RE: Honda Civic Type R generations: EP3 vs. FN2 vs. FK
Discussion
Chris Type R said:
Interesting that the price over 15 years has roughly doubled.
Inflation does that to prices, £16,000 in 2001 is equivalent to around £24,000 now, and the FK2 is much more of a car than the EP3 in terms of equipment etc, which could well be a turn off for some people, I admit.TotalControl said:
Wasn't the DC5 the same as the EP3, just without the electronic steering?
Not quite "the same" but very similar. More power, LSD as standard, hydraulic power steering, conventional gear lever location as well as the obvious body differences.The DC5 hydraulic power steering can be fitted to the EP3, but to be honest if the EPAS rack is working properly then they really aren't that bad, particularly the racks in the facelift cars. If the rack has gone tight (as many of them do) the car is horrendous to drive as it doesn't self centre and removes any last remnants feedback.
I have a soft spot for the EP3, had one on order for when it was launched but delay after delay after delay meant that I cancelled the order (needed a car and couldn't wait any longer) and bought an Audi S3. Probably a mistake looking back as the S3 although a better looking car inside and out wasn't a great steer.
In 2003 the S3 went and I bought my first S2000 which I ran for 3 years and then got an 06 plate which I kept for 2 - AWESOME cars!!
In 2003 the S3 went and I bought my first S2000 which I ran for 3 years and then got an 06 plate which I kept for 2 - AWESOME cars!!
Interesting review of all 3 indeed, Regarding the FN2, I honestly think of it as a bit of a diamond in the rough in regards to the package, It made many improvements over the EP3 in my opinion like body rigidity, suspention stiffness, polished the gear change even further, Steering feel and fluidity, Interior and build quality.
In order I've owned a '99 EK4 SiR Civic, '99 JDM DC2, '08 FN2 & Currently '06 Premier EP3.
I'll admit I didn't have the FN2 on track but I can understand this might not be this type R's natural habit given the 1300-1350kg weight and tendency to under-steer, Slight over-steer and balance could be achieved through some left foot braking as mentioned in a lot of situations, I found it a capable car and inspired a lot of confidence and in the real world wasn't as far behind my good friends DC5 as most may speculate.
The EP3 honestly felt like a blunt instrument on first impression going from the FN2 and seemed to wallow around corners, But in terms of fun it takes the crown from the FN2 and feels much more eager. I will need to fit some stiffer suspension a lower seat rail to the EP3.
Without a doubt from a drivers perspective neither could hold a candle to the DC2 B'road experience, Practically and storage issues forced me to sell unfortunately.
To sum up, EPAS and MacPherson front suspension killed the Type R that I knew.
In order I've owned a '99 EK4 SiR Civic, '99 JDM DC2, '08 FN2 & Currently '06 Premier EP3.
I'll admit I didn't have the FN2 on track but I can understand this might not be this type R's natural habit given the 1300-1350kg weight and tendency to under-steer, Slight over-steer and balance could be achieved through some left foot braking as mentioned in a lot of situations, I found it a capable car and inspired a lot of confidence and in the real world wasn't as far behind my good friends DC5 as most may speculate.
The EP3 honestly felt like a blunt instrument on first impression going from the FN2 and seemed to wallow around corners, But in terms of fun it takes the crown from the FN2 and feels much more eager. I will need to fit some stiffer suspension a lower seat rail to the EP3.
Without a doubt from a drivers perspective neither could hold a candle to the DC2 B'road experience, Practically and storage issues forced me to sell unfortunately.
To sum up, EPAS and MacPherson front suspension killed the Type R that I knew.
Edited by krismccloy on Thursday 23 June 10:08
Edited by krismccloy on Thursday 23 June 10:10
Edited by krismccloy on Thursday 23 June 10:11
moffat said:
I have a soft spot for the EP3, had one on order for when it was launched but delay after delay after delay meant that I cancelled the order (needed a car and couldn't wait any longer) and bought an Audi S3. Probably a mistake looking back as the S3 although a better looking car inside and out wasn't a great steer.
In 2003 the S3 went and I bought my first S2000 which I ran for 3 years and then got an 06 plate which I kept for 2 - AWESOME cars!!
I crashed my 04 plate S2000, I was driving it like a tit on a wet road and paid the price, the farmer who ended up with a massive, car shaped hole in his wall didn't see the funny side though. In 2003 the S3 went and I bought my first S2000 which I ran for 3 years and then got an 06 plate which I kept for 2 - AWESOME cars!!
Thankfully nobody was hurt.
Effjay said:
Butter Face said:
Seen as we're sharing pictures 
Looks great; what power are you running?I still love the look of the FN2's, wouldn't mind a supercharged one.
mp3manager said:
Nope, not even close. There were plenty of better cars after the EP3....DC5, CL7, FD2, FD2 RR.
On the subject of 3 Civics, this is what the article should have tested.
Surely this is The Civic that should be included On the subject of 3 Civics, this is what the article should have tested.
It's absolutely razor sharp, and the most exciting fwd car I've ever owned/driven, including things like the FRS, R26R etc.
My type R experience started with an EP3, which I really enjoyed. Fantastic engine and one of the best gear changes ever.
I also own a DC2, which is so "organic" and a brilliant, brilliant car. But not as immediate and edgy as the Mugen 20.
I also drove the new FK car, and was really impressed with it. Whilst the engine is not quite the same as a high revving NA, the lag does a good imitation of the V-tech. It's also the quickest by a margin and has a beautiful LSD.
