RE: Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R - the video

[hughcam]

The review mirrors my assumption really. The civic is quicker and more entertaining most likely due to superior engineering and driver focused development team. But on the flipside the looks/aero addenda and focused handling arent for everyone.

The FRS on the otherhand is more a spec sheet hero with bought in tech such as the GKN twinster 4wd system boosting a more road biased chassis (ala Golf R). Albeit still a cracking hot hatch and possibly a marginally better allrounder.

There is no wrong choice but to be honest if your buying for outright performance/good weather ability I honestly think the focus would be a good 2-3 seconds a lap slower on the same tyres (e.g both on cup 2's)

Ford are using a similar trick bmw/porsche use against their competion - ship there new mid range products with super sticky tyres to win road tests.

I would also take with a pinch of salt what the other '90% of motoring jounalists' conclude with the FRS/type r comparison. Pistonheads and EVO reviews tend to be much more driver orientated than the other publications and in my experience provide a view more in line with my own actual experiences.

Edited by hughcam on Saturday 25th June 15:56

[Msportman]

lee_erm said:

I wish there had been a Golf R thrown in to this test too! Is the Focus a better drive than the Golf R?

I recently drove.a Golf R around Donnington on Cup tyres H&R uprated ARB's on a stage 1 map ( circa 360) uprated pads and DSG map....absolutely amazing. No under steer and great oomph out of corners and down the Dunlop straight. A very well balanced car and brilliant for the drive home. Gets my vote for sure!

[Curator]

hughcam said:

Ford are using a similar trick bmw/porsche use against their competion - ship there new mid range products with super sticky tyres to win road tests.

Edited by hughcam on Saturday 25th June 15:56

Ah no - not true. All RHD FRS are fitted with the Michelin Supersport tyres when they leave the factory. These aren't the stickier Cup tyres and none of the RHD cars driven by journalists have had these tyres on either. Cup tyres are available via dealers but the Supersport is the better road tyre.

[RocketRS]

Matt Bird said:

Thanks for the feedback guys, you're much nicer than YouTube

I would love to try the Civic on some more aggressive tyres, I suspect it would be great. As for the everyday stuff it's hard to call; I think the Civic is perfectly liveable despite a few little gripes, but I've not spent long enough in the Focus to draw any meaningful comparisons. Hope to address that soon!

Cheers,


Matt

Matt, go back through your video and count the times you were laughing and/or smiling whilst driving the RS. Then do the same for the Honda. I rest my case.

[RocketRS]

hughcam said:

Ford are using a similar trick bmw/porsche use against their competion - ship there new mid range products with super sticky tyres to win road tests.

Edited by hughcam on Saturday 25th June 15:56

No. You're wrong.

[RocketRS]

Sitzlord said:

Drive the Type R and you will be suprised how little traction issues there are.

Edited by Sitzlord on Friday 24th June 09:48

In the most thorough-going Hot Hatch Test (AutoTrader), the Civic was booted for its lack of wet weather traction. Yes FWD has made great strides in traction, but so has AWD. And the Focus RS, Golf R, Merc A45 and the Audi RS3 all made the Civic look pretty lame in comparison. It wasn't even close.

[RocketRS]

Tickle said:

I never want to go for a spirited drive in the wet.

Some of the greatest racing ever is in wet or snowy conditions. And some of the greatest drivers ever come from places like Scandinavia, where the fun doesn't stop because the weather isn't perfect.

You don't know what your missing mate.

[rb5er]

RocketRS said:

Matt, go back through your video and count the times you were laughing and/or smiling whilst driving the RS. Then do the same for the Honda. I rest my case.

This is the point I was making earlier. Looks to be having a real laugh and getting excited in the RS with a bit more oversteer than he was aiming for and then saying the CTR was more exciting whilst just driving it around and around without ever breaking traction or grinning anywhere near as much.

From the video it looks like one was far more interesting/fun but then somehow he prefers the one he was driving home that night? Err ok, funny that.

Still be interested to see a review from someone less biassed and possibly in different conditions as it has been shown that for half of the year the roads in the UK are not bone dry like in both these PH "tests".

[Tickle]

RocketRS said:

Tickle said:

I never want to go for a spirited drive in the wet.

