RE: Audi R8 'too good': Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Drove the new one recently, and know where the author is coming from. I have a 2010 manual V10 and find the whole experience a bit more of an event (If a little slower !!) and a tad more exciting to drive. This then puts a lot of folk in a bit of a dilemma, what to get next ? With everything going small bore and turbo, the days of naturally aspirated big block cars with MT's is fast coming to an end. There are the occasional production runs from the likes of Aston (New V12 manual vantage) and Porsche (911R) but these cars are twice the original price before even hitting the road, which makes them out of the reach of most. I hope soon, that the manufacturers realise there are still a percentage out there who want a car that's visceral and brings up goose bumps when you bury your foot, the problem will be, is that percentage large enough ??
I don't get how in this day why we can't have our cake and eat it. We have the tech to make reliable cars with mega performance that are comfy and useable, why can't we use this to make fun cars? An everyday car can still be fun, all it takes is some steering feel and nicely weighted controls. You could still make the R8 have the exact same performance all you need to do is refine the actual driving fun, bin off the driving modes and just make it good. It can still be damped well and corner properly you just need the engineers to do their job.
Audemars said:
Audi cars look bland. The R8 is fugly just like all Porsches. If you like Porsches you will probably like the R8.
Audi even ruined the Gallardo replacement.
I laughed at this, had a 997 Turbo before the R8, think they are both beautiful cars ? Time for spec savers for me possibly ?? :-)Audi even ruined the Gallardo replacement.
J4CKO said:
Bet it is less now......
HA!I will also add a vote for a return to single-clutch boxes for the automatic option. I would still rather a manual, but would take an R-Tronic/SMG any day over a dual clutch. I have been running SMG for a year now in an M3 CS. It's grumpy on a cold morning but shifting up at 8k in S5 or S6 mode is a glorious display of brutality and mechanical awesomeness, much more entertaining than a fart and a tone change.
The good thing about the first gen R8 was that it wasn't really tied down. It moved around loads, even on super sticky tyres. The V8 and the V10 were both great engines, with the manual gearbox of course. It also looks everything it doesn't in print - low, wide, exotic. Plus you get the benefit of it "just" being an Audi - people don't give a s
t about it, whereas you'll get wker signs galore in your lambo or ferrari. Sure, it's a big flaw in the British little-man psyche, but still something we have to live with until the half-wits grow up.
Is the new one too good? Well the fact it has an automatic gearbox would put me off immediately. I don't get why anyone would want this.. Speed? Who cares, we're not racing. All you end up doing is going faster on the road, and go to jail/catch the next car quicker. Plus you can't blip the throttle without it being a very deliberate "I'm going to put it in neutral to show off" move, which is really tacky.
I don't think Audi (specifically) has thrown anything out; I think the whole car industry has lost its way. I find it infuriating how neither the journalists nor the public can see the ste we're being shovelled. New Porsche Panamera turbo is quicker around the 'ring than a carrera gt? That tells me all I need to know. We've lost the plot entirely.
t about it, whereas you'll get wker signs galore in your lambo or ferrari. Sure, it's a big flaw in the British little-man psyche, but still something we have to live with until the half-wits grow up. Is the new one too good? Well the fact it has an automatic gearbox would put me off immediately. I don't get why anyone would want this.. Speed? Who cares, we're not racing. All you end up doing is going faster on the road, and go to jail/catch the next car quicker. Plus you can't blip the throttle without it being a very deliberate "I'm going to put it in neutral to show off" move, which is really tacky.
I don't think Audi (specifically) has thrown anything out; I think the whole car industry has lost its way. I find it infuriating how neither the journalists nor the public can see the s
te we're being shovelled. New Porsche Panamera turbo is quicker around the 'ring than a carrera gt? That tells me all I need to know. We've lost the plot entirely. SirSquidalot said:
I don't get how in this day why we can't have our cake and eat it. We have the tech to make reliable cars with mega performance that are comfy and useable, why can't we use this to make fun cars? An everyday car can still be fun, all it takes is some steering feel and nicely weighted controls. You could still make the R8 have the exact same performance all you need to do is refine the actual driving fun, bin off the driving modes and just make it good. It can still be damped well and corner properly you just need the engineers to do their job.
It's because they're conflicting requirements. The trouble with these cars is that the engineers have done their jobs. What is needed is a passionate, human and perhaps slightly immature driver heading up the engineering team. Engineers just engineer until they're told to stop engineering. I know engineers. Things tend to be black and white. A characteristic is either desirable or undesirable. Striking a compromise on characteristics is very difficult for a team.This class of car seems like the hardest to get right. A normal Audi is easy. They're all terrible drivers' cars - completely numb, but competent. Engineers can work with that. TVRs and Caterhams are also easy - the customers like the car to be very involving. That really means it needs to be driven all of the time. That's what the driver sees as fun.
Supercars though are odd. They're often bought as status symbols by people who don't like driving the car - they want to be seen to be a great driver without doing anything. They'll only buy the car if it has credentials though. Making a car go really, really fast safely enough for many of the tossers who buy these cars to be seen in involves engineering out the sort of stability and steering properties that TVR drivers enjoy about TVRs.
IMO that's what sets the likes of Ferrari and McLaren a tier above anything 911 Turbos or Audi R8s will ever be. Pre-Audi Lamborghinis were so hard to drive you won man-points just by driving one, and that was cool too. That Ferrari and McLaren can build cars this fast without boring the drivers who do want some involvement is a credit to them.
It's not really about whether engineers can do their jobs properly; it's about whether a car can be demanding enough to make the driver concentrate, whilst simultaneously being undemanding enough to drive down the M6 at 4am when feeling pretty groggy without stacking it.
R8 - I couldn't pay so much for an Audi.
If I knew anyone with one I would ask - Why did you pay so much for an Audi? Surely you could have bought something a more fun with a better badge or just bought an RS6 if you wanted a fast Audi and a Seven (or similar) with the change for fun?
My experience of these cars (I live near motorhub ) are of certain types driving them through the centre of town / villages in first gear at high revs being very "look at me". not very safe as I assume they are still capable of 40-50 mph in 1st. I saw similar things the last time I was in London.
I could never get over it being a TT-esque looker (I don't like TT's either). I have driven very few Audi's and hope I will not have the misfortune to do so again - unless they change their driving dynamics.
As a car, it looks modern, is well equipped and I am sure Audi have got past lying about N-cap ratings so it might also be safe. I am sure it is competent in what it sets out to do and be.
Too good? No, as there seems to be many flaws, including dull dynamics, badge perception, price and styling.
If I knew anyone with one I would ask - Why did you pay so much for an Audi? Surely you could have bought something a more fun with a better badge or just bought an RS6 if you wanted a fast Audi and a Seven (or similar) with the change for fun?
My experience of these cars (I live near motorhub ) are of certain types driving them through the centre of town / villages in first gear at high revs being very "look at me". not very safe as I assume they are still capable of 40-50 mph in 1st. I saw similar things the last time I was in London.
I could never get over it being a TT-esque looker (I don't like TT's either). I have driven very few Audi's and hope I will not have the misfortune to do so again - unless they change their driving dynamics.
As a car, it looks modern, is well equipped and I am sure Audi have got past lying about N-cap ratings so it might also be safe. I am sure it is competent in what it sets out to do and be.
Too good? No, as there seems to be many flaws, including dull dynamics, badge perception, price and styling.
Having had the pleasure of driving the new V10 I'd agree that yes it is unbelievably quick but a bit lacking in soul. I can vouch for the fact that for the same money you can still grab a late Lamborghini Gallardo which delivers emotion and drama in the manner that you'd hope of a Lamborghini. Long live emotion and drama. Both are vanishing fast!
PunterCam said:
The good thing about the first gen R8 was that it wasn't really tied down. It moved around loads, even on super sticky tyres. The V8 and the V10 were both great engines, with the manual gearbox of course. It also looks everything it doesn't in print - low, wide, exotic. Plus you get the benefit of it "just" being an Audi - people don't give a st about it, whereas you'll get wker signs galore in your lambo or ferrari. Sure, it's a big flaw in the British little-man psyche, but still something we have to live with until the half-wits grow up.
Suprised me how "frisky" the R8 is, not as much as I surprised the instructor....t about it, whereas you'll get wker signs galore in your lambo or ferrari. Sure, it's a big flaw in the British little-man psyche, but still something we have to live with until the half-wits grow up. 
I am a total convert, drove a 360 the same day and would need longer to form a proper opinion but the R8 felt loads better to me, suspect the Ferrari might deliver more for those with more time with it, was instantly at home in the R8, had another go (keep getting these driving things) and loved it as much as the first time, V8 Vantage was nice, 996 Turbo was effective but the R8 I would say is the pick of the bunch I have driven, well, apart from a 964 turbo, with a hangover on a wet Swiss road, did wonder how something like that was available to the public !
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