Petition to stop practice of "surface dressing" on roads
Discussion
smithyithy said:
Trabi601 said:
You seem to know about this stuff.
My local council seem to be using a slightly different technique this year - initially, you can see they're laying down the traditionally coloured chippings, however, they seem to then be going back over with some kind of binding agent which can be seen from a darkened finish. This isn't just traffic bedding it in, it seems to be part of the process - and there are very few left over chippings on the road.
Any ideas?
As mentioned further back, that's a more recent 'additional' product that more contractors are using now.My local council seem to be using a slightly different technique this year - initially, you can see they're laying down the traditionally coloured chippings, however, they seem to then be going back over with some kind of binding agent which can be seen from a darkened finish. This isn't just traffic bedding it in, it seems to be part of the process - and there are very few left over chippings on the road.
Any ideas?
Our contractor for surface dressing is a company called RMS and their 'surface dressing' product, or CAUTS (Cold Applied Ultra-Thin Surfacing) as we now call it.
The spray-on product acts as an emulsion of sorts, it can be applied after the initial sweep. It seals the surface and provides a nice black finish. It's about 20% the cost of the surface dressing system, so even though surface dressing is about being as cost-effective as possible, this additional spray treatment is easily added to the works when you've already got the contractor, plant and traffic management out on site.
You'll start to see it more often, it adds a few quid to the job but it's absolutely worth doing. A lot of the time, the gen public won't be able to tell if it's surface dressing or asphalt once it's set.
So while it gets residents off the council's back for a while it is only kicking the can a very short way up the road.
The trouble is, the roads budget and the directive for addressing road maintenance is flipped on it's head every 12 months by the clueless lot that dish the money out.
One year we're resurfacing miles and miles of dual carriageway with proper asphalt, the next year we're doing half-land patches and throwing surface dressing on roads that are structurally 5 times as bad.
Each year we / they are told how much money we can have, how much we can actually spend, what we can and can't treat and how can and can't go about doing so.
Local authorities even moreso have their hands tied, pretty much everything that is complained about is echoed by those that are tasked with maintaining the roads.
A couple of years ago, Cameron wanted 80% of the strategic road network resurfaced by 2020. So we modelled ourselves around that and developed a new way to value manage and design schemes going forward. A year later that's dropped, the budget is slashed and we're back to doing patching works. It's crap.
One year we're resurfacing miles and miles of dual carriageway with proper asphalt, the next year we're doing half-land patches and throwing surface dressing on roads that are structurally 5 times as bad.
Each year we / they are told how much money we can have, how much we can actually spend, what we can and can't treat and how can and can't go about doing so.
Local authorities even moreso have their hands tied, pretty much everything that is complained about is echoed by those that are tasked with maintaining the roads.
A couple of years ago, Cameron wanted 80% of the strategic road network resurfaced by 2020. So we modelled ourselves around that and developed a new way to value manage and design schemes going forward. A year later that's dropped, the budget is slashed and we're back to doing patching works. It's crap.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127577
Just re-posting the link to the petition for anyone (like me) joining the discussion now.
On the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn between July 2005 and June 2010 there were twenty one reported collisions and no fatalities. In June 2010 it was given it's first annual top dressing instead of maintaining the roads hard surface and from July 2010 to June 2015 there were thirty seven reported collisions an increase of 76% and five fatalities.
Two of those fatalities were children under the age of ten years old.
No change to the speed limit.
Less than a 5% increase in traffic volume.
No alterations to any junctions or the road layout.
The only difference between those periods was the surface going from hard tarmac to top dressing.
This surface is unsafe, unfit for purpose, environmentally unsound, not cost effective and causes chaos as it has to be redone every year instead of every five to ten years.
Not to mention potential damage to paintwork, bright work, windscreens, lights and the underside of vehicles.
I think we should all get on board with this one. Well done for bringing it up. I was close to doing so myself.
Just re-posting the link to the petition for anyone (like me) joining the discussion now.
On the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn between July 2005 and June 2010 there were twenty one reported collisions and no fatalities. In June 2010 it was given it's first annual top dressing instead of maintaining the roads hard surface and from July 2010 to June 2015 there were thirty seven reported collisions an increase of 76% and five fatalities.
Two of those fatalities were children under the age of ten years old.
No change to the speed limit.
Less than a 5% increase in traffic volume.
No alterations to any junctions or the road layout.
The only difference between those periods was the surface going from hard tarmac to top dressing.
This surface is unsafe, unfit for purpose, environmentally unsound, not cost effective and causes chaos as it has to be redone every year instead of every five to ten years.
Not to mention potential damage to paintwork, bright work, windscreens, lights and the underside of vehicles.
I think we should all get on board with this one. Well done for bringing it up. I was close to doing so myself.
DavidJG said:
We had the main road through our village 'dressed' last summer.
It's now back to the condition is was before being dressed. Utter waste of time and money.
They all seem to end up like that and as quickly. Waste of OUR money. I wonder if those responsible are ever accountable for anything.It's now back to the condition is was before being dressed. Utter waste of time and money.
Surely more cost effective is to spend a bit more and do the job properly, at least use a roller to roll the chippings in. The road may then last 10 years or more before requiring work like they used to.
I had a bit of a rant about this (surprised?) on the knob thread a month ago when they fly tipped kitty litter on the A17 and it had to be done the next day as they chose the warmest bloody weekend of the year to do it. 
That's why I made inquiries about the A17
In my rant I pointed out that in developed parts of the world like Korea and parts of Africa that are difficult to pronounce they strip the top surface, grind it, mix in fresh tar and resurface the road with that. It's more cost effective, leaves a much better quality road and could even be thought of as recycling.
Why can't they do it over here?
That's why I made inquiries about the A17
In my rant I pointed out that in developed parts of the world like Korea and parts of Africa that are difficult to pronounce they strip the top surface, grind it, mix in fresh tar and resurface the road with that. It's more cost effective, leaves a much better quality road and could even be thought of as recycling.
Why can't they do it over here?
Liquid Knight said:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127577
Just re-posting the link to the petition for anyone (like me) joining the discussion now.
On the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn between July 2005 and June 2010 there were twenty one reported collisions and no fatalities. In June 2010 it was given it's first annual top dressing instead of maintaining the roads hard surface and from July 2010 to June 2015 there were thirty seven reported collisions an increase of 76% and five fatalities.
Two of those fatalities were children under the age of ten years old.
No change to the speed limit.
Less than a 5% increase in traffic volume.
No alterations to any junctions or the road layout.
The only difference between those periods was the surface going from hard tarmac to top dressing.
This surface is unsafe, unfit for purpose, environmentally unsound, not cost effective and causes chaos as it has to be redone every year instead of every five to ten years.
Not to mention potential damage to paintwork, bright work, windscreens, lights and the underside of vehicles.
I think we should all get on board with this one. Well done for bringing it up. I was close to doing so myself.
I rode that road on my motorbike the last time it was done, I had to stop and try to get the stones off with a discarded banana skin. It's come to something when it's safer to clean your tyres with a banana...Just re-posting the link to the petition for anyone (like me) joining the discussion now.
On the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn between July 2005 and June 2010 there were twenty one reported collisions and no fatalities. In June 2010 it was given it's first annual top dressing instead of maintaining the roads hard surface and from July 2010 to June 2015 there were thirty seven reported collisions an increase of 76% and five fatalities.
Two of those fatalities were children under the age of ten years old.
No change to the speed limit.
Less than a 5% increase in traffic volume.
No alterations to any junctions or the road layout.
The only difference between those periods was the surface going from hard tarmac to top dressing.
This surface is unsafe, unfit for purpose, environmentally unsound, not cost effective and causes chaos as it has to be redone every year instead of every five to ten years.
Not to mention potential damage to paintwork, bright work, windscreens, lights and the underside of vehicles.
I think we should all get on board with this one. Well done for bringing it up. I was close to doing so myself.
f
king lethal doesn't cover it 
WinstonWolf said:
I rode that road on my motorbike the last time it was done, I had to stop and try to get the stones off with a discarded banana skin. It's come to something when it's safer to clean your tyres with a banana...
fking lethal doesn't cover it
They've put kitty litter and average speed cameras on that road now so all the knuckle draggers take the old road flat out through the villages. f
king lethal doesn't cover it There's a short national speed limit section between Walpole Cross Keys and Terrington St Clement with a lovely dogleg bend just before the change back to thirty. There have been so many vehicles overcook that bend and end up on the wrong side of the road, verge or ditch the Police have put a mobile CCTV camera there.
deeps said:
Signed and forwarded the link to others.
They are currently at full force in the Sedgemoor area of Somerset throwing this litter all over the roads. It's almost impossible to get out of town now, fingers crossed there's still one route they haven't ruined yet.
Devon is quickly going the same way - the annoying thing is - many of the roads they're 'dressing' weren't in bad nick, whereas quite a few of the most pothole-ridden horrors have been nicely left alone.They are currently at full force in the Sedgemoor area of Somerset throwing this litter all over the roads. It's almost impossible to get out of town now, fingers crossed there's still one route they haven't ruined yet.
Priorities!
Found out to my horror this morning that they are doing all round Hatfield Forest at the moment. I had to turn round on my bike & go back the way I'd came.
I know it isn't Hatfield Forests or rather the National trusts fault but I feel as though they should have said something, if I can't get there then I'm gonna go elsewhere in the mornings & if I had any dogs I'd take them to crap somewhere else.
I know it isn't Hatfield Forests or rather the National trusts fault but I feel as though they should have said something, if I can't get there then I'm gonna go elsewhere in the mornings & if I had any dogs I'd take them to crap somewhere else.
mygoldfishbowl said:
Found out to my horror this morning that they are doing all round Hatfield Forest at the moment. I had to turn round on my bike & go back the way I'd came.
I know it isn't Hatfield Forests or rather the National trusts fault but I feel as though they should have said something, if I can't get there then I'm gonna go elsewhere in the mornings & if I had any dogs I'd take them to crap somewhere else.
Ermm- can you explain your second para? In what sense do you think the NT , for example , have anything remotely to do with road maintenance or nay power to influence it ? I know it isn't Hatfield Forests or rather the National trusts fault but I feel as though they should have said something, if I can't get there then I'm gonna go elsewhere in the mornings & if I had any dogs I'd take them to crap somewhere else.
Unless somebody can come up with a very clever idea (like finding a money tree)how do signatories of teh petition think highway authorities will afford to do 'proper' maintenance? Last time I checked we had enjoyed an austerity programme since 2010... so you want a massive increase in public sector spending - and to prioritise roads over trivial stuff like NHS spending , care for elderly , education etc ?
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