Fatal Tesla crash, software based issue?
Discussion
GT119 said:
Plenty of people have been killed directly and indirectly by iPhones, just google it if you want to find out.
The same goes for vaping vs smoking for example.
People will die in autonomous cars, but maybe less people will die on average than are already dying in non-autonomous cars today.
Yes, but at least today I have more chance of avoiding a crash because I know how my car behaves and what to do about it. Your average moron just jams on the brakes and hopes for the best. So, as it stands, my ability to drive gives me an advantage over others.The same goes for vaping vs smoking for example.
People will die in autonomous cars, but maybe less people will die on average than are already dying in non-autonomous cars today.
If we're all in self driving boxes, my survival chances are the same as the unengaged chump on facebook next to me - after all, when there's no skill involved any more, it might be me that gets punted under a lorry - something that wouldn't happen with me at the wheel.
Okayyy....it's a well known conundrum that most people think they are above average drivers, which is of course not logical. I'm not saying you are one of them, my point was that it is probably going to be safer overall than what we have now.
I assume all you non-believers have thrown your iPhones away immediately you found out they can actually kill you.
I assume all you non-believers have thrown your iPhones away immediately you found out they can actually kill you.
AH33 said:
Yes, but at least today I have more chance of avoiding a crash because I know how my car behaves and what to do about it. Your average moron just jams on the brakes and hopes for the best. So, as it stands, my ability to drive gives me an advantage over others.
Sure, but your average moron is just the sort of driver who will benefit the most from advanced driver aids.I've got a Model 3 reserved. It will come with autopilot hardware but I doubt I'll ever use it, especially if it's going to cost me more to enable it in the software. I'm quite happy to pay attention to the road and control my own car, but I'd feel happier and safer if those average morons around me are getting some help from their car.
AH33 said:
Yes, but at least today I have more chance of avoiding a crash because I know how my car behaves and what to do about it. Your average moron just jams on the brakes and hopes for the best. So, as it stands, my ability to drive gives me an advantage over others.
If we're all in self driving boxes, my survival chances are the same as the unengaged chump on facebook next to me - after all, when there's no skill involved any more, it might be me that gets punted under a lorry - something that wouldn't happen with me at the wheel.
When everyone sits in fully automated cars your chances of survival will be exactly the same as everyone else, but, and this is the important bit, you will be a lot safer than you are now, regardless of how good a driver you think you are.If we're all in self driving boxes, my survival chances are the same as the unengaged chump on facebook next to me - after all, when there's no skill involved any more, it might be me that gets punted under a lorry - something that wouldn't happen with me at the wheel.
In the same way that a computer can beat the worlds best chess player in a few years time automated cars will be safer than the safest human driver.
GT119 said:
Okayyy....it's a well known conundrum that most people think they are above average drivers, which is of course not logical. I'm not saying you are one of them, my point was that it is probably going to be safer overall than what we have now.
So true. When I was younger I considered myself to be way above average as a driver. Now I consider myself to be average. I'm actually a better driver now than I have ever been. The difference is I've got enough experience to know that self belief + luck <> good.
Devil2575 said:
When everyone sits in fully automated cars your chances of survival will be exactly the same as everyone else, but, and this is the important bit, you will be a lot safer than you are now, regardless of how good a driver you think you are.
In the same way that a computer can beat the worlds best chess player in a few years time automated cars will be safer than the safest human driver.
Is this the same thinking that said we'd all be in flying cars powered by cold fusion by now?In the same way that a computer can beat the worlds best chess player in a few years time automated cars will be safer than the safest human driver.
There seems to be a lot of Tesla / Apple fanboys in here. Technology is great and all that but "Beta testing" (their words not mine) with 2 tonnes of metal at freeway speeds on open public roads doesn't strike me as the 'safe' or the ethically correct thing to do. The learning for true autonomous driving could all be done by virtual comparisons of the data vs the human inputs without ever having it active on a public road. The software to differentiate between an overhead gantry and a truck isn't difficult in the grand scheme of image processing even in poor light conditions, especially since the thing should be capable of making a very good judgement of spacial locations and speeds of everything around it - gantries don't tend to move.
You could liken this system to (arguably) the best driver with a very dodgy pair of cheap glasses on.
renrut said:
Is this the same thinking that said we'd all be in flying cars powered by cold fusion by now?
No, completely difference situation.renrut said:
There seems to be a lot of Tesla / Apple fanboys in here. Technology is great and all that but "Beta testing" (their words not mine) with 2 tonnes of metal at freeway speeds on open public roads doesn't strike me as the 'safe' or the ethically correct thing to do. The learning for true autonomous driving could all be done by virtual comparisons of the data vs the human inputs without ever having it active on a public road. The software to differentiate between an overhead gantry and a truck isn't difficult in the grand scheme of image processing even in poor light conditions, especially since the thing should be capable of making a very good judgement of spacial locations and speeds of everything around it - gantries don't tend to move.
