Young people and sensible boring saloons

[xjay1337]

HustleRussell said:

C70R insisting that a 30 year, 93% LTV mortgage for a sum of 5x an individual's annual salary is not only entirely feasible but also a great idea for a first time buyer with an average 25 year old's salary

They have to make the "right sacrifices"


(Ps on an unrelated point, C70R will keep dragging this back to me, about how I don't sacrifice, etc. I know full well I can afford a house if I wanted to. I personally spent money on my car and experiences, being on a good salary for my age group. I am not complaining about not buying a house PERSONALLY.

I am speaking purely from the viewpoint of a young person who is on the average salary for our age, rather than myself, who wants to get onto the housing ladder)

[Captainawesome]

Lucas Ayde said:

NickCQ said:

20 years of runaway house price inflation happened!

I think people are slowly coming around to understanding the damage done by the absolutely mental house price bubble and associated property mania that has gripped Britain for a couple of decades now, slowly strangling the real economy and disenfranchising the younger generations and destroying their aspirations.

Yes, there are now a lot of young stay-at-homes who live lifestyles based upon leasing cars and consumerism funded by credit. That's possibly because they have shag-all chance of actually getting onto the housing ladder in a meaningful way due to the ludicrous price of property (including rental) and the increasing proliferation of low-paid and/or highly insecure jobs.

BUT - interest rates are currently pegged super low and banks and financial institutions are practically queuing up to give out no-questions-asked credit because the central bank is essentially funding them, meaning they screw over financially-prudent depositors by offering SFA by way of interest on their savings.


It's an absolutely crazy, unsustainable state of affairs and the wheels will either come off economically very soon or the disenfranchised demographic will start to be in the majority which means politicians will change their tune.

You guys understand what debt is, what it creates and who for right?

All you will see in the future is people pushed further into debt for everything.

Do some research on debt creating money.

[C70R]

HustleRussell said:

C70R insisting that a 30 year, 93% LTV mortgage for a sum of 5x an individual's annual salary is not only entirely feasible but also a great idea for a first time buyer with an average 25 year old's salary

I'm sorry that you only read the last two pages. The recommendation was made to demonstrate how it was perfectly feasible for someone in his situation to get onto the property ladder. If that was someone's priority, I'd recommend exactly the same, time and again. 93% LTV on a £150k property is absolutely nothing - no need to get your pants in a twist.

ET: XJ, I got halfway through that waffle before I realised that you had basically made up a scenario (£18k income - only £3k over minimum wage!) that bore no relationship to your own. Talk about goalpost shifting. You really should just concede defeat on this one.

Edited by C70R on Monday 24th October 13:45

[thebigmacmoomin]

I bought a 2006 Mondeo ST TDCi when I was 22 (8 years ago).

[Devil2575]

My first decent car was a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 GLSi.

I bought it because I wanted a car with a bit of poke but wasn't prepared to pay the insurance premium for a hot hatch.

[xjay1337]

C70R said:

ET: XJ, I got halfway through that waffle before I realised that you had basically made up a scenario (£18k income - only £3k over minimum wage!) that bore no relationship to your own. Talk about goalpost shifting. You really should just concede defeat on this one.

Edited by C70R on Monday 24th October 13:45

I'm sorry, you must be seriously obtuse.

I explained that, for young people it was very difficult.

I gave you an example of MY PERSONAL situation several years ago where I said I was earning in the high 20's and was only able to get a Mortgage for £125,000 or there abouts.
We rounded this up to £140k total price (£130k Mortgage + £10k deposit) it seems.
You seem to base your entire argument on me spending money on my car when I am not saying that I couldn't personally get a Mortgage but that a lot of people my age would not be able to for reasons I've explained above.

You literally as a thick as a brick wall.

[C70R]

xjay1337 said:

C70R said:

ET: XJ, I got halfway through that waffle before I realised that you had basically made up a scenario (£18k income - only £3k over minimum wage!) that bore no relationship to your own. Talk about goalpost shifting. You really should just concede defeat on this one.

Edited by C70R on Monday 24th October 13:45

I'm sorry, you must be seriously obtuse.

I explained that, for young people it was very difficult.

