RE: Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R - the video
Discussion
rb5er said:
It does make you wonder.
The way the focus was handling out of a corner certainly looked more fun in the video.
Its odd to see someone saying that they have not had much driving time in the focus and then also say how great it feels to drive and fun with a hint of oversteer and being able to power out of the corners and then exclaim that the Civic is more "exciting" despite not being able to cite a reason for that other than controls feeling a tiny bit better, nothing about the way the chassis/handling feels other than ride quality.
I have only seen 3 weeks of sunshine in the UK this year so would be interested to see the conclusion on a less than perfect day. Would they come up with the same conclusion as the rest of the motoring press in those circumstances?
Also rather than go on about the Focus having superior tyres rather than a fantastic awd system why not test one without the upgraded alloys and cup tyres?
All in all seems a somewhat biassed review in biassed conditions by someone with a fleet CTR imo.
Oh do please bugger off with these stupid comments.The way the focus was handling out of a corner certainly looked more fun in the video.
Its odd to see someone saying that they have not had much driving time in the focus and then also say how great it feels to drive and fun with a hint of oversteer and being able to power out of the corners and then exclaim that the Civic is more "exciting" despite not being able to cite a reason for that other than controls feeling a tiny bit better, nothing about the way the chassis/handling feels other than ride quality.
I have only seen 3 weeks of sunshine in the UK this year so would be interested to see the conclusion on a less than perfect day. Would they come up with the same conclusion as the rest of the motoring press in those circumstances?
Also rather than go on about the Focus having superior tyres rather than a fantastic awd system why not test one without the upgraded alloys and cup tyres?
All in all seems a somewhat biassed review in biassed conditions by someone with a fleet CTR imo.
Edited by rb5er on Thursday 23 June 19:31
The CTR is the better performing car on track. Put the CTR on equivalent tyres and it looks like it'd s
t all over the FRS.I put Pirelli P Zero on my FK2 and on a wet rutted road it feels pretty good if a little noisy. The Conti's last 6 months or so.
If Subaru offered the STI with a 350 BHP FA20F engine I think it would p*ss all over the Focus or anything else in this sector I'd imagine. They're interiors suck but the chassis is sublime.
If Subaru offered the STI with a 350 BHP FA20F engine I think it would p*ss all over the Focus or anything else in this sector I'd imagine. They're interiors suck but the chassis is sublime.
MrBarry123 said:
Oh do please bugger off with these stupid comments.
The CTR is the better performing car on track. Put the CTR on equivalent tyres and it looks like it'd st all over the FRS.
Ah ok you must have driven both then to form that opinion? Please tell me how the handling feels between the 2. What did you like most about them both? How did the CTR excel in your book?The CTR is the better performing car on track. Put the CTR on equivalent tyres and it looks like it'd s
t all over the FRS.nickfrog said:
Unless I am mistaken, the limiting factors on the road tend to be traffic, line of sight and licence preservation, not traction.
You never take your car out early on a Sunday or late at night for a blast when theres no traffic? Maybe you're not that interested by it anymore.Imo in fwd cars limited traction is always a limiting factor in anything but bone dry conditions.
I remember in 2009, the cries of "focus RS only fwd? Rubbish". Now it's "who needs awd? That must be for people that can't handle the ferocity of fwd"
rb5er said:
nickfrog said:
Unless I am mistaken, the limiting factors on the road tend to be traffic, line of sight and licence preservation, not traction.
You never take your car out early on a Sunday or late at night for a blast when theres no traffic? Maybe you're not that interested by it anymore.Imo in fwd cars limited traction is always a limiting factor in anything but bone dry conditions.
I remember in 2009, the cries of "focus RS only fwd? Rubbish". Now it's "who needs awd? That must be for people that can't handle the ferocity of fwd"
I have never criticised 2wd and no I am not that interested in road driving. But if I was, I'd much prefer a lighter / neutral 2wd car, particularly in the wet. But I have nothing against 4wd, I am glad it's there for those who rely on it.
nickfrog said:
But I have nothing against 4wd, I am glad it's there for those who rely on it.
Rely on it? Your attempt of condesention is lame.Rely on it for what? Extra wet weather and loose surface grip? The ability to go faster at all times in all but bone dry conditions? The ability to pull out of junctions with the steering wheel turned without just spinning the front tyres? Rely on it not to cause torque steer?
Yep all those rally drivers do rely on it, to help them win races as it provides massive advantage most of the time on everything but bone dry tarmac.
Tommy Makinen and Colin Mcrae I'm sure would have preferred fwd
which in reality is the bottom of the foodchain in regards to drive layout. I forgot, why do they make fwd cars again? Oh yes, cost, bootspace and predictable handling for the pootling masses.Don't get me wrong, I love plenty of fwd cars but to claim that awd is just for people that "rely on it for safety" is retarded.
MrBarry123 said:
YOU CAN'T GO FASTER AT ALL TIMES IN AN AWD CAR!!!!!
For goodness sake. AWD allows more effective acceleration in certain situations. It does not create cornering grip.
rb5er won't understand that adding weight actually reduces lateral grip as this is counter intuitive. He refuses to understand the basics of car dynamics (the traction circle) and thinks that anyone who does is condescending. Classic binary thinking.For goodness sake. AWD allows more effective acceleration in certain situations. It does not create cornering grip.
And then he will talk about rally cars who are essentially designed to work in loose surfaces in competitive environments.
Again, I am glad 4wd road cars exist, each to their own.
nickfrog said:
Lateral grip is more of a limiting factor than traction on the road.
I have never criticised 2wd and no I am not that interested in road driving. But if I was, I'd much prefer a lighter / neutral 2wd car, particularly in the wet. But I have nothing against 4wd, I am glad it's there for those who rely on it.
RWD in wet is great, challenging or fun [or both] depending on what you are trying to do. Not sure how you can imply FWD is good; I find it boring. Having the front end scrabbling around for grip isn't comparable to having power oversteer from a RWD. Metering out the power in a FWD isn't, in my view, challenging either, it's just frustraiting and boring.I have never criticised 2wd and no I am not that interested in road driving. But if I was, I'd much prefer a lighter / neutral 2wd car, particularly in the wet. But I have nothing against 4wd, I am glad it's there for those who rely on it.
I drive a Leon FR Diesel, which is no hot-hatch but it does have a lot of torque and a mild electronic diff. If you are really trying to hoof on, link up some corners and have a good time it's just a PITA - it scrabbles about and bleeds away power and progress. Sometimes, for about 5 minutes, it can be fun/challenging to meter out the power and feel the ediff tugging the front end round as it applies the inside brake. It still can't get close to the enjoyment from RWD or 4WD cars.
MrBarry123 said:
YOU CAN'T GO FASTER AT ALL TIMES IN AN AWD CAR!!!!!
For goodness sake. AWD allows more effective acceleration in certain situations. It does not create cornering grip.
Not more grip as that is effectively down to contact patch, but traction, yes it does provide lots more. 4 wheels have turning force rather than 2, so perhaps the same grip entering a corner and just holding on but lots more traction on exit.For goodness sake. AWD allows more effective acceleration in certain situations. It does not create cornering grip.
Splats said:
nickfrog said:
Lateral grip is more of a limiting factor than traction on the road.
I have never criticised 2wd and no I am not that interested in road driving. But if I was, I'd much prefer a lighter / neutral 2wd car, particularly in the wet. But I have nothing against 4wd, I am glad it's there for those who rely on it.
RWD in wet is great, challenging or fun [or both] depending on what you are trying to do. Not sure how you can imply FWD is good; I find it boring. Having the front end scrabbling around for grip isn't comparable to having power oversteer from a RWD. Metering out the power in a FWD isn't, in my view, challenging either, it's just frustraiting and boring.I have never criticised 2wd and no I am not that interested in road driving. But if I was, I'd much prefer a lighter / neutral 2wd car, particularly in the wet. But I have nothing against 4wd, I am glad it's there for those who rely on it.
I drive a Leon FR Diesel, which is no hot-hatch but it does have a lot of torque and a mild electronic diff. If you are really trying to hoof on, link up some corners and have a good time it's just a PITA - it scrabbles about and bleeds away power and progress. Sometimes, for about 5 minutes, it can be fun/challenging to meter out the power and feel the ediff tugging the front end round as it applies the inside brake. It still can't get close to the enjoyment from RWD or 4WD cars.
Axionknight said:
Here comes rb5er and his inability to accept other people's opinions again!
Yaaaaaaaay!
Oh look here comes another CTR owner. I guess you are right, I find it hard to accept the opinions of 2 very biassed tests. Yaaaaaaaay!
All I'd like to see is both these cars on similar road tyres (so that that is not stated as an unfair advantage) but not just in bone dry conditions. 2 PH tests now and both on the only sunny days of the year, funny that.
Like I said I have seen just a very few weeks of hot and dry conditions with the rest of the year being wet and rubbish. A bit of balance might be nice rather than 2 reviews with biassed conditions. I'm not talking torrential rain but you know, damp roads from yesterdays rain as happens so often might be a bit more indicative of typical UK weather, oh and maybe a Ford fanboi doing the opinionating instead.
rb5er said:
MrBarry123 said:
YOU CAN'T GO FASTER AT ALL TIMES IN AN AWD CAR!!!!!
For goodness sake. AWD allows more effective acceleration in certain situations. It does not create cornering grip.
Not more grip as that is effectively down to contact patch, but traction, yes it does provide lots more. 4 wheels have turning force rather than 2, so perhaps the same grip entering a corner and just holding on but lots more traction on exit.For goodness sake. AWD allows more effective acceleration in certain situations. It does not create cornering grip.
rb5er said:
Oh look here comes another CTR owner. I guess you are right, I find it hard to accept the opinions of 2 very biassed tests.
All I'd like to see is both these cars on similar road tyres (so that that is not stated as an unfair advantage) but not just in bone dry conditions. 2 PH tests now and both on the only sunny days of the year, funny that.
Like I said I have seen just a very few weeks of hot and dry conditions with the rest of the year being wet and rubbish. A bit of balance might be nice rather than 2 reviews with biassed conditions. I'm not talking torrential rain but you know, damp roads from yesterdays rain as happens so often might be a bit more indicative of typical UK weather, oh and maybe a Ford fanboi doing the opinionating instead.
All evidence shows that the most of the UK and most of Europe are dry for most of the year.All I'd like to see is both these cars on similar road tyres (so that that is not stated as an unfair advantage) but not just in bone dry conditions. 2 PH tests now and both on the only sunny days of the year, funny that.
Like I said I have seen just a very few weeks of hot and dry conditions with the rest of the year being wet and rubbish. A bit of balance might be nice rather than 2 reviews with biassed conditions. I'm not talking torrential rain but you know, damp roads from yesterdays rain as happens so often might be a bit more indicative of typical UK weather, oh and maybe a Ford fanboi doing the opinionating instead.
Just admit and be happy you prefer the RS for the minority of wet days, which is fair enough.
There's no need to invent a climate that doesn't exist.
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