People that drive 50 on motorways - why?

[Ozzie Osmond]

Mave said:

Normally 2' behind the car in front...

Mave said:

....which is a completely different scenario to doing the same speed as the lorries in L1...

[Mave]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Mave said:

Normally 2' behind the car in front...

Mave said:

....which is a completely different scenario to doing the same speed as the lorries in L1...

Seriously? I'm going to need to assume and extrapolate a bit seeing as your point wasn't particularly well made, but I'll give it a go, I'm assuming that you're trying to imply that people sitting 2' behind the car in front is because that car is doing 45mph in L3 on a clear road....
You seem to be missing comprehension of the context of my comments that you quoted.

The first quote was related to driving 2' behind someone who could go no faster because the road was congested.
The second quote was related to your example of someone doing 45mph in L3 on a toally uncongested road (the relevant bit of context you didn't bother quoting)
Clearly these are two very different scenarios - if you actually disagree with something I've said, then I'll need more of a clue to understand which bit...

Edited by Mave on Wednesday 29th June 21:51

[Pete317]

Mave said:

Pete317 said:

Mave said:

spookly said:

I don't care which you see more of, seeing more of one does not make the other any less idiotic.

No, you shouldn't drive 5m behind the car in front if you are doing 90, or doing 70. Personally if I am going faster I leave a larger gap, not less.

That does not absolve people who could be driving faster than 50 clogging up the motorway trying to save tiny amounts of fuel.

But, if the road is near capacity, surely it's the people trying to do 90, or 70, who actually clog it up?

So where do you see all these people trying to do 90 when the road's near capacity?

Normally 2' behind the car in front...

Seriously?

Anyone can exaggerate to make a point - it means nothing

[Mave]

Pete317 said:

Mave said:

Pete317 said:

Mave said:

spookly said:

I don't care which you see more of, seeing more of one does not make the other any less idiotic.

No, you shouldn't drive 5m behind the car in front if you are doing 90, or doing 70. Personally if I am going faster I leave a larger gap, not less.

That does not absolve people who could be driving faster than 50 clogging up the motorway trying to save tiny amounts of fuel.

But, if the road is near capacity, surely it's the people trying to do 90, or 70, who actually clog it up?

So where do you see all these people trying to do 90 when the road's near capacity?

Normally 2' behind the car in front...

Seriously?

Anyone can exaggerate to make a point - it means nothing

Call it 2', 6', whatever, the issue is the same, People wanting to go faster than the capacity of the road allows, bunching up to try to pressure the guy in front, then causing waves back down the road when they get too close and brake. These are the people clogging up the motorway, not the people in L1 doing the same speed as the trucks. When you're going faster you need more space, not less, as you said earlier. So if there's too many people you need to slow down to take up less room, not bunch up to try to push people into space that doesn't exist.

[Digby]

Comedy gold

[TwigtheWonderkid]

The slower you drive the more capacity the road has. That's obvious. If no one drove at all, you could turn the motorway into a giant car park with three lanes rammed nose to tail. That would be maximum capacity. If everyone drove at 5mph, you could leave really small gaps between each car and still the capacity would be huge. Speed increases the gaps required, meaning more of the motorway is effectively empty.

So the faster you go the more you are clogging up the motorway, because you're dictating that you need more space, thus leaving less for others that want to use the road.

That's how the M25 variable speed limits work. They reduce the speed to ease congestion.

[Digby]

So all those drivers happily skipping along doing entire laps of the M25 at 70 to 90mph with no issue (forget rush hour, of course) cause more congestion than those sat at 50 mph or less who cause HGV's to overtake, HGV's and cars to brake more, middle lanes to become full of more slow moving HGV's and cars, lanes full of more cars now not able to carry on at 70 mph or move over more quickly for those who do...etc, etc, etc..

You can just add in dozens and dozens of scenarios here which slow things down as a result, including either getting off at junctions with these dawdlers (there is often a huge queue sat behind such people) and trying to join a motorway at *shock horror* a decent motorway speed.

Still, keep trying to find excuses. It doesn't matter if you are more dangerous, increase HGV blind spot strikes, cause various issues with joining and leaving slip roads, help trigger smart motorway signs etc, because you are a happy, content, dawdler!

[drivin_me_nuts]

I am indeed at times a happy dawdler. It's a good choice. Apologies (no, not really), but if you don't like it, tough titty really. The roads are shared by more than you and our choices are our choices. It's not breaking any laws, hardly slowing the traffic up and in fact it makes for a less stressful journey. Sometimes. Then again, there are times when pressing the right foot harder is a bit more fun to. It's all about context.

Try the M25 between J14 and J8 and you'll see for yourself that it's very much a case of doing 50 odd in the inside lane(s) and sit back and reflect upon life's more salient subjects as time and time again you'll catch up billy big bollix in his white A4MsportCCAMGlookielikey whose speed has varied from 90 to a crawl for the last 20 odd miles. How do I know this, well near as damnit 400,000 miles between those junctions in the last 16 years has given me the experience to say that.

But hey, you carry on leaving your 3" gaps at 90 and enjoy the cut and thrust of 'fast lane jousting' whilst I sit back and enjoy the Archers and bemoan the demise of decent R4 comedy. Come back Andy Hamilton, all is forgiven. Safe journeys one and all.

[AH33]

Shockwave Traffic Jams

[AH33]

There should be a rollercoaster style hook and chain running under every road that picks up slowies and forces them up to the limit. It would also have the added bonus of pulling every dawdler away from the lights immediately after the lights go green

[Mave]

Digby said:

So all those drivers happily skipping along doing entire laps of the M25 at 70 to 90mph with no issue (forget rush hour, of course) cause more congestion than those sat at 50 mph or less...

Nice.
I made a point about traffic dynamics when the roads are congested, you've gone all "comedy gold"; and then your reply conveniently excludes the very scenario I was explicitly referring to!

[djc206]

I would like to apologise to the motorists of south and south west this last week as I trundled along the A303/A34/M3/M27 at what I can only assume was about 50mph given that the HGV's were trundling past. My speedo was showing 56mph, I was hammering the throttle but the eBay purchase campervan would not move any quicker. Worry not I'm back in an Audi now getting irate at anyone not travelling at 90+....

[GC8]

If you cant, you cant. Cars driving in the nearside lane at any speed don't particularly bother me: only the fools who speed up when you try to overtake them.

And people who refuse to move to the left whilst driving at 44mph in road works. Yes, people are 'allowed' to go faster than you, you fool.

[Pete317]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

The slower you drive the more capacity the road has. That's obvious. If no one drove at all, you could turn the motorway into a giant car park with three lanes rammed nose to tail. That would be maximum capacity. If everyone drove at 5mph, you could leave really small gaps between each car and still the capacity would be huge. Speed increases the gaps required, meaning more of the motorway is effectively empty.

So the faster you go the more you are clogging up the motorway, because you're dictating that you need more space, thus leaving less for others that want to use the road.

That's how the M25 variable speed limits work. They reduce the speed to ease congestion.

Capacity is measured in vehicles per hour, not vehicles per mile!

[Digby]

Mave said:

Nice.
I made a point about traffic dynamics when the roads are congested, you've gone all "comedy gold"; and then your reply conveniently excludes the very scenario I was explicitly referring to!

So all those who admit to creeping along at 50mph or less, only do so when things are congested? Righto. Like most of us have to, then.

[mpcdonald]

I always thought that you take the car to save time, not to save money. So if you only do 50 mph instead of 60 or 65, how much time do you(and the ones you hold up) lose a day. If it's only 1 min a day, it's about 6 hours in a year. So if you'd do 60 on a 50 mile trip instead of 50 you'd save 10 min a day that's 60 hours a year. That's 1,5 working week. Hope you'll drive a bit faster next time.

[Mave]

Digby said:

Mave said:

Nice.
I made a point about traffic dynamics when the roads are congested, you've gone all "comedy gold"; and then your reply conveniently excludes the very scenario I was explicitly referring to!

So all those who admit to creeping along at 50mph or less, only do so when things are congested? Righto. Like most of us have to, then.

Again, you're ignoring the context of my comment; which was about whether going at the same speed as HGVs in L1 causes congestion. It wasn't about going at 50mph because of congestion.

[Mave]

Pete317 said:

Capacity is measured in vehicles per hour, not vehicles per mile!

Surely its measured in total vehicle miles travelled per hour?

[Pete317]

Mave said:

Pete317 said:

Capacity is measured in vehicles per hour, not vehicles per mile!

Surely its measured in total vehicle miles travelled per hour?

No, it's a count of how many vehicles pass any point along the road in an hour.

eg, 1 vehicle passing every 2 seconds is 1800 veh/hour

[F1GTRUeno]

CraigyMc said:

F1GTRUeno said:

It always seems to me that the ones who are doing significantly slower speeds are st scared of being on a motorway to begin with and shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car anyway.

Interesting.

You're clearly godlike behind the wheel. Would you like to demonstrate it?

I'd quite like to see what a superior driver is like in comparison to my skill level.

Do you fancy meeting up for a small karting challenge?

I wasn't implying I'm godlike behind the wheel at all. You've seen point A and reached conclusion Z without any of the in between. I'm a completely average driver but I'm confident enough to maintain a reasonable pace on a motorway, check my mirrors and make a definitive move if I need to change lanes/overtake and generally cope with motorway driving.

A lot of the people you see dawdling at 55 have their seat pushed as far forward as possible, tightly gripping onto the steering wheel and generally look st scared meanwhile they're dithering over whether to overtake the lorry in the inside lane and therefore they stick in the middle lane once they're done and continue to look even more scared.

Like I said, I'm not a great driver, but I can clearly spot an unconfident one and usually try and steer clear of them as quickly as possible.

I've not done karting for a while but I wouldn't mind a go though, shame my local stopped doing arrive and drive, I was usually one of the quickest on the day...