I gave you an example of MY PERSONAL situation several years ago where I said I was earning in the high 20's and was only able to get a Mortgage for £125,000 or there abouts.
We rounded this up to £140k total price (£130k Mortgage + £10k deposit) it seems.
You seem to base your entire argument on me spending money on my car when I am not saying that I couldn't personally get a Mortgage but that a lot of people my age would not be able to for reasons I've explained above.

You literally as a thick as a brick wall.

The issue is your reading comprehension, as well as your inability to concede an argument gracefully. This seems to be a feature of your threads on here, in-between the narcissism.

For the probably the tenth time... deep breath needed... the facts...
[b]Your application was either poorly-timed (credit crunch), or there was some underlying issue with your credit profile. As such, at that particular time, you were only offered a low mortgage multiplier.
I've explained that you could today borrow up to £140k from numerous providers, to add to your £10k savings, thus giving you around £150k to spend. Over 30 years, this will cost ~£570/mth.
Added to this, I've provided a number of perfectly suitable properties for someone looking to get onto the housing ladder.[/b]

You held up your own circumstances as an example of how "it isn't straightforward" for young people to get on the property ladder. I demonstrated, unequivocally (read the bolded bit slowly and carefully), that it was entirely "straightforward".

You have had numerous tantrums when it was suggested you might have to curtail some of your 'lifestyle' expenditure to get onto the housing ladder, or that you might need to live in an area that you wouldn't otherwise choose.
It was this behaviour which made me suggest that you don't really understand how to properly prioritise financially.

Hopefully that was all reasonably clear. If not, do feel free to shout.

[C70R]

As an aside, if someone is unfortunate enough to only earn £3k over minimum wage, getting on the property ladder in most of the country would be borderline impossible. It's these people who should rely on social housing, rental property and help-to-buy/shared-ownership schemes.

Or, you know, they could work a bit harder, or wait until they are earning more. Home ownership isn't some sort of birthright...

[xjay1337]

I give up. Whatever. You win.

You clearly know what it's like to be a young person on a young persons salary.

[HustleRussell]

C70R said:

I've explained that you could today borrow up to £140k from numerous providers, to add to your £10k savings, thus giving you around £150k to spend. Over 30 years, this will cost ~£570/mth.

I don't believe a mortgage lender would agree that with a FTB on the average salary of a 25 year old. I could be wrong but I suspect that the guides you're looking at on the internet don't necessarily translate to an agreement in principle.

In any case, once legal fees, mortgage arrangement fees and costs are factored into the equation, it's likely that you aren't still going to have a £10k deposit.

[C70R]

HustleRussell said:

I don't believe a mortgage lender would agree that with a FTB on the average salary

What you're really saying is that you can't be bothered to go to the MoneySupermarket mortgage comparison tool and check. Instead, you'd prefer to look clever by disagreeing with me.
Well, that one backfired...

Representative example: A mortgage of £140,000 payable over 30 years, initially on a fixed rate for 38 months at 2.79% and then on our tracker rate of 2.49% above the Lenders Bank Base Rate for the remaining 322 months would require 38 monthly payments of £574.51 and 322 monthly payments of £571.13. The total amount payable would be £206,045.00 made up of the loan amount plus interest (£65,735.00) and valuation fee (£180). The overall cost for comparison is 2.8% APRC representative.

[supercommuter]

I'm a young person, or I was when i bought my house (25). Made lots of sacrifices, sold my expensive car, stopped going out to expensive engagements etc - but still spent time with mates.

I did the Government help to buy scheme (20 percent equity loan) as have a very good salary for my age but only a £10k deposit at the time I found the property. I will remortgage and absorb the shared 20 percent which has only cost me the value gained on the house. The extra money from the government means i put down 25 percent deposit in the eyes of the mortgage company.

This meant cheaper mortgage rate and means I have overpaid enough in the 4 year period to absorb the cost of the shared ownership with minimal impact on my mortgage cost per month.

I live in an OK area. Not the centre of the city, because I cannot afford to live there comfortably, despite the fact I would like tho.

Hopefully have it all paid off in 10 or 12 years

[NickCQ]

Captainawesome said:

Do some research on debt creating money.

Debt doesn't create money, debt IS money. That's how banking works - the real 'product' that a bank is selling maturity transformation or time value.

But the difference with banking versus older models is that we regulate capital requirements rather than reserve requirements (i.e. solvency rather than liquidity), so there's no limit to money creation when you can repo sovereigns with the ECB ad infinitum with no capital requirements and minimal haircuts.

Edited by NickCQ on Monday 24th October 15:00

[C70R]

supercommuter said:

I'm a young person, or I was when i bought my house (25). Made lots of sacrifices, sold my expensive car, stopped going out to expensive engagements etc - but still spent time with mates.

I did the Government help to buy scheme (20 percent equity loan) as have a very good salary for my age but only a £10k deposit at the time I found the property. I will remortgage and absorb the shared 20 percent which has only cost me the value gained on the house. The extra money from the government means i put down 25 percent deposit in the eyes of the mortgage company.

This meant cheaper mortgage rate and means I have overpaid enough in the 4 year period to absorb the cost of the shared ownership with minimal impact on my mortgage cost per month.

I live in an OK area. Not the centre of the city, because I cannot afford to live there comfortably, despite the fact I would like tho.

Hopefully have it all paid off in 10 or 12 years

But how did you survive without a car to start a thread about on PH? Did you not feel deprived by not being able to go to the cinema or buy computer games?

In all seriousness, yours is a textbook example of someone who got off their backside and made it work - rather than creating barriers.

[HustleRussell]

C70R said:

HustleRussell said:

I don't believe a mortgage lender would agree that with a FTB on the average salary

What you're really saying is that you can't be bothered to go to the MoneySupermarket mortgage comparison tool and check. Instead, you'd prefer to look clever by disagreeing with me.
Well, that one backfired...

Representative example: A mortgage of £140,000 payable over 30 years, initially on a fixed rate for 38 months at 2.79% and then on our tracker rate of 2.49% above the Lenders Bank Base Rate for the remaining 322 months would require 38 monthly payments of £574.51 and 322 monthly payments of £571.13. The total amount payable would be £206,045.00 made up of the loan amount plus interest (£65,735.00) and valuation fee (£180). The overall cost for comparison is 2.8% APRC representative.

No, I have spent some time looking at that tool, and am aware that it is a tool and will not produce an agreement in principle any more than a spanner will produce an MOT certificate. We are told that applying for a number of mortgages is detrimental to our credit rating, so you wouldn't want to do it willy nilly- but guess what, when our 25 year old applies for that product, he or she is told that they can't afford it on their salary and they can only have £****** instead, or that as they are higher risk the interest rate will actually be Y.Y%.

[C70R]

HustleRussell said:

C70R said:

HustleRussell said:

I don't believe a mortgage lender would agree that with a FTB on the average salary

What you're really saying is that you can't be bothered to go to the MoneySupermarket mortgage comparison tool and check. Instead, you'd prefer to look clever by disagreeing with me.
Well, that one backfired...

Representative example: A mortgage of £140,000 payable over 30 years, initially on a fixed rate for 38 months at 2.79% and then on our tracker rate of 2.49% above the Lenders Bank Base Rate for the remaining 322 months would require 38 monthly payments of £574.51 and 322 monthly payments of £571.13. The total amount payable would be £206,045.00 made up of the loan amount plus interest (£65,735.00) and valuation fee (£180). The overall cost for comparison is 2.8% APRC representative.

No, I have spent some time looking at that tool, and am aware that it is a tool and will not produce an agreement in principle any more than a spanner will produce an MOT certificate. We are told that applying for a number of mortgages is detrimental to our credit rating, so you wouldn't want to do it willy nilly- but guess what, when our 25 year old applies for that product, he or she is told that they can't afford it on their salary and they can only have £****** instead, or that as they are higher risk the interest rate will actually be Y.Y%.

Please, leave it. That site produces 6 pages of mortgages at 93% LTV for first-time buyers. No amount of bluster from you makes it less true.
To add to that, the link I posted a couple of pages earlier demonstrates that Barclays (my italicised example) would offer more than £140k/5x in this instance.


ETA: Before you find something else to move the goalposts on, I'm not suggesting anyone borrow 5.5x. Merely pointing out that the amount/multiplier in question is eminently achievable.

Edited by C70R on Monