 65AMG in all it's derevations slithering around a track at 4/10 capability and 10/10 traction...

In the distance... wait... is that a.. 911 RS. Yep..

Oh... the sound of a murcielago?
st... there's a huracan!
A GT40 - no way! Yes, way!!!!

Is that... is that the R8 diesel? fk that, there's the new Golf with it's six exhaust pipes and 3 minute ring time.

Where did the Audi go?


It doesn't matter how capable it is, in the world of the V12 petrol supercar, it would be the runt. Audi aren't fools and they already know this. It would take away from the whole 'halo' car thing. Massively.

[ORD]

phib said:

I can see how this would work and I would probably buy one.

I do loads of miles (35k a year) and I have ended up with an A6 BiTdi Avant which is c.350bhp and 4x4. I don't need an estate for going to work in but it was pretty much the best tool for the job imho.

I used a number of 911's, a Granturismo and 7 series BMW's for this over the last 10 years but something fun that has good MPG would be quite a benefit.

However I suspect the market for this is pretty limited

Phib

I suspect the market is....you. Why anyone would want to do 35k (presumably mostly motorway) miles in a R8 is beyond me!

[phib]

ORD said:

I suspect the market is....you. Why anyone would want to do 35k (presumably mostly motorway) miles in a R8 is beyond me!

Quite possibly just me !!!

As to why .. well I am a car nut and doing it in an A6 is just so dull !!! About 50% motorway and 50% fast A road / dual carriage way

Phib

[Jarama s]

Audi really should, must build a Diesel R8, Not because it would be easy on the fuel, 40mpg would be normal, but because of the lbs/ft, it would be sensationally quick and super responsive, its a fabulous motor and much easier to package than the originally planned V10 Diesel. I wanted an original V8 R8 but after trying one i changed my mind, the engine was devoid of torque, it's top gear ratio was far too short costing much fuel......and it had terrible ' Quattro shunt ' causing the car to want to change direction on mid corner lift off, I tried another thinking that one clearly had a fault, but it was the same ! An R8 with 660 lbs/ft, 40mpg, 50mph/1000rpm, in top would be ( for me ) the most desirable car in the World. ( providing the drivetrain can be sorted! )

Look at the % of 6 Series Diesels sold, I bet its around 70 % or so, now I know its more of a cruiser but its still a fabulous all rounder and the best in the range.

Audi need some headline grabbing attention for the right reasons right now.

[E65Ross]

Jarama s said:

Audi really should, must build a Diesel R8, Not because it would be easy on the fuel, 40mpg would be normal, but because of the lbs/ft, it would be sensationally quick and super responsive, its a fabulous motor and much easier to package than the originally planned V10 Diesel. I wanted an original V8 R8 but after trying one i changed my mind, the engine was devoid of torque, it's top gear ratio was far too short costing much fuel......and it had terrible ' Quattro shunt ' causing the car to want to change direction on mid corner lift off, I tried another thinking that one clearly had a fault, but it was the same ! An R8 with 660 lbs/ft, 40mpg, 50mph/1000rpm, in top would be ( for me ) the most desirable car in the World. ( providing the drivetrain can be sorted! )

Look at the % of 6 Series Diesels sold, I bet its around 70 % or so, now I know its more of a cruiser but its still a fabulous all rounder and the best in the range.

Audi need some headline grabbing attention for the right reasons right now.

Oh dear. You don't understand the relationship between torque, power and rpm do you.

What you're after is a turbocharged engine.... Not necessarily a diesel one. The TT V8 petrol in my old mans M6 has almost 600lb ft of torque and develops it from bugger all rpm. An engine like that would offer the driving experience you seem to be after. Oh, and the engine would be smoother.

[thegreenhell]

Interesting timing for this article, just as VW announces a major shift in philosophy towards electric vehicles across it's range.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160616/COPY01/30...

[Mr2Mike]

Jarama s said:

but because of the lbs/ft, it would be sensationally quick and super responsive,

Oh dear, another deluded diesel driver.

[The Wookie]

I have the old generation 4.2 V8 diesel in my Cayenne, it sounds good and generally its a great engine... for punting a 4x4 along effortlessly and economically at a decent pace and pulling big trailers

But in a sports car? fk no. Never. Not in a million years. Get out.

[briang9]

Simply, just no....

[Fire99]

thegreenhell said:

Interesting timing for this article, just as VW announces a major shift in philosophy towards electric vehicles across it's range.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160616/COPY01/30...

Exactly... I think it may put a bit of weight behind my belief that VAG may not want a diesel 'halo' sports car.. I do very much feel that with diesel now being out of vogue with the politicians AND the bad press fuelling the fire with the emmissions cheating devices, there is a cultural shift going on at VAG..

[ColinMacC]

Vitorio said:

Nope, the Diesel TT is bad enough imho

If you can afford an R8 yet are concerned about mileage/fuel cost, buy yourself a diesel barge for the long runs instead.

What's the point in the BMW i8 in that case?

There is definitely a case for a diesel R8. It doesn't embarrass itself in terms of power and torque figures compared with petrol rivals either, so it's not a huge performance sacrifice like diesel used to be

[Catatafish]

ColinMacC said:

What's the point in the BMW i8 in that case?

There is definitely a case for a diesel R8. It doesn't embarrass itself in terms of power and torque figures compared with petrol rivals either, so it's not a huge performance sacrifice like diesel used to be

So you can have a sports car that doesnt quite shaft the environment as much.

[drivin_me_nuts]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

For a tehnology that mummy-parent would appear to be dumping toute suite.

[Porkymerc]

RTH said:

Following yesterday's staggeringly bad air quality report on central London- it looks more likely than ever that a new far more stringent low emissions zone for inside the London circulars will be brought in, which will with notice see diesels excluded.

So you are implying that we convert every goods delivery vehicle to a fuel that is not diesel?

[Adrian E]

Porkymerc said:

So you are implying that we convert every goods delivery vehicle to a fuel that is not diesel?

I expect to see limitations on the Euro stage of HGV allowed into the LEZ being tightened in the next few years, or simply older vehicles being priced out of LEZs with additional pollution charges.

There's no good practical alternative to a large HGV for moving goods by weight/volume but for the last mile there are alternatives, albeit they involve more vehicles and handling of goods.

Potentially we'll see more hybrid delivery vehicles, but the drop in payload resulting won't make them popular until there's no alternative

[Dave Hedgehog]

Fire99 said:

thegreenhell said:

Interesting timing for this article, just as VW announces a major shift in philosophy towards electric vehicles across it's range.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160616/COPY01/30...

Exactly... I think it may put a bit of weight behind my belief that VAG may not want a diesel 'halo' sports car.. I do very much feel that with diesel now being out of vogue with the politicians AND the bad press fuelling the fire with the emmissions cheating devices, there is a cultural shift going on at VAG..

and i am sure the massive pre orders musk got has woken up a lot of car companies