Some of the greatest racing ever is in wet or snowy conditions. And some of the greatest drivers ever come from places like Scandinavia, where the fun doesn't stop because the weather isn't perfect.

You don't know what your missing mate.

Over the years I have been on many organised run outs that have fell on a wet days (law of averages I guess living in the North West!).

I now prefer to just go out for a drive if it is dry, I just enjoy it more. Possibly getting softer as I get older.

[Splats]

RocketRS said:

Matt, go back through your video and count the times you were laughing and/or smiling whilst driving the RS. Then do the same for the Honda. I rest my case.

I never picked up on that at the first viewing but just watched it back. You're right, he says one thing but his body language says something completely different.

I think the fact the Civic is his long termer is the source of the problem. When you drive a car every day it begins to feel a part of you and everything else just feels a little 'alien'. I'd be interested to see if he had a Focus RS for a year what he'd think about each vehicle 12 months from now.

[AMGJocky]

RocketRS said:

Some of the greatest racing ever is in wet or snowy conditions. And some of the greatest drivers ever come from places like Scandinavia, where the fun doesn't stop because the weather isn't perfect.

You don't know what your missing mate.

Go and race in the wet/snow on a race track then and not on a road I share with you.

[RocketRS]

AMGJocky said:

Go and race in the wet/snow on a race track then and not on a road I share with you.

That's the plan.

[Steven_RW]

So... reading this and attempting to keep it simple.. are we suggesting the presenter is a liar or a confused liar?

[SteA]

I live in the countryside and spend a lot of my life driving enthusiastically on wonderful, frequently deserted country roads. Frequently, they are wet / muddy / slippy and I have absolutely no issues getting all of my 315 bhp to the road in my "old" Seat LCR, although the power delivery is deliberately very linear. Unless it is a really poor standard map on the CTR, I find it hard to believe it really has real traction issues? I also have an S3 and use a modified R400 on trackdays, and you know what? The FWD LCR can be just as much if not more fun. Most "good" cars can entertain regardless of their driven wheels.

[RocketRS]

Steven_RW said:

So... reading this and attempting to keep it simple.. are we suggesting the presenter is a liar or a confused liar?

No. Of course not. It's a matter of making it clear to prospective buyers that this review has certain limiting paradigms. And that, among Hot Hatches, the RS has capabilities the Honda simply does not have.

And if Matt's body language has anything to say about it, the RS delivers more smiles per mile.

[HighwayStar]

RocketRS said:

Steven_RW said:

So... reading this and attempting to keep it simple.. are we suggesting the presenter is a liar or a confused liar?

No. Of course not. It's a matter of making it clear to prospective buyers that this review has certain limiting paradigms. And that, among Hot Hatches, the RS has capabilities the Honda simply does not have.

And if Matt's body language has anything to say about it, the RS delivers more smiles per mile.

Jeez man, don't you think the person who wants these type of cars actually have the foresight to go out and see for themselves what they are all about? Some people just don't want an RS, no matter how good it is and want something different. We get you think it's the tits. I can see it's a good car and will most likely at least retain its value but I would never buy one.

[nickfrog]

RocketRS said:

And that, among Hot Hatches, the RS has capabilities the Honda simply does not have.

Like being 1600kgs ?

[RocketRS]

nickfrog said:

RocketRS said:

And that, among Hot Hatches, the RS has capabilities the Honda simply does not have.

Like being 1600kgs ?

So? The GTR weighs two tons. You're not buying potatoes. There's a lot more that goes into a great vehicle than weight alone.

[RocketRS]

HighwayStar said:

Jeez man, don't you think the person who wants these type of cars actually have the foresight to go out and see for themselves what they are all about? Some people just don't want an RS, no matter how good it is and want something different. We get you think it's the tits. I can see it's a good car and will most likely at least retain its value but I would never buy one.

Yes I do. And one input to their decision are the reviews they see. The comment section allows for a discussion of the review(s).

Look, I'm not getting a commission for every RS sold. Whether you like or dislike; buy or don't buy either car is of no concern to me. I'm here to offer a perspective. And provide a fair critique in civil manner.

[SidewaysSi]

FFS man give it a rest. The RS is OK, though a bit average in my opinion. 1600kg of pure lard-you can't beat physics you know. You and that RB5 guy are both the same.