RE: Jaguar XFR: PH Buying Guide
Discussion
wormus said:
V88Dicky said:
JLR's reliability figures are dragged way down by LandRover / RangeRover, and to a lesser extent by diesel powered Jags.
Jaguar petrols are damned reliable. For example, have a look at the XK in the reliability indexes, it's the most reliable car in it's class (large GT). It scores way higher than the BMW 6 series, Audi A5, various Merc coupes etc.
The JLR reliability is a myth perpetuated by Internet 'experts' I've owned a few Discoveries over the past decade and they've been fine. Think about it, if they were really that crap, would you see so many on the street? Jaguar petrols are damned reliable. For example, have a look at the XK in the reliability indexes, it's the most reliable car in it's class (large GT). It scores way higher than the BMW 6 series, Audi A5, various Merc coupes etc.
Just my twopenneth.
However, the absolute most reliable car I've ever had, was Australian.
Raven Flyer said:
I can't quite work out why it isn't much faster with that much power on tap.
An RS6 is approx 1 second faster in the dash. That's a huge difference.
There are now diesels, of similar weight, that will embarrass this car out of a toll booth.
Big RWD saloons, whatever the power dont really drop under 4 seconds to sixty, usually mid to late fours as after a point any more power is irrelevant without some drag slicks, even the 700 bhp plus Hellcat "only" manages 4 sec to sixty, stick some super sticky tyres on it drops to 2.9 though, normally though traction is down to two small patches of road tyre, hence why Audis post faster acceleration figures, once rolling, that advantage is much less, in fact then, you arent carrying the extra hardware and having the extra drivetrain losses of 4wd.An RS6 is approx 1 second faster in the dash. That's a huge difference.
There are now diesels, of similar weight, that will embarrass this car out of a toll booth.
Sub 5 sec is still very quick, 9.5 to 100 is pretty decent, how fast do you need to go and remember figures are only part of the story, there is so much more to cars like this, a Golf R will be not far off as quick and faster from a standastill with a bit of a remap but there is a reason these cost twice as much.
ALso, you can get anther 90 bhp for £1500 or so I believe, nearly six hundred horsepower, anyone got a tuned one ?
basherX said:
carlpea said:
Running costs are minimal:
£260 - £400 annual service depending on type (At a Jaguar dealer)
Tyres aren't too bad (£150 front £180 rears)
Tax is in the £5XX bracket but you probably knew that already
Insurance is £600 (32, 10+ years NCD, 3 points).
It's as mad and relentless as it is sedate, depending on your mood. Get one
Yeah, but what's the catch? This is one of those internet scams that I don't understand, isn't it? Nothing's that simple is it?£260 - £400 annual service depending on type (At a Jaguar dealer)
Tyres aren't too bad (£150 front £180 rears)
Tax is in the £5XX bracket but you probably knew that already
Insurance is £600 (32, 10+ years NCD, 3 points).
It's as mad and relentless as it is sedate, depending on your mood. Get one
Edited by carlpea on Sunday 3rd July 13:19
The bush where bolt 6 goes through is a conventional rubber bush; these seem to last ok. The two highlighted by red arrows, along with the two on the upper control arm are sealed joints. As any of these wear they start to move which makes the car very tail happy. I've replaced them all on my S-Type.
It won't / hasn't put me off though.
WojaWabbit said:
jamieduff1981 said:
I adore my R-S saloon.....
... up the A947....
Are you V8 W*R?... up the A947....
Always brings a smile to my face when I'm on my bike and it rumbles past
I hope I've been giving you plenty room!? Give me a wave next time so I know which cyclist you are
There's a guy I often pass between Newmachar and Dyce. Is that you?Turquoise said:
Fond of these.
Do they get modified/tuned much?
A simple pulley swap and a remap from somebody who knows these engines/ecu's will see 620ish HP. Do they get modified/tuned much?
A remap alone, again by somebody who knows the engine, should see you up to around 575bhp. Biggest difference seemed to be made in the high revs, pulling even harder towards the redline where standard car would normally tail off slightly.
The engine in the R's and RS's is identical, there are some minor exhaust changes but the bulk of the power is software changes.
I have an XKR but the principle is the same.
Servicing is also cheap under Jaguars plus 3 scheme (any cars over 3 years old, including R's which is slightly confusing when looking at the literature). Major B service is £300.
Effjay said:
Turquoise said:
Fond of these.
Do they get modified/tuned much?
A simple pulley swap and a remap from somebody who knows these engines/ecu's will see 620ish HP. Do they get modified/tuned much?
A remap alone, again by somebody who knows the engine, should see you up to around 575bhp. Biggest difference seemed to be made in the high revs, pulling even harder towards the redline where standard car would normally tail off slightly.
The engine in the R's and RS's is identical, there are some minor exhaust changes but the bulk of the power is software changes.
I have an XKR but the principle is the same.
Servicing is also cheap under Jaguars plus 3 scheme (any cars over 3 years old, including R's which is slightly confusing when looking at the literature). Major B service is £300.
The XFR-S blurb says it has a different air filter set up, but it looks pretty much the same to me. The exhaust is pretty much what you get if you go for the full Spires set-up with cross-over and centre box delete.
I'll re-iterate J4CKO's post though, in cautioning that whilst fun the car won't really be any quicker on the road. If you're at Santa Pod or wherever then there will be some decent gains above road-legal speeds though:
J4CKO said:
Big RWD saloons, whatever the power dont really drop under 4 seconds to sixty, usually mid to late fours as after a point any more power is irrelevant without some drag slicks, even the 700 bhp plus Hellcat "only" manages 4 sec to sixty, stick some super sticky tyres on it drops to 2.9 though, normally though traction is down to two small patches of road tyre, hence why Audis post faster acceleration figures, once rolling, that advantage is much less, in fact then, you arent carrying the extra hardware and having the extra drivetrain losses of 4wd.
Sub 5 sec is still very quick, 9.5 to 100 is pretty decent, how fast do you need to go and remember figures are only part of the story, there is so much more to cars like this, a Golf R will be not far off as quick and faster from a standastill with a bit of a remap but there is a reason these cost twice as much.
ALso, you can get anther 90 bhp for £1500 or so I believe, nearly six hundred horsepower, anyone got a tuned one ?
Sub 5 sec is still very quick, 9.5 to 100 is pretty decent, how fast do you need to go and remember figures are only part of the story, there is so much more to cars like this, a Golf R will be not far off as quick and faster from a standastill with a bit of a remap but there is a reason these cost twice as much.
ALso, you can get anther 90 bhp for £1500 or so I believe, nearly six hundred horsepower, anyone got a tuned one ?
Almost 20000 miles done in the last 18 months in mine. Been pretty much faultless. Only niggles being a fleeting gearbox fault message that the dealer examined and reset the software for at service time and a broken bonnet hinge which I think was caused by me not lifting when going through some resurfacing works on a dual carriageway.
I have treated the car (or myself) to a set of Mina Back boxes and a pair of up rated panel filters- my route to work now involves more tunnels than it used to before! It was put on the rolling road a few weeks back and showed a pretty healthy output:
Comparing notes with my younger brother who had his ISF on the same rolling road I think that the results might be overstating things by about 10-15 bhp but it shows how the cars are under rated out of the factory.
I am a year off looking to replace it but like others I struggle to think what I will go for. It is just as comfortable taking my son to nursery and doing the dreary commute to work as it is "making progress" on a B road somewhere in North Yorkshire. Having come from an X350 XJ with its air suspension the ride is firm but forgiving and now I have fixed the one disappointing element which was the muted noise from the V8 as standard it is pretty much perfect. If you haven't got the space/£ for a two car fleet I think it is the perfect alternative.
I have treated the car (or myself) to a set of Mina Back boxes and a pair of up rated panel filters- my route to work now involves more tunnels than it used to before! It was put on the rolling road a few weeks back and showed a pretty healthy output:
Comparing notes with my younger brother who had his ISF on the same rolling road I think that the results might be overstating things by about 10-15 bhp but it shows how the cars are under rated out of the factory.
I am a year off looking to replace it but like others I struggle to think what I will go for. It is just as comfortable taking my son to nursery and doing the dreary commute to work as it is "making progress" on a B road somewhere in North Yorkshire. Having come from an X350 XJ with its air suspension the ride is firm but forgiving and now I have fixed the one disappointing element which was the muted noise from the V8 as standard it is pretty much perfect. If you haven't got the space/£ for a two car fleet I think it is the perfect alternative.
jamieduff1981 said:
Aye that's me. It's also my first PH spot
I hope I've been giving you plenty room!? Give me a wave next time so I know which cyclist you are There's a guy I often pass between Newmachar and Dyce. Is that you?
I hope I've been giving you plenty room!? Give me a wave next time so I know which cyclist you are
There's a guy I often pass between Newmachar and Dyce. Is that you?
Don't worry, plenty room for my fat backside!
You've passed a few times on my post-work ride heading out that direction, but mainly in the mornings coming in from Dyce.
We also appear to work for the same company... I noticed the car in the under-cover park last week
I had my XFR for nearly 2 years, did 40,000 miles in it, awesome thing, same dilemma of what to get next, tried an F10 M5 and RS6, both feel uninspiring and feel too mundane inside, too much like there 2.0d cousins, AMG Merc way too chintzy and don't like being looked up and down in the dealers.....in the end plumbed for this.....
Bit more subtle but love it, XJ Supersport, same motor, you might find this hard to believe but in many ways it feels sportier than the XFR, exhaust marginally fruitier, can hear the supercharger whine at high revs, steering feels lighter and whole car feels a bit lighter on its feet, throttle calibration seems better at low speed too, as if they sorted out some of the XFR issues on this.
In SWB form like mine its around 50kg lighter too (depending on what you read!) thanks to an aluminium monocoque so a tough quicker in a straight line, best figures I have seen are car and driver in the USA, 0-60 in 4.1 and 0-100 in 9.1, about half a second quicker than the XFR by the same team.
I know its a bit 'old man' compared to the XFR but equipment levels and interior are a step up, panoramic roof etc etc, can you tell I like it??????
Bit more subtle but love it, XJ Supersport, same motor, you might find this hard to believe but in many ways it feels sportier than the XFR, exhaust marginally fruitier, can hear the supercharger whine at high revs, steering feels lighter and whole car feels a bit lighter on its feet, throttle calibration seems better at low speed too, as if they sorted out some of the XFR issues on this.
In SWB form like mine its around 50kg lighter too (depending on what you read!) thanks to an aluminium monocoque so a tough quicker in a straight line, best figures I have seen are car and driver in the USA, 0-60 in 4.1 and 0-100 in 9.1, about half a second quicker than the XFR by the same team.
I know its a bit 'old man' compared to the XFR but equipment levels and interior are a step up, panoramic roof etc etc, can you tell I like it??????
skinthespin said:
I had my XFR for nearly 2 years, did 40,000 miles in it, awesome thing, same dilemma of what to get next, tried an F10 M5 and RS6, both feel uninspiring and feel too mundane inside, too much like there 2.0d cousins, AMG Merc way too chintzy and don't like being looked up and down in the dealers.....in the end plumbed for this.....
Bit more subtle but love it, XJ Supersport, same motor, you might find this hard to believe but in many ways it feels sportier than the XFR, exhaust marginally fruitier, can hear the supercharger whine at high revs, steering feels lighter and whole car feels a bit lighter on its feet, throttle calibration seems better at low speed too, as if they sorted out some of the XFR issues on this.
In SWB form like mine its around 50kg lighter too (depending on what you read!) thanks to an aluminium monocoque so a tough quicker in a straight line, best figures I have seen are car and driver in the USA, 0-60 in 4.1 and 0-100 in 9.1, about half a second quicker than the XFR by the same team.
I know its a bit 'old man' compared to the XFR but equipment levels and interior are a step up, panoramic roof etc etc, can you tell I like it??????
Looks great. I love the current XJ; wasn't sure when it first came out but it's grown on me, partly because, unlike ze Germans, it doesn't just look like a bigger version of one of their lesser models.Bit more subtle but love it, XJ Supersport, same motor, you might find this hard to believe but in many ways it feels sportier than the XFR, exhaust marginally fruitier, can hear the supercharger whine at high revs, steering feels lighter and whole car feels a bit lighter on its feet, throttle calibration seems better at low speed too, as if they sorted out some of the XFR issues on this.
In SWB form like mine its around 50kg lighter too (depending on what you read!) thanks to an aluminium monocoque so a tough quicker in a straight line, best figures I have seen are car and driver in the USA, 0-60 in 4.1 and 0-100 in 9.1, about half a second quicker than the XFR by the same team.
I know its a bit 'old man' compared to the XFR but equipment levels and interior are a step up, panoramic roof etc etc, can you tell I like it??????
basherX said:
carlpea said:
Running costs are minimal:
£260 - £400 annual service depending on type (At a Jaguar dealer)
Tyres aren't too bad (£150 front £180 rears)
Tax is in the £5XX bracket but you probably knew that already
Insurance is £600 (32, 10+ years NCD, 3 points).
It's as mad and relentless as it is sedate, depending on your mood. Get one
Yeah, but what's the catch? This is one of those internet scams that I don't understand, isn't it? Nothing's that simple is it?£260 - £400 annual service depending on type (At a Jaguar dealer)
Tyres aren't too bad (£150 front £180 rears)
Tax is in the £5XX bracket but you probably knew that already
Insurance is £600 (32, 10+ years NCD, 3 points).
It's as mad and relentless as it is sedate, depending on your mood. Get one
Edited by carlpea on Sunday 3rd July 13:19
V88Dicky said:
I see where you're coming from Wormus, but I'm only going off real world breakdown claims and actual accounts from friends and owners, in so far as Rangies are concerned. I've owned petrol powered Jags for over 10 years and they've been way better than previous Japanese and German motors that I've owned.
Just my twopenneth.
However, the absolute most reliable car I've ever had, was Australian.
I've had 3 Range Rovers and now a Sport, V8 petrols and diesels, I had a air suspension compressor go on one but other than that they've all been fine.Just my twopenneth.
However, the absolute most reliable car I've ever had, was Australian.
skinthespin said:
I had my XFR for nearly 2 years, did 40,000 miles in it, awesome thing, same dilemma of what to get next, tried an F10 M5 and RS6, both feel uninspiring and feel too mundane inside, too much like there 2.0d cousins, AMG Merc way too chintzy and don't like being looked up and down in the dealers.....in the end plumbed for this.....
Bit more subtle but love it, XJ Supersport, same motor, you might find this hard to believe but in many ways it feels sportier than the XFR, exhaust marginally fruitier, can hear the supercharger whine at high revs, steering feels lighter and whole car feels a bit lighter on its feet, throttle calibration seems better at low speed too, as if they sorted out some of the XFR issues on this.
In SWB form like mine its around 50kg lighter too (depending on what you read!) thanks to an aluminium monocoque so a tough quicker in a straight line, best figures I have seen are car and driver in the USA, 0-60 in 4.1 and 0-100 in 9.1, about half a second quicker than the XFR by the same team.
I know its a bit 'old man' compared to the XFR but equipment levels and interior are a step up, panoramic roof etc etc, can you tell I like it??????
That looks amazing!Bit more subtle but love it, XJ Supersport, same motor, you might find this hard to believe but in many ways it feels sportier than the XFR, exhaust marginally fruitier, can hear the supercharger whine at high revs, steering feels lighter and whole car feels a bit lighter on its feet, throttle calibration seems better at low speed too, as if they sorted out some of the XFR issues on this.
In SWB form like mine its around 50kg lighter too (depending on what you read!) thanks to an aluminium monocoque so a tough quicker in a straight line, best figures I have seen are car and driver in the USA, 0-60 in 4.1 and 0-100 in 9.1, about half a second quicker than the XFR by the same team.
I know its a bit 'old man' compared to the XFR but equipment levels and interior are a step up, panoramic roof etc etc, can you tell I like it??????
This is why I got rid of my XFR, got stuck at the bottom of my hill in the snow and had to abandon the bloody thing. Besides that though loved it!
jamieduff1981 said:
The R-S needs caution in the wet. A lead footed overtake will see some spectacular yaw-angles. Ask me how I know...
On ice the summer tyres are pretty unsuitable. I got mine stuck at the bottom of a dip last time it snowed here and had to walk half way home for a phone signal to get my wife to bring Ford Ranger + tow rope. That said, I managed to decommission both the daily drivers I have sets of snow tyres for this winter so my wife used the R-S every day. She had to creep around as our roads are lowest priority for plowing and gritting but she kept the car in one piece.
I need to find out how small a wheel will fit over the R brakes and get a set of winters for that. Or better still, keep it in the garage and sort her X-Type for the coming winter ...
On ice the summer tyres are pretty unsuitable. I got mine stuck at the bottom of a dip last time it snowed here and had to walk half way home for a phone signal to get my wife to bring Ford Ranger + tow rope. That said, I managed to decommission both the daily drivers I have sets of snow tyres for this winter so my wife used the R-S every day. She had to creep around as our roads are lowest priority for plowing and gritting but she kept the car in one piece.
I need to find out how small a wheel will fit over the R brakes and get a set of winters for that. Or better still, keep it in the garage and sort her X-Type for the coming winter ...
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