Motorway gantry 'smart' messages...why wrong so often?
Discussion
wildone63 said:
While travelling northbound on the A1 in North Yorks recently I seen the overhead warnings signs were advising drivers to slow down because of an 'incident',a few miles later it turned out to be a rear end shunt and a couple of lanes were blocked,fair enough but what I couldn't get my head around were the overhead gantry signs displaying the same message for the next couple of miles AFTER the incident,and also traffic in the unaffected southbound lane being displayed the same message.
Perhaps that shunt you saw was one that happened in the tailback from one that had already been cleared...? And perhaps the first one had caused another shunt (now cleared) in the opposite carriageway?I'm doing over 40,000 miles a year at the moment, mainly motorways, and I find them reasonably accurate more than 90% of the time.
I think overall they do help traffic flow. And many times I've been grateful for the 'long delays after J20' type of messages.
I see odd occasions where they seem to slow the traffic for no *apparent* reason, I generally take the view that there's either a reason I'm not aware of, or it's a precaution, or it's something that's recently been cleared.
Overall, they are of great benefit.
I think overall they do help traffic flow. And many times I've been grateful for the 'long delays after J20' type of messages.
I see odd occasions where they seem to slow the traffic for no *apparent* reason, I generally take the view that there's either a reason I'm not aware of, or it's a precaution, or it's something that's recently been cleared.
Overall, they are of great benefit.
zarjaz1991 said:
Overall, they are of great benefit.
Fair opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Lots of posters (aka taxpayers and voters)on this thread seem to agree with me.
Messages about the M1 when I am on the M20, messages about the M11 when I am on
the M23, messages about congestion about the M3 when I am near Scratchwood services
etc etc etc.
A textbook waste of time and money, in my view. No messages at all would
be a substantial improvement.
dcb said:
Messages about the M1 when I am on the M20, messages about the M11 when I am on
the M23, messages about congestion about the M3 when I am near Scratchwood services
etc etc etc.
...giving you time to go a different route.the M23, messages about congestion about the M3 when I am near Scratchwood services
etc etc etc.
You're on the M20, heading from Dover to the Midlands. M1's solid. OK, no problem. You can go the other way round the M25 and take the M40. Or you can take the M11.
Flooble said:
swisstoni said:
There's probably about 4 blokes trying to keep the whole crumbling edifice from crashing to the ground.
In other words, no money to support it properly.
Four? When did they get the budget to double their headcount??!In other words, no money to support it properly.
Blakewater said:
Gaffer Jim is one to tell you about these signs as he works in a North West control centre.
No he doesn't he's another one who's fooooked off aka retired unlikely to be replaced for a year or two knowing the shocking incompetence of the Highways England "management team" 
and this Cocksocket now "running" it https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-highways-en...
TooMany2cvs said:
wildone63 said:
While travelling northbound on the A1 in North Yorks recently I seen the overhead warnings signs were advising drivers to slow down because of an 'incident',a few miles later it turned out to be a rear end shunt and a couple of lanes were blocked,fair enough but what I couldn't get my head around were the overhead gantry signs displaying the same message for the next couple of miles AFTER the incident,and also traffic in the unaffected southbound lane being displayed the same message.
Perhaps that shunt you saw was one that happened in the tailback from one that had already been cleared...? And perhaps the first one had caused another shunt (now cleared) in the opposite carriageway?zarjaz1991 said:
I'm doing over 40,000 miles a year at the moment, mainly motorways, and I find them reasonably accurate more than 90% of the time.
I think overall they do help traffic flow. And many times I've been grateful for the 'long delays after J20' type of messages.
I see odd occasions where they seem to slow the traffic for no *apparent* reason, I generally take the view that there's either a reason I'm not aware of, or it's a precaution, or it's something that's recently been cleared.
My view is the exact opposite. I have seen maybe a handful of examples of what was posted compared to what now must be hundreds where I have seen nothing of what was displayed and the advice given or reduced speeds made no sense. I fully accept things may have happened earlier and been cleared etc, but then quite often, you are reduced to 40 or 50 mph and shortly after, the limit is back to normal. How can something have been cleared in such a short space of time? The only answer must be as has been suggested; there may have been a problem a long time ago and the reduced traffic has now triggered the 'smart' system. Now, someone needs to turn it off..I think overall they do help traffic flow. And many times I've been grateful for the 'long delays after J20' type of messages.
I see odd occasions where they seem to slow the traffic for no *apparent* reason, I generally take the view that there's either a reason I'm not aware of, or it's a precaution, or it's something that's recently been cleared.
Can anyone suggest what the point was of my original example?
70 mph to 40 mph on a single gantry where you could see ahead to the next 70 mph sign yet displaying QUEUE AHEAD. Well, there wasn't a queue and must never have been as there wasn't really room between the two signs to form one
Something else someone forgot to turn off? More money-making? What reason can there be to make a road more dangerous and if there is a reason, why lit for so long?littleredrooster said:
If we're doing this yet again (...sigh...), the usual - and generally entirely correct answer is that they are reacting to something several kilometres away which you will never see and which will have gone by the time you get there. They prevent fast traffic from running into the back of slowing traffic and try (and succeed, IMO) to keep traffic flowing.
exactly the 'wave' effect of traffic coming up against a stopped traffic increases back ... so by slowing traffic several Km / miles back to 40/ 50 the incident can be managed and resolved / ameliorated without traffic piling up with the increased risk of secondary ( rubber necking or zoned -out driver initiated ) collisions etc ... Digby said:
Why, with so much money thrown at new technology capable of keeping us all safe (no laughing at the back) do we continue to see messages for something quite obviously not happening?
Today, on the M25 (shock!) we were faced with a single gantry red circled 40mph sign declaring "Queue ahead" You could see ahead. There was no queue. Nothing. It wasn't even busy.
The usual bunching up began to occur as some wondered whether to slow at all, others decreased speeds quickly, some had a half and half approach; undertaking, overtaking....all pointless.
Moments later and in clear view, the national speed limit sign.
15 to 20 mins after I passed, one of our other drivers came through the same section with it still lit. Still no queue, nothing in the distance, just the same single gantry lit with 40 mph and the warning.
It's not the first time, it won't be the last, but why? I understand it may be hard to pinpoint animals / small children / debris in the road type reports, but a blatantly obvious, non-existent queue?
Who is in charge of turning this stuff off?
Shame you don't specify which section of the M25!Today, on the M25 (shock!) we were faced with a single gantry red circled 40mph sign declaring "Queue ahead" You could see ahead. There was no queue. Nothing. It wasn't even busy.
The usual bunching up began to occur as some wondered whether to slow at all, others decreased speeds quickly, some had a half and half approach; undertaking, overtaking....all pointless.
Moments later and in clear view, the national speed limit sign.
15 to 20 mins after I passed, one of our other drivers came through the same section with it still lit. Still no queue, nothing in the distance, just the same single gantry lit with 40 mph and the warning.
It's not the first time, it won't be the last, but why? I understand it may be hard to pinpoint animals / small children / debris in the road type reports, but a blatantly obvious, non-existent queue?
Who is in charge of turning this stuff off?
I use J12 to J10 at least once a week and it is 99.5 per cent of the time at a 40 or 50 limit, even though there is no incident, queue, random animal loose!
I don't think anyone is in charge of this stuff, which is why it is such a f*ckup - the operators just seem to be entertained by backing all the traffic up until J11 when we finally see the National Speed Limit signs (only because that seems to be where the f*ckwits no longer have control)!
Still after more than 2 years of 50 average cameras between J2 and J4 on the M3 we will eventually end up with another "S**T" motorway, so can look forward to moronic speed limits for no reason just like the M25!
It'll be quicker to use A roads soon!
Digby said:
Wills2 said:
They're utterly useless.....
Pedestrians in the road slow down!......no there isn't
Incident slow down!...............no there isn't
Animals on the road slow down!...............no there isn't
That was just a selection of the incorrect signs I've witnessed recently on the motorway.
But there may have been, several hours ago..Pedestrians in the road slow down!......no there isn't
Incident slow down!...............no there isn't
Animals on the road slow down!...............no there isn't
That was just a selection of the incorrect signs I've witnessed recently on the motorway.
dcb said:
zarjaz1991 said:
Overall, they are of great benefit.
Fair opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. Lots of posters (aka taxpayers and voters)on this thread seem to agree with me.
Messages about the M1 when I am on the M20, messages about the M11 when I am on
the M23, messages about congestion about the M3 when I am near Scratchwood services
etc etc etc.
A textbook waste of time and money, in my view. No messages at all would
be a substantial improvement.
One thing I have noticed is they are often accurate but seeming wrong carriageway I've often on quick trips to a customer gone passed people walking on the hard shoulder southbound dropped something off quick turnaround going north signs about people in the road look in mirror nothing.
I've seen this they were walking up the slip road yet ages later still the warnings. It's probably a fear of f
kng up so over cautious which I can kind of understand. Pesty said:
One thing I have noticed is they are often accurate but seeming wrong carriageway
Seen this tooLoads of signs about workforce in road, setting out of roadworks - nothing
Then on the hard shoulder the other side a load of wagons with coning kit, presumably waiting for the signs to show workforce in road, setting out roadworks etc
mph1977 said:
littleredrooster said:
If we're doing this yet again (...sigh...), the usual - and generally entirely correct answer is that they are reacting to something several kilometres away which you will never see and which will have gone by the time you get there. They prevent fast traffic from running into the back of slowing traffic and try (and succeed, IMO) to keep traffic flowing.
exactly the 'wave' effect of traffic coming up against a stopped traffic increases back ... so by slowing traffic several Km / miles back to 40/ 50 the incident can be managed and resolved / ameliorated without traffic piling up with the increased risk of secondary ( rubber necking or zoned -out driver initiated ) collisions etc ... The worst conundrum is what I faced on the M6 last week. A random 50mph limit displayed on one of the matrix boards to the side of the smart motorway that was never cancelled by an NSL sign further on. Theoretically, if the next speed limit signs are blank the last shown limit applies until a matrix sign displaying the NSL is reached. However, a reduced limit displayed for no apparent reason, that is never cancelled, leaves you wondering if you should carry on trundling at 40mph to 50mph while everyone else hoons past you or go with the flow while gambling your life against your licence and bank balance.
I was on the M40 on Sat at around 4:30pm passing Beaconsfield when the signs went 50 and then 40. Average traffic levels and nothing on Waze to say traffic build up ahead.
On the left a sign flashed up saying "oncoming vehicle" followed by the signs going to 20mph.
I felt like I was in a video game expecting to dodge and oncoming car any time soon! As it was, nothing appeared.
On the left a sign flashed up saying "oncoming vehicle" followed by the signs going to 20mph.
I felt like I was in a video game expecting to dodge and oncoming car any time soon! As it was, nothing appeared.
saaby93 said:
Pesty said:
One thing I have noticed is they are often accurate but seeming wrong carriageway
Seen this tooLoads of signs about workforce in road, setting out of roadworks - nothing
Then on the hard shoulder the other side a load of wagons with coning kit, presumably waiting for the signs to show workforce in road, setting out roadworks etc
Once the hard signs are in they don't reverse up the hard shoulder if available for 2 miles they go to next jnc and turn, same again possibly on other side if central res works then round to next jnc and start taper etc so could be driving miles between junctionsix to set out then the same again to remove.
Or you could Google "TSRGD chapter 8"
Scrap dangerous motorway hard shoulder plans, MPs warn
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36664116
No kidding !!! Who would ever have thought of that ? Lot's here, that's who !!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36664116
No kidding !!! Who would ever have thought of that ? Lot's here, that's who !!
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