You could liken this system to (arguably) the best driver with a very dodgy pair of cheap glasses on.
Not a Tesla or an Apple fanboy, just a person who recognises that computers can do a lot of things far better than people can. When people were talking about cold fusion and flying cars they were taking something straight from the pages of a Scifi novel, however the technology for autonomous cars isn't that far away now.You could liken this system to (arguably) the best driver with a very dodgy pair of cheap glasses on.
Devil2575 said:
Not a Tesla or an Apple fanboy, just a person who recognises that computers can do a lot of things far better than people can. When people were talking about cold fusion and flying cars they were taking something straight from the pages of a Scifi novel, however the technology for autonomous cars isn't that far away now.
I've been a big fan of technology and worked and played with it all my life - the older I become though, the more cynical I become about technology, especially affordable consumer grade kit - as much of it promises the world and fails to deliver as it is more about marketing and selling us stuff, rather than making the world a better place. There is some great stuff, like digital cameras, but 3D TVs anyone? DAB?The EU have been wasting loads of our money planning for how to tax robots so the governments can all pay the social of the humans that the robots and autonomous cars, make jobless.
If technology is going to save us all from ourselves, who is going to look after us all when we can't afford to eat?
yonex said:
Devil2575 said:
...the technology for autonomous cars isn't that far away now.
But the roads are.Emeye said:
I've been a big fan of technology and worked and played with it all my life - the older I become though, the more cynical I become about technology, especially affordable consumer grade kit - as much of it promises the world and fails to deliver as it is more about marketing and selling us stuff, rather than making the world a better place. There is some great stuff, like digital cameras, but 3D TVs anyone? DAB?
The EU have been wasting loads of our money planning for how to tax robots so the governments can all pay the social of the humans that the robots and autonomous cars, make jobless.
If technology is going to save us all from ourselves, who is going to look after us all when we can't afford to eat?
Not all technology works out but plenty does. There is a clear benefit to autonomous cars although I know why many people hate the idea.The EU have been wasting loads of our money planning for how to tax robots so the governments can all pay the social of the humans that the robots and autonomous cars, make jobless.
If technology is going to save us all from ourselves, who is going to look after us all when we can't afford to eat?
AH33 said:
GT119 said:
Plenty of people have been killed directly and indirectly by iPhones, just google it if you want to find out.
The same goes for vaping vs smoking for example.
People will die in autonomous cars, but maybe less people will die on average than are already dying in non-autonomous cars today.
Yes, but at least today I have more chance of avoiding a crash because I know how my car behaves and what to do about it. Your average moron just jams on the brakes and hopes for the best. So, as it stands, my ability to drive gives me an advantage over others.The same goes for vaping vs smoking for example.
People will die in autonomous cars, but maybe less people will die on average than are already dying in non-autonomous cars today.
If we're all in self driving boxes, my survival chances are the same as the unengaged chump on facebook next to me - after all, when there's no skill involved any more, it might be me that gets punted under a lorry - something that wouldn't happen with me at the wheel.
renrut said:
The software to differentiate between an overhead gantry and a truck isn't difficult in the grand scheme of image processing.
Spoken like a true "armchair" expert..... Have you written any image processing software, if you had, you wouldn't be saying things like that^^^^ ;-)
Mr Snrub said:
iPhones don't tend to kill people when the software goes wrong though
This right here shows why some people will never accept new ideas, your knee jerk reaction was to scoff at the possibility of people being killed by smartphones.I would also suggest that statement would have covered people being killed by the misuse of smartphones, just like the alleged misuse of the Tesla autopilot. There is plenty of evidence to show that many people are killed driving or walking using a smart phone every year but logically the positives of smartphones to society outweigh those deaths.
I also think that the Tesla Autopilot feature is less safe than the average driver right now but now is as bad as it gets and the likely total of lives saved by future generations of autonomous vehicles make it clearly for the greater good to society.
Mr Snrub said:
iPhones don't tend to kill people when the software goes wrong though
I suppose it depends how you look at it.Foxconn, the company that manufactures and assembles iPhones for Apple in China had to put up nets around their assembly buildings because they couldn't find any other way to stop their workers from jumping out of the window in an attempt to kill themselves.
Devil2575 said:
It's not the roads that are the problem it's drivers. If they got rid of all cars that needed a driver and replaced them with autonomous ones I suspect it would work very well. The problem is that in the real world drivers do stupid and unpredictable things.
Yes. Right after flying cars, Boris Johnson as PM etc...I can't think is a worse idea.
For those that hate driving I suggest trains, buses and taxi's. That'll free up the roads for me
Devil2575 said:
Not a Tesla or an Apple fanboy, just a person who recognises that computers can do a lot of things far better than people can.
Computers can only do as well as the people who programmed them, who in turn are only as good as the requirements placed on them by whomever did the systems design and analysis, which in turn is only as good at dealing with hazards as the functional safety analysis done on the system (where system includes the user, training, handbooks, through life maintenance etc. etc.). Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff