Young people and sensible boring saloons

Young people and sensible boring saloons

Author
Discussion

lestiq

705 posts

168 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
I bought a hot hatch after giving up on buying a house. I've worked my ass off for quite a few years now and it was all just disappearing in rent and bills, figured I may as well have something that I actually own, even if it is a liability. Plus its a car I never thought I would be in a position to own, let alone even sit in! I did the shed thing, did the big barge. One day we may own a house, they just don't offer value for money in my eyes. It is a generational thing, my generation will only be able to afford to rent or buy overpriced shoeboxes with no parking or gardens. Doesn't exactly inspire.

CraigyMc

16,300 posts

235 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
CX53 said:
C70R said:
If you earn 60kpa and can't afford to rent a place of your own, your personal finances have gone very badly wrong.
Working away perhaps?

Quite a few colleagues of mine on 60k or there abouts and lodge during the week. One of them lodges and goes back to mum and dads at the weekends while saving for a house. Some people have different priorities I guess!
Bingo. Also helped me save quite a bit for a deposit on a house in the South East.

C70R: I am a bit confused, am I supposed to be saving for a deposit on a house, or privately renting?
I genuinely don't know which would meet with your approval.

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
There has been a huge soar in us becoming a materialistic society. I'm really glad i'm not a kid today, because there is the illusion that everyone has money. Everywhere you look, success is defined by money and materialistic things.

Hot hatches are no longer popular because the facilitation of consumerism has been supported by easy access to finance. Why drive a crappy Ford when you can be like <insert a celebrity> who drives around in their shiny white BMW or Mercedes?

Of course, we know a white 118d with cloth interior is some way from an M6 Cabrio, but it's the badge and colour that counts to the vast majority.


xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
CraigyMc said:
I genuinely don't know which would meet with your approval.
Nothing will.

Just give up.

neil1jnr

1,460 posts

154 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
Sparkzz said:
neil1jnr said:
You obviously don't enjoy driving that much then, do you like going for a B road blast for example? Have you driven the likes of a Megane 265, Fiesta ST or M135i for example? I can't understand why you would want a tuned diesel or a big, potentially ruinous, barge, unless you are maybe doing over 100 miles per day commute or have 3 kids.

You think it is desirable for a lass to have a boyfriend with a nice motor? What does that even mean?

So you think your 330d (tuned) and S class are for impressing people and hot hatches are a waste of time? I thought this was PistonHeads?

By the way, what did you do to your 330d to achieve 350bhp?
I've driven a 135i yes, they're nice cars, a little small for me really I'd probably buy a 335i. Even the 135i is probably a german barge to some people.
When I bought the 330d my commute was substantial, it would have made no sense to have a petrol car. Moreover, the 330d is quicker than the petrol, especially with a tune.

The 330d had a full exhaust system, induction kit, hybrid turbo and different injectors. Probably went a bit over board with it really, should have bought a 335 but hey ho.

I think that many young lasses do want a boyfriend with a nice car and I suggest this as a reason for why people my age and younger buy them. It's not my personal reason however, as I don't think my S Class is regarded as 'cool' by many people. I'd also much prefer it this way.

Have you ever driven an S Class, they're rather good fun to drive in a comical sort of way.


In terms of B road blasts, yeah, done it loads living out in the countryside, used to do it every night until I was about 20, car full of mates etc. I've never really understood how you can get a kick out of driving unless your on the limit, and if you've never been in a field, you've never been on the limit either. I couldn't even drive my 330d to it's limit on the road to be honest with you. The S class is air driven suspension so it corners as well as something much smaller anyway, I'd much rather run around in something that looks nice and what I enjoy than a hot hatch (which usually aren't that quick)

I don't understand how you can think the car is ruinous either, expensive to run maybe, but much cheaper than buying a new civic and spending a fortune on fuel and depreciation. I also bought the car, with enough money to run it - however inconceivable this is to you.

The S Class is the first car I've owned that I really enjoy, the others were just for pratting around in to be honest. Toys.
Different strokes and all that, I get it, the big barge, the comfort, effortless power, but it's not my cup of tea at the moment... maybe in 10 years

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
CraigyMc said:
I genuinely don't know which would meet with your approval.
Nothing will.

Just give up.
laughlaughlaugh
If you're both struggling, here's a quick synopsis...

  • XJ, with lots of "it's not fair", moaned about how his position was impossible, and how it "wasn't straightforward" for his "generation" to get into the housing ladder.
  • I, in very clear terms, demonstrated how it was absolutely possible for someone in his financial position to get on the ladder. Especially someone who had p*ssed his money away tarting up a VW.
  • XJ, with lots of "yeah but no, but yeah, but no" tried to pick apart this logic, demonstrating no grasp of the concept of 'compromise' and thus confirming everything that was suspected of his "generation".
Hope that was clear enough for you. Anywho, I wish you both a bon week-end - I'll be back to answer more of life's big questions next week. beer

Edited by C70R on Friday 21st October 16:51

neil1jnr

1,460 posts

154 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
hondansx said:
There has been a huge soar in us becoming a materialistic society. I'm really glad i'm not a kid today, because there is the illusion that everyone has money. Everywhere you look, success is defined by money and materialistic things.

Hot hatches are no longer popular because the facilitation of consumerism has been supported by easy access to finance. Why drive a crappy Ford when you can be like <insert a celebrity> who drives around in their shiny white BMW or Mercedes?

Of course, we know a white 118d with cloth interior is some way from an M6 Cabrio, but it's the badge and colour that counts to the vast majority.
Me too, I feel I am at the age (27), where I was one of the last to be kid before internet (we didn't have internet until 2004), we at VHS and not everybody had everything. Even in my teens and when I saved up and bought my first car, everyone else was also content with what they had. Yes there were few rich kids but even back then the perception of wealth or 'premium' or 'luxury' was not what everyone aspired to, whereas as now, when I talk to my younger cousins or see their Facebook/Instagram posts, goals in life are going to Ibiza every year, having a new or newest reg possible Audi/BMW/Merc, branded clothing, pictures of them and their friend at a rubbish night club in the 'VIP' area with everyone got their selfie taken with a novelty over-expensive bottle of Grey Goose vodka!

Anyway, my point being that hondansx you have nailed it, there is this illusion that everyone has money and I believe it's partly due to cheap credit (which I do make the most of). The people my age that have the same attitude to the late teens/early twenties lot I was talking about already want; a new build house with government equity scheme as their first home and a new German saloon on the drive. I know a couple that make roughly a third more than me with their combined income yet live in a new build (thanks to the government scheme) that costs roughly twice as much as the value of my house and each have a newish Audi that just fits into their tiny drive! Then other mates and couples talk about how they are doing so well and ask me wouldn't I like a better house! It's mental. Anyway that's enough venting for this afternoon.

NickCQ

5,392 posts

95 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
C70R said:
I, in very clear terms, demonstrated how it was absolutely possible for someone in his financial position to get on the ladder
Didn't you suggest he could get a £140k mortgage with only a £10k deposit? I think 93% LTV is pushing it a bit for FTB although happy to be proved wrong if I've misunderstood...

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
C70R said:
xjay1337 said:
CraigyMc said:
I genuinely don't know which would meet with your approval.
Nothing will.

Just give up.
laughlaughlaugh
If you're both struggling, here's a quick synopsis...

  • XJ, with lots of "it's not fair", moaned about how his position was impossible, and how it "wasn't straightforward" for his "generation" to get into the housing ladder.
  • I, in very clear terms, demonstrated how it was absolutely possible for someone in his financial position to get on the ladder. Especially someone who had p*ssed his money away tarting up a VW.
  • XJ, with lots of "yeah but no, but yeah, but no" tried to pick apart this logic, demonstrating no grasp of the concept of 'compromise' and thus confirming everything that was suspected of his "generation".
Hope that was clear enough for you. Anywho, I wish you both a bon week-end - I'll be back to answer more of life's big questions next week. beer

Edited by C70R on Friday 21st October 16:51
You really are not reading a lot about what I was saying.
I was not saying that for my position it was impossible.
I said very clearly, that I personally had a choice (and I made it)
I explained my situation for a mortgage when I was looking several years ago. You blamed my credit rating or "economic factors".
You continually berate my financial decisions, even though it has nothing to do with you. Which I find annoying.
I did not pick apart anything.

You seem to think that the average under 25 year old earns in the mid £20k region (I have proved this to be wrong).
You also by proxy claimed average salary was in the £35k region but you since conceeded that point.

I have explained to you very clearly how it is basically impossible for someone who earns average salary for my sort of age (<25) to save up enough to buy a house when they already live independently. I also explained my local area (it's pretty clear where C70R lives) that £140k will not buy you anything.
And a suitable property in a good area is £220k+

I said that while it may be possible it would assume that you not go out (ever), never drive anywhere outside of your work commute, you'd not own a car on finance (most people) and that car would never go wrong and also you'd never get hit with any other unexpected bills.




Edited by xjay1337 on Friday 21st October 18:22

Slow

6,973 posts

136 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
neil1jnr said:
Fair point, I am 5'10", regularly have no more than one passenger in my car and I like FWD. I still can't see how you wouldn't enjoy a good FWD hatch though. I mean I love hot hatches but I like driving anything in general a lot. I've gave my mates 4.4 tdV8 a go round our local B road routes and all I can say is that young lads round your way must not know how to drive! wink
I've had a fwd hatch in the form of a Datsun Cherry Turbo, running roughly 170 bhp with no power steering, no abs, no anything. Was fun but couldn't do with the small car size.

The young lads may not be that good at driving but when the road is as much potholes as road the Range Rover sure flys. It was bought originally to tow a trailer which I did a lot of. Never intended to be fun haha.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
quotequote all
hondansx said:
There has been a huge soar in us becoming a materialistic society.
Has much changed, though?

Growing up in the 70's and 80's, as a kid, it was all about which BMX you had, the range on your walkie-talkie, whether or not you had a SodaStream, more than one TV, a phone in the bedroom, the area you lived in, the car your folks had, whether your Fila top and Farah trousers were real or fake, if you had an Atari.....(it's a long, long list).

As teenagers it became about cars, footwear, make of stereos, watches, aftershave....you name it.

Parents were often to be found hammering catalogs and renting big TV's to 'keep up with the Joneses'. The best cutlery and crockery was often only used when it was required to make an impression and a new G Plan cabinet, along with a decent oven etc, could make people visit just to take a look!

I think there was a period where people were simply embracing and enjoying new technology, but that quickly turned to the materialistic society you suggest; it's just got worse and worse as time has gone on.

Lucas Ayde

3,541 posts

167 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
quotequote all
C70R said:
Nothing "cavalier" about it at all. Hundreds of people are doing the same every day.

Not sure if you completely understand how interest rates work, but nothing the markets do are going to have a significant impact on a £570/mth payment (i.e. it's hardly going to double!). As for the "job security" thing, I don't see why that's more relevant here than in any other house-buying scenario.
I'm not too sure if you completely understand how mortgages are structured. Interest will add up to typically anywhere between 2x and 2.5x the capital that you borrow, over the period of repayment. That means that even a change in rates of a seemingly small amout (say 2% to 3%) will result in a significant rise in monthly payments.

eg. Borrowing 150k over 25 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/property/mortgagecalcul...

With 2% interest rates:
Monthly repayment - £640 (interest component £250)

With 3% interest rates:
Monthly £718 (interest component £375)

With 4% interest rates:
Monthly £800 (interest component - £500)

So rates going up from even a couple of percent (200bps) using this example results in a rise of £250 a month.

Interest rate rises not only mean more expensive monthly payments on existing mortgages but generally result in lower property prices as people look at the monthly repayments and decide not to take debt on, reducing demand and forcing prices lower.

Right now interest rates are at historic lows, prices are at historic highs following a huge bubble and the economy is looking extremely dodgy. Yet you think that taking on a secured loan for 5x your income is nothing to be bothered about.

Best of luck to anyone doing that.

Blakewater

4,303 posts

156 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
quotequote all
A large number of first time buyers regret their decisions to rush into getting onto the property ladder because they seriously underestimated the cost of it. It's not only the mortgage that has to be considered, it's the utility bills, council tax and the inevitable maintenance costs that even fairly new houses can throw at you. Someone I know has just taken the plunge on a house of only fifteen years old, decided to forgo the cost of a structural survey and has just been hit with a raining in and mold problem the vendor kept sneakily hidden at the back of a cupboard when she was looking around.

On the other hand, I can fully understand someone who needs reliable personal transport taking on the fixed costs of a PCP on a new car they can be fairly sure will start every morning, won't keep hitting them with huge bills, won't turn out to be two halves of different cars stuck together and won't break down on the motorway. Plus, showing you can be responsible with credit can help you when you come to take on a mortgage. Spending your money on a nice car is better than snorting it up your nose, shagging it away in a brothel or pissing it up a wall after drinking to much booze before falling in the canal and being found floating face down the next morning.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
You seem to think that the average under 25 year old earns in the mid £20k region (I have proved this to be wrong).
You also by proxy claimed average salary was in the £35k region but you since conceeded that point.
I never actually said any of this. Apologies if you misunderstood, but I thought I was being quite clear.

xjay1337 said:
I also explained my local area (it's pretty clear where C70R lives) that £140k will not buy you anything.
And a suitable property in a good area is £220k+
Your original point was that it's "not straightforward" for young people to get on the housing ladder.
Whereas the above (and most of your other posts) suggest that the barriers you're putting up for yourself are the major issue.
  • If you want to get on the housing ladder, you shouldn't be targeting to spend the national average house price. That's idiotic, and will hinder your progress.
  • I linked 4 suitable properties for a first-time buyer in your local area, that would have been affordable in your circumstances (£140k mortgate plus £10k deposit - £150k property). You said you wouldn't consider living in them in case someone scratched your car - your priorities/barriers are clear.
If you want to get on the housing ladder, it's absolutely "straightforward". You need to prioritise, and cut your cloth accordingly. HTH.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
NickCQ said:
C70R said:
I, in very clear terms, demonstrated how it was absolutely possible for someone in his financial position to get on the ladder
Didn't you suggest he could get a £140k mortgage with only a £10k deposit? I think 93% LTV is pushing it a bit for FTB although happy to be proved wrong if I've misunderstood...
It's absolutely fine. Barclays and a number of others are happy to offer loans on this LTV.
Lucas Ayde said:
Interest rate stuff.
You're absolutely right, and I had run the same numbers myself. My point was that XJ is currently paying £800/mth to lodge (with a ~£60k salary), so even an (unrealistic) worst-case scenario increase would have been manageable.

AndrewNR

264 posts

121 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Not sure what's more boring; talking about 320d M Sports or who can afford a house in X region.

Jesus. sleep

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
I'm sorry, where on earth did I say I pay £800 to lodge?

I pay £500 to Lodge.
Mine and Mrs new house is £775. That is our house we are renting.
By the time we've paid bills etc it's around £1150.

I did not discount the properties on "someone scratching my car".
I very clearly stated these were not nice areas, were close to a town centre and multiple assaults have been carried out recently in those areas.


I can only assume you live up North because the "national average house price" may well be £220k (I'm not sure if it is, haven't checked) but that is about the price of a reasonable home suitable for 1 or 2 people in my area. It's worse if you go further South East into Surrey you'd be lucky to buy anything for under £200k let alone a house or flat you'd want to live in.

I have said that I would rather lodge or rent in a nicer area than buy in what can only be described as the Berkshire's version of downtown Baghdad/

We've proven that the average income for 22-29 year olds is around £18k as previously shown
We can assume that for 21-25 year olds the average was less (I was not able to get that data).

I shall break down for you living costs. on an £18k Salary @ £1170 take home (after tax). Let's assume you BEST CASE are paying what I paid in a previous house share

£500 - Combined Rent / council tax / electric / broadband (this would be pretty impossible to find nowadays)
£150 - Bank loan to purchase car
£120 - Insurance
£25 - Car Tax
£30 - Cheapish phone rental

---

That leaves you £345 a month.

We have not covered fuel costs (let's say our imaginary worker works in Basingstoke and drives a smallish hatchback w120ch averages 40mpg).

That's just under 40 miles, let's just say it's 40 miles for sake of maths.
That's basically 1 gallon a day (around what, £6?) - £30 a week

So on top of the above we have

£120 - Monthly petrol spend.

So that's £225 left.

Let's say you shop at Aldi and spend £15 a week shopping (again that is very conservative, if at all possible)

£60- months food

That's £165 left.

So with your £165, what are you going to do?

Here we are assuming the imaginary person

1) Never drives ANYWHERE other than to work and then to Aldi on their way home
2) That their car never breaks, that they never need to replace tyres, brakes, or have it serviced or MOT'd
3) That they eat bottom-of-the-barrel food. The only way to really eat like that is to cook chips / potatoes and cheap meat. It's possible to shop smarter by going into Sainsburys 5 minutes before closing time but that really is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
4) They never do anything, ever, with friends. No bowling, no cinema, no shows that interest them, never go to the pub if that's what they like, don't have Sky, let alone Netflix, don't ever need to buy any clothes, or shoes, never buy birthday/christmas presents.

Now if you were lucky enough to live at home, that's fine, you have the £500 that you were spending on rent to put aside, but due to people like you, and societies pressures, most people don't live at home, or if they do, have to pay rent to their parents.

If you think it's possible to have £165 left over after your your outgoings and then be able to buy a house let alone save you are seriously in a world of your own.


That is the EXACT position thousands and thousands of young people are in.
Without signficant help from their family or buying into a property in a partnership with their boy or girlfriend they will be stuck for years to come.

Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 24th October 12:20

NickCQ

5,392 posts

95 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
C70R said:
It's absolutely fine. Barclays and a number of others are happy to offer loans on this LTV.
OK, maybe you can. It doesn't necessarily mean that you should...

Edited by NickCQ on Monday 24th October 12:46

rsbmw

3,464 posts

104 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
AndrewNR said:
Not sure what's more boring; talking about 320d M Sports or who can afford a house in X region.

Jesus. sleep
Must be interesting enough if it's pulled you out of that 1 post in 32 months lurk!

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
rofl

C70R insisting that a 30 year, 93% LTV mortgage for a sum of 5x an individual's annual salary is not only entirely feasible but also a great idea for a first time buyer with an average 25 year old's salary

rofl