People that drive 50 on motorways - why?

[Mave]

Pete317 said:

Mave said:

Pete317 said:

Capacity is measured in vehicles per hour, not vehicles per mile!

Surely its measured in total vehicle miles travelled per hour?

No, it's a count of how many vehicles pass any point along the road in an hour.

eg, 1 vehicle passing every 2 seconds is 1800 veh/hour

OK, I guess that works out the same as I was thinking in terms of traffic flowing along a mile stretch, rather than across a line. Your way of looking at it makes the point more obvious-

Which motorway has more capacity? The one with cars doing 50mph leaving a 2 second gap, or the one with cars doing 70mph leaving a 2 second gap? ;-)

(and the reason I was thinking about capacity in terms of per mile is the what if scenario - If the road has a fixed capacity in terms of number of cars passing a point per hour, then what has to happen if you introduce more cars?)

Edited by Mave on Thursday 30th June 19:44

[alock]

Mave said:

Which motorway has more capacity? The one with cars doing 50mph leaving a 2 second gap, or the one with cars doing 70mph leaving a 2 second gap? ;-)

The capacity, i.e. cars/hours, is the same.

The maximum number of cars you can safely get onto the road is when the speed is slowest because the 2 second gap consumes the shortest physical length. At 1mph they could be almost bumper to bumper and still 2 seconds apart. At 100mph there would need to be a couple of hundred empty metres between each car.

[Ozzie Osmond]

All these numbers are wrong because the "2 second" gap is not a constant. The faster the cars are going the longer the time gap needs to be.

[Mave]

Ozzie Osmond said:

All these numbers are wrong because the "2 second" gap is not a constant. The faster the cars are going the longer the time gap needs to be.

Oh, I totally agree. It's just a starting concept before thinking about how the 2 seconds changes with speed, and what happens to capacity when you go too fast / close and start triggering phantom traffic jams... Still, those selfish misers following the HGVs in L1, causing chaos for everyone else, eh?

[Digby]

Mave said:

Digby said:

Mave said:

Nice.
I made a point about traffic dynamics when the roads are congested, you've gone all "comedy gold"; and then your reply conveniently excludes the very scenario I was explicitly referring to!

So all those who admit to creeping along at 50mph or less, only do so when things are congested? Righto. Like most of us have to, then.

Again, you're ignoring the context of my comment; which was about whether going at the same speed as HGVs in L1 causes congestion. It wasn't about going at 50mph because of congestion.

You seem to be ignoring everything. The question is why do people drive at 50 mph on motorways. They do and they cause many issues. Clearly, they don't care that they do.

[Ozzie Osmond]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Oh dear, oh dear, the next member of this "lane rental scheme" will be passing you at their own sedate speed (0.5 mph faster) and half the planet will grind to a halt behind the pair of you.

I don't care how slowly people drive so long as they don't get in the way of "normal traffic". To do so falls into the category of "Inconsiderate Driving", same as hogging the middle lane. The first driver convicted of middle lane hogging was slapped with a £940 fine for driving at 60mph in the central lane of the M62.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-driver-...

Road Traffic Act 1988 s.3 - ...inconsiderate driving, a traffic offence that comes before the magistrates courts relatively frequently.

[swisstoni]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

... most of which you can't possibly have read to follow on with what you did.

Yes there will be the odd vehicle that cannot make comfortably make 60. These will be vanishingly small in number.
What we are talking about here are people who, on a busy motorway, will not keep up with trucks at the scary speed of 60 mph because of all the crap excuses you haven't read on this thread.

[AH33]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If they can't do 70, they're not worthy - correct.

If people want to drive around in a museum piece, they can do it away from other traffic.

[Balmoral]

I drive a 2CV, it tops out at about 70, on a motorway or dual carriageway I tend to do about 60 and stay in L1, I make damned sure that I am not an inconvenience to anyone, particularly the poor truckers. The number of slow drivers that cause me grief is significant, why anyone would sit at 45-50'ish in a decent car on a motorway is beyond me, but they do! I really pity the truckers.

[SuperchargedVR6]

AH33 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If they can't do 70, they're not worthy - correct.

If people want to drive around in a museum piece, they can do it away from other traffic.

Air-cooled VWs spend most of their time in the hard shoulder cooling off, so that one is a moot point. He does have a point though, in that occasionally you'll get a bunch of relics heading to a show, which can grind things to a halt, but they have a right to use the motorways and such events are usually well organised.

As well as the 50 mph'ers, there are other factors at play too, all coming under the 'crap driving' banner:

People not reading the roads far enough ahead, causing knee jerk emergency stops or sudden swerving when coming up to a snail.
People bunching up too close to each other, in all lanes, making it difficult to join and leave motorways.
Moody b'stards closing gaps when people want to change lanes.
Etc

Let's just build a 'SAGA' lane and be done with it. 50 mph for 50+ people.

[Mave]

Digby said:

Mave said:

Digby said:

Mave said:

Nice.
I made a point about traffic dynamics when the roads are congested, you've gone all "comedy gold"; and then your reply conveniently excludes the very scenario I was explicitly referring to!

So all those who admit to creeping along at 50mph or less, only do so when things are congested? Righto. Like most of us have to, then.

Again, you're ignoring the context of my comment; which was about whether going at the same speed as HGVs in L1 causes congestion. It wasn't about going at 50mph because of congestion.

You seem to be ignoring everything. The question is why do people drive at 50 mph on motorways. They do and they cause many issues. Clearly, they don't care that they do.

No, I made a very specific point that you disagreed with, so I'm trying to understand which bit of that specific point you think is wrong.

I'm not ignoring "everything", but if you try to discuss "everything" without getting into specifics then you just end up with sweeping generalisations like "they cause many issues and don't care that they do". It also conveniently muddies the water sufficiently, that we don't have to acknowledge that, actually, "we" are as guilty of creating many of the issues as "them".

Edited by Mave on Friday 1st July 13:57

[WD39]

Ozzie Osmond said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Oh dear, oh dear, the next member of this "lane rental scheme" will be passing you at their own sedate speed (0.5 mph faster) and half the planet will grind to a halt behind the pair of you.

I don't care how slowly people drive so long as they don't get in the way of "normal traffic". To do so falls into the category of "Inconsiderate Driving", same as hogging the middle lane. The first driver convicted of middle lane hogging was slapped with a £940 fine for driving at 60mph in the central lane of the M62.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-driver-...

Road Traffic Act 1988 s.3 - ...inconsiderate driving, a traffic offence that comes before the magistrates courts relatively frequently.

I doubt if he would have been prosecuted for 'hogging lane one'.

[WD39]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This has been highlighted on PH before.

Isn't the correct terminology lane 1 2 or 3 (or 4)?

It's no wonder that default speeders drive constantly in the outside lane when it is popularly known as the 'fast' lane.

[Ozzie Osmond]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There is no "slow lane". Doesn't exist. Except in your mind for your eco-weenie economy run.

You think you own lane 1, other clowns think they own lane 2 and so a major road becomes congested.

For goodness sake have some thought for other people sharing this planet and "move with the traffic".

[Ozzie Osmond]

Yup, I'll agree that when I used to head out of London on the motorway on Friday evenings a few years back "lane 1" was the best for sensible progress with a calm demeanour!

[WJNB]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Had one yesterday. 3-lane dual carriageway - Mr Muppet pottering up the outside lane at a steady 45 with nothing in lane 2, nothing in front of him and absolutely no intention of moving over. He's paid his road tax so he'll drive in any lane he likes....

Any chance monitoring cameras would spot this & either direct a Plod or better still issue an automatic fine complete with points?

[WJNB]

Jaguar steve said:

I do this often. Position myself some 100m or so behind a Lorryist, flip the cruise on then relax and just watch all the bumper to bumper carnage, stupidity and aggression occurring in lanes 2 and 3 whilst enjoying some nice music. It's all good - sometimes even like having your own private motorway all to yourself.

And one day a brick or stone will become dislodged from the tyres or more likely from between a double set of tyres right into your face.
Or if you're daft enough to follow any truck with the sort of load that may on it's own or components of be likely to become dislodged.
Then again how many shredded HGV tyres have you seen strewn on the carriageway, for you may well be tucked up behind such a HGV when it blows a tyre.
Intentionally maintaining close formation with any vehicle is plain daft.

[Telecaster_]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yours is as daft as any!

I do 40k miles a year and the amount of relics I've seen on the motorway causing a problem by doing <60 I could count on the fingers of one hand! Seriously, complete non issue.

The only people I see doing 50-60 on the motorway are ALWAYS in a car capable of keeping to the speed limit, this isn't a mechanical limit we're talking about, it's an issue bought on by utter brain deads.

[Digby]

Telecaster_ said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yours is as daft as any!

I do 40k miles a year and the amount of relics I've seen on the motorway causing a problem by doing <60 I could count on the fingers of one hand! Seriously, complete non issue.

The only people I see doing 50-60 on the motorway are ALWAYS in a car capable of keeping to the speed limit, this isn't a mechanical limit we're talking about, it's an issue bought on by utter brain deads.

Exactly. Now we have old VW's, bubble cars, Harley Davidson bikes (which can't stop) and, apparently, mopeds!

Edited by Digby on Sunday 3rd July 00:18

[GC8]

WJNB said:

Jaguar steve said:

I do this often. Position myself some 100m or so behind a Lorryist, flip the cruise on then relax and just watch all the bumper to bumper carnage, stupidity and aggression occurring in lanes 2 and 3 whilst enjoying some nice music. It's all good - sometimes even like having your own private motorway all to yourself.

And one day a brick or stone will become dislodged from the tyres or more likely from between a double set of tyres right into your face.
Or if you're daft enough to follow any truck with the sort of load that may on it's own or components of be likely to become dislodged.
Then again how many shredded HGV tyres have you seen strewn on the carriageway, for you may well be tucked up behind such a HGV when it blows a tyre.
Intentionally maintaining close formation with any vehicle is plain daft.

How often do you think that 'bricks' become lodged between the tyres on HGVs. Carefully consider your answer and realise that I actually know, as opposed to made-up knowing...