I think Black S2k's p.2 post and kris' post above are pretty fair summaries.
I've driven pre- and post-facelift EP3s and the new FK2, and currently own an FD2. I've also owned or driven a fair few other quick Hondas... Not driven an FN2 for comparison, but given the consistent reputation I've never wanted to...I didn't rate the EP3 anywhere near as highly as the DC2 (I bought a 2nd DC2 in 2007 as a daily driver 2 years after I sold my first), and the FN2 was always reported to be a step backwards.
The FK2 is very different - as a road-car it's in most regards well ahead of the old UK-market Civics, although it does miss the engine note of the K20, and the rear seats are a f'n awful example of too much cost-cutting. But unless you press the 'R' button (which makes the suspension FD2-stiff*!), you don't get much chassis adjustment on the throttle (it's far too composed/planted)...and the throttle, despite being good, DOES behave like you'd expect in a turbo'd car.
I'd have an FK2 as a daily driver (which puts it well ahead of it's UK predecessors)...if they did some better deals I'd replace my FD2 with one, as I'm doing bigger mileage now and need better economy. But I'd want a weekend car alongside it...with the FD2, DC2, DC5 and EK9 I don't think you'd feel any need for another car.
* And if you're going to have an overly-stiff ride, then quite frankly buy an FD2 and enjoy the best K20 spec outside of a Mugen car and a hilarious chassis.
I've driven pre- and post-facelift EP3s and the new FK2, and currently own an FD2. I've also owned or driven a fair few other quick Hondas... Not driven an FN2 for comparison, but given the consistent reputation I've never wanted to...I didn't rate the EP3 anywhere near as highly as the DC2 (I bought a 2nd DC2 in 2007 as a daily driver 2 years after I sold my first), and the FN2 was always reported to be a step backwards.
The FK2 is very different - as a road-car it's in most regards well ahead of the old UK-market Civics, although it does miss the engine note of the K20, and the rear seats are a f'n awful example of too much cost-cutting. But unless you press the 'R' button (which makes the suspension FD2-stiff*!), you don't get much chassis adjustment on the throttle (it's far too composed/planted)...and the throttle, despite being good, DOES behave like you'd expect in a turbo'd car.
I'd have an FK2 as a daily driver (which puts it well ahead of it's UK predecessors)...if they did some better deals I'd replace my FD2 with one, as I'm doing bigger mileage now and need better economy. But I'd want a weekend car alongside it...with the FD2, DC2, DC5 and EK9 I don't think you'd feel any need for another car.
* And if you're going to have an overly-stiff ride, then quite frankly buy an FD2 and enjoy the best K20 spec outside of a Mugen car and a hilarious chassis.
I've just watched the new best motoring (japans topgear) and they tested the new civic type r FK2 against the last Japanese market only Civic Type R FD2 fitted with aftermarket coilovers.The later naturally aspirated Civic was noticeably quicker across a lap of their test track which surprised me, wish it sold over here though!
I've owned a 2009 FN2 CTR since January 2015. After one month of ownership, I fully understood why people moaned about the poor ride quality – it really is bad, even on the standard 18-inch wheels. And when driving the car hard, the nose never wanted to play ball. It just refused to tuck into corners.
Long story short, I bit the bullet last October and went for TGM Sport's fast road set up with Eibach road springs and camber bolts (about £450 all in). Honestly, it has made the world of difference. Not only is the ride better thanks to the progressive springs, but the car feels so much more nimble and adjustable. I've never modified a car before, but I'm SO glad I tackled my car's 'issues'. The suspension tweaks have transformed it.
Long story short, I bit the bullet last October and went for TGM Sport's fast road set up with Eibach road springs and camber bolts (about £450 all in). Honestly, it has made the world of difference. Not only is the ride better thanks to the progressive springs, but the car feels so much more nimble and adjustable. I've never modified a car before, but I'm SO glad I tackled my car's 'issues'. The suspension tweaks have transformed it.
rossub said:
Love my JDM EP3. The most fun car I've owned in 22 years of driving and knocks the socks off the FN2 I had.
Just 40k miles now...
IMG_6122a by Ross Davidson, on Flickr
That's stunning, top work!Just 40k miles now...
IMG_6122a by Ross Davidson, on FlickrAlpinestars said:
mp3manager said:
Nope, not even close. There were plenty of better cars after the EP3....DC5, CL7, FD2, FD2 RR.
On the subject of 3 Civics, this is what the article should have tested.
Surely this is The Civic that should be included On the subject of 3 Civics, this is what the article should have tested.
It's absolutely razor sharp, and the most exciting fwd car I've ever owned/driven, including things like the FRS, R26R etc.
My type R experience started with an EP3, which I really enjoyed. Fantastic engine and one of the best gear changes ever.
I also own a DC2, which is so "organic" and a brilliant, brilliant car. But not as immediate and edgy as the Mugen 20.
I also drove the new FK car, and was really impressed with it. Whilst the engine is not quite the same as a high revving NA, the lag does a good imitation of the V-tech. It's also the quickest by a margin and has a beautiful LSD.
Matt
Matt Bird said:
We are trying to sort this! As you'll see in the article, Honda's Mugen was sadly unavailable on the day. But as a massive JDM nut, I'm very keen to get at least two out of the EK9/EP3/FD2 trio together. Bear with!
Matt
Were you trying to get a Mugen 20 or 200 for the review?Matt
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