Young people and sensible boring saloons
Discussion
I agree (to a point)
As a 25 year old males, i find myself between 2 different groups of friends. One set has between them an m135i, 208 Gti, A3 2.0t and an old a4 2.4. These guys work in either the car industry or manual labour. No badge snobbery here. On the other side another set of acquaintances all lease diesel jags, A classes, 1.4 1 series's. These guys all work in sales/office jobs (not trying to generalise too much. I'm in sales!).
Me? I own a Suzuki swift sport. Might be getting a new role that involves a fair bit motorway mileage (not the swift's best suit). Girlfriend says buy something more sensible with more room, a nice interior etc. She's probably hoping for a Golf kind of car. I want a 595 Comp (Hey, it sits lower in the rev range at 70 than the SSS does
). People in group A think the Abarth is a sound choice, people in group B do not understand why I want a girls car with a bodykit as opposed to a new diesel A3.
As a 25 year old males, i find myself between 2 different groups of friends. One set has between them an m135i, 208 Gti, A3 2.0t and an old a4 2.4. These guys work in either the car industry or manual labour. No badge snobbery here. On the other side another set of acquaintances all lease diesel jags, A classes, 1.4 1 series's. These guys all work in sales/office jobs (not trying to generalise too much. I'm in sales!).
Me? I own a Suzuki swift sport. Might be getting a new role that involves a fair bit motorway mileage (not the swift's best suit). Girlfriend says buy something more sensible with more room, a nice interior etc. She's probably hoping for a Golf kind of car. I want a 595 Comp (Hey, it sits lower in the rev range at 70 than the SSS does
). People in group A think the Abarth is a sound choice, people in group B do not understand why I want a girls car with a bodykit as opposed to a new diesel A3.NickCQ said:
neil1jnr said:
Your an idiot, when it comes to the vehicle you drive it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it and I struggle to see how in anyway that means you are selfish.
OK, strong reaction to my comment. My point was that if I was someone's boss and I suggested that they should present themselves professionally, I'd think they were a tool if they said to me 'I don't give a crap what you think, I'm an individual, I can drive what I like coz I've got my human rights'...Just thought I'd let you know.
Daston said:
A teenager just drove past at lunch time in a new Focus RS ok not the last word in outlandish styling but certainly a silly quick hothatch that isn't a german brand. Fair play to the guy he looked about 12.
I just can't do sensible even at 32 and with a child on the way my idea of a sensible family car is coming down to a Civic Type R or a focus RS if I can stretch to it.
I don't think I could have anything "normal"
I used to turn up to many meetings in the TVR, Supras and parked the RX in the office carpark (amidst all the euro boxes) and only had nice things said about them.
Good thinking - you could get one of the sensible saloon Civic Type Rs - bit quicker than the UK hatches - I know someone with one and a car know it all who works by me thought it was a Honda Insight with a spoiler!I just can't do sensible even at 32 and with a child on the way my idea of a sensible family car is coming down to a Civic Type R or a focus RS if I can stretch to it.
I don't think I could have anything "normal"
I used to turn up to many meetings in the TVR, Supras and parked the RX in the office carpark (amidst all the euro boxes) and only had nice things said about them.
SuperAd said:
Unfortunately, most people these days need a car as a mode of transport, not just a plaything/hobby. Not very clever driving round in a 15 year old 750i on a 80 mile daily commute. The 'reps' as people driving German saloons are ridiculously referred to in these forums are petrolheads who need to use the car for something other than a toy, and don't want to spend all weekend tinkering with some £1000 quid heap just keep it on the road, only to spend £150 a week on petrol.
First posts on PH, Your doing it wrong! 
Lester H said:
Blanchimont said:
Badge, that's it.
Being youngish myself (22) I broke the mould and went for a RS Megane. I know plenty of people who have Diesel A1's, Diesel C class Mercs and the odd BMW. Someone I know just bought an XFR though, so that makes it better
oh, yes! Badges have much to answer for when you are a young aspiring professional. In which case, you either play the badge game, or break out, as in the Megane example here. What about having the courage to go down the " I don't give a damn route" and running a so - called shed? Maybe that's a bridge too far but it could be liberating in a way!Being youngish myself (22) I broke the mould and went for a RS Megane. I know plenty of people who have Diesel A1's, Diesel C class Mercs and the odd BMW. Someone I know just bought an XFR though, so that makes it better
It's nice driving a new car again that is fun to drive though, much prefer it over the shed but there is aspects of having a shed I miss already.
NickCQ said:
neil1jnr said:
Your an idiot, when it comes to the vehicle you drive it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it and I struggle to see how in anyway that means you are selfish.
OK, strong reaction to my comment. My point was that if I was someone's boss and I suggested that they should present themselves professionally, I'd think they were a tool if they said to me 'I don't give a crap what you think, I'm an individual, I can drive what I like coz I've got my human rights'...Anyway, I understand what you are getting at now and that wasn't what I was getting at, yes, I agree that if for your job your company wishes you to drive a specific car or not to drive specific types of car based on how they want you to present yourself as an employee of their company then yes I agree that is absolutely acceptable.
My comment was referring to in general or what your peers in the office may think about you because of what you drive.
Rob I read your reply and I think I get what you mean... but I think I am confused further too?
neil1jnr said:
Sorry nick, I read that as if you were calling me a selfish tool for my comment, hence calling you an idiot.
Anyway, I understand what you are getting at now and that wasn't what I was getting at, yes, I agree that if for your job your company wishes you to drive a specific car or not to drive specific types of car based on how they want you to present yourself as an employee of their company then yes I agree that is absolutely acceptable.
My comment was referring to in general or what your peers in the office may think about you because of what you drive.
Rob I read your reply and I think I get what you mean... but I think I am confused further too?
No worries. If I turned up in the office sporting a Mohawk I think I'd get the same reaction as turning up in some barried Corsa.Anyway, I understand what you are getting at now and that wasn't what I was getting at, yes, I agree that if for your job your company wishes you to drive a specific car or not to drive specific types of car based on how they want you to present yourself as an employee of their company then yes I agree that is absolutely acceptable.
My comment was referring to in general or what your peers in the office may think about you because of what you drive.
Rob I read your reply and I think I get what you mean... but I think I am confused further too?
Years ago, I was leaving a meeting with a rep from a financial company who wanted me to invest my pension with him. We were walking across the health centre car park to my Clio Williams when he said "Is that yours", I rather smugly assured him that it was , he then said "I'd have thought you could have afforded something better than a N- reg Clio". I was too astounded to say much as he got into his grey Audi A4 and drove off, giving me a wave. My pension money went elsewhere
Fundamentally I own the cars I want to enjoy to drive and the entire experience. I work hard, have a few businesses I run, 2 young kids. I currently own an M6 Gran Coupe for my daily and a Lotus Evora for the weekend. Some people will say oh look at that snob, loaded etc, others will admire the cars if they have an interest in cars. The world is mad, people think stupid and odd things, plenty of people are also normal. If they want to buy an A3 saloon so be it....all I will say is this, as they years go on, all the boring cars we see more and more on the roads these days makes our special ones even more special. Rarer, a snapshot in time of what great cars / motoring whatever is, being lost with emissions regulations and all the rest.
Exactly why I still also have my 10 year old Deep Blue Pearl V6 Golf R32. Still turning heads in 2016.
Exactly why I still also have my 10 year old Deep Blue Pearl V6 Golf R32. Still turning heads in 2016.
SuperAd said:
Not very clever driving round in a 15 year old 750i on a 80 mile daily commute.
I dunno. My E500 is getting on for 12 years old and is on 140k.I regularly do a 60 mile commute, took it Hampshire lest weekend and its off to Scotland next week.
I could replace it tomorrow with something newer and "better" but it just keeps on working and working.
Sum total of spend this year is one service, one gearbox flush, one wheel centre cap, two tyres and a three wipers blades.
supercommuter said:
What happened to wanting to get out of your mums house and get your own house!
The price of the house you could move into, in an area where you can actually work.The requirement for a decent deposit versus the price of the house above.
The salary of people joining the housing market as a fraction of the debt you'd have to take on the house above.
The lack of mortgage availability for young people, based on the three items above.
The lack of council provided housing.
The fact that young people who do move out are pushed into private renting because of all of the above.
I could go on. Suffice to say, it was a lot easier for previous generations than it is for this one.
CraigyMc said:
supercommuter said:
What happened to wanting to get out of your mums house and get your own house!
The price of the house you could move into, in an area where you can actually work.The requirement for a decent deposit versus the price of the house above.
The salary of people joining the housing market as a fraction of the debt you'd have to take on the house above.
The lack of mortgage availability for young people, based on the three items above.
The lack of council provided housing.
The fact that young people who do move out are pushed into private renting because of all of the above.
I could go on. Suffice to say, it was a lot easier for previous generations than it is for this one.
But, yeah, the economy is the definitely the problem.
I could go and get a 5% deposit mortgage tomorrow with Barclays, as a first-time buyer for any house value up to half a million quid. With a bit of coaxing, they will lend at 5x too, and the initial interest rate is VERY reasonable.
Price of an average home is ~£220k, and average salary is £23-26k (depending on who you believe).
This would mean that a working couple could comfortably afford to mortgage a starter home (say ~£170k), and would only need to save ~£9k between them.
Where's the economic hardship in that?
My folks got married in the 70s, and moved straight into my grandparents' 3-bed house for 2 years. In that time they ran a knackered Fiat 500, and both commuted ~30 miles each way (my Dad would get up extra early to drop my mother off, in the wrong direction).
When was the last time you heard of someone in their 20s doing that?
Edited by C70R on Thursday 20th October 14:02
AC43 said:
I dunno. My E500 is getting on for 12 years old and is on 140k.
I regularly do a 60 mile commute, took it Hampshire lest weekend and its off to Scotland next week.
I could replace it tomorrow with something newer and "better" but it just keeps on working and working.
Sum total of spend this year is one service, one gearbox flush, one wheel centre cap, two tyres and a three wipers blades.
I've always had a lot of respect for the 'regular' V8 saloons, i.e. not the 55 and 63 AMG versions. Its got all that V8 character and luxury without it being overly sporty, angry, firm or loud.I regularly do a 60 mile commute, took it Hampshire lest weekend and its off to Scotland next week.
I could replace it tomorrow with something newer and "better" but it just keeps on working and working.
Sum total of spend this year is one service, one gearbox flush, one wheel centre cap, two tyres and a three wipers blades.
supercommuter said:
I have to agree with C70R. I am not from that 'older generation'. I am 26 and own my own home in a nice area - I fail to see where these economic problems are? Yes, houses are more expensive now but money is cheap to borrow. Why borrow £35k for a diesel saloon?
Halifax will even now give you a 4.3% loan for a deposit on a mortgage with them - I mean, what more could you ask for?
How many average houses these days are 3.5x the average salary or 2.5x the average combined income of a couple? Before the crazy credit/ housing bubble which started in the late 90's, that used to be enough to get you a fairly decent (non-starter) 3-bed family home.Halifax will even now give you a 4.3% loan for a deposit on a mortgage with them - I mean, what more could you ask for?
Never mind that even if lenders will give much higher multiples, it's manifestly not a good idea to borrow such a high amount relative to your income especially once interest rates go up, making house prices go down and leaving borrowers with high amounts of principal to repay, absolutely screwed.
Seriously, stupidly cheap and lax credit to buy houses is NOT a good thing. It just results in prices rising and rising until we get to the point where large numbers of borrowers take on so much debt that they end up defaulting on paying back the loans - which is exactly what triggered the financial crisis of 2007/8.
NickCQ said:
20 years of runaway house price inflation happened!
I think people are slowly coming around to understanding the damage done by the absolutely mental house price bubble and associated property mania that has gripped Britain for a couple of decades now, slowly strangling the real economy and disenfranchising the younger generations and destroying their aspirations.Yes, there are now a lot of young stay-at-homes who live lifestyles based upon leasing cars and consumerism funded by credit. That's possibly because they have shag-all chance of actually getting onto the housing ladder in a meaningful way due to the ludicrous price of property (including rental) and the increasing proliferation of low-paid and/or highly insecure jobs.
BUT - interest rates are currently pegged super low and banks and financial institutions are practically queuing up to give out no-questions-asked credit because the central bank is essentially funding them, meaning they screw over financially-prudent depositors by offering SFA by way of interest on their savings.
It's an absolutely crazy, unsustainable state of affairs and the wheels will either come off economically very soon or the disenfranchised demographic will start to be in the majority which means politicians will change their tune.
C70R said:
CraigyMc said:
supercommuter said:
What happened to wanting to get out of your mums house and get your own house!
The price of the house you could move into, in an area where you can actually work.The requirement for a decent deposit versus the price of the house above.
The salary of people joining the housing market as a fraction of the debt you'd have to take on the house above.
The lack of mortgage availability for young people, based on the three items above.
The lack of council provided housing.
The fact that young people who do move out are pushed into private renting because of all of the above.
I could go on. Suffice to say, it was a lot easier for previous generations than it is for this one.
But, yeah, the economy is the definitely the problem.
I could go and get a 5% deposit mortgage tomorrow with Barclays, as a first-time buyer for any house value up to half a million quid. With a bit of coaxing, they will lend at 5x too, and the initial interest rate is VERY reasonable.
Price of an average home is ~£220k, and average salary is £23-26k (depending on who you believe).
This would mean that a working couple could comfortably afford to mortgage a starter home (say ~£170k), and would only need to save ~£9k between them.
Where's the economic hardship in that?
My folks got married in the 70s, and moved straight into my grandparents' 3-bed house for 2 years. In that time they ran a knackered Fiat 500, and both commuted ~30 miles each way (my Dad would get up extra early to drop my mother off, in the wrong direction).
When was the last time you heard of someone in their 20s doing that?
Edited by C70R on Thursday 20th October 14:02
I had £10,000 deposit.
At the time I earned £28k a year.
The most I could get a mortgage for was for approx £125,000.
I was forced to move out at 18, so I've been paying between £400 and £550 to rent basically a room in various houseshares over the years. Some of my friends are lucky and live at home with Mummy and Daddy but lots of my friends are also living in rented accommodation, mainly due to pressures from parents and hushed wispers - "move out move out"
Currently I lodge with a very nice family and have done for nearly 2 years.
Next week I get the keys to a rented house with my Mrs , this is £800pcm.
It's not quite as simple and clear cut as you make out.
I could, if I didn't spend all the money I have done on my car over the last 3 or 4 years, probably be in a house.
But I would have very little money for anything else, I would be driving a £500 15 year old barge and struggling to get by on the day to day.
I would love a house but I don't think it's feasible without serious help from mine / my Mrs parents. The problem isn't the monthly outgoings on a mortgage it's the deposit needed to get a mortgage for £500-£700 a month. And that would be a LOT more than 5% (try 30-40%).
Around where I live (Newbury) the average house price is about £220k and even for that you are scraping the bottom of the acceptable barrel.
Even assuming a £40k deposit (that's a 82% LTV) .
You're looking at 2 years @ £753 (1.89%) and then remainder at 3.74% variable @ £911 a month plus a grand setup fee that is a LOT of money.
Let's assume you take home £2k a month (easy sums)
You currently rent £750 (typical price for newbury for an average flat/house)
Your council tax, leccy, internet, utilities etc come in at £180
Your food comes to £120 a month (excluding work lunches)
You have a car (perfectly reasonable) @ £200 a month
Your car tax is £20 a month (again pretty average)
car insurance is another £100 a month (again pretty average)
You have a phone bill @ £30 a month
You have Netflix at £8 a month
Your commute to work costs you £50 a week in fuel.
You treat yourself and your Mrs to dinner out once a fortnight at £50
Movie night at Cinema £25
You maybe buy a couple of albums each month - £15
So straight away your £2k is down to a shade over £450. That's without putting any money in savings, or having to repair your car when/if it breaks, or any other pleasure activities.
Let's assume you are really boring and never do anything else other than the above (no days out, no holidays, weekends away etc). Assume you never need to buy tyres or service your car, nothing ever breaks.
To build up £20k deposit (assuming you and your Mrs both earn the same) so that's your half
That's 44 months... 3 1/2 years.
Double that if you're on your own.
It really isn't that easy.
That's without any other costs EG pleasure travel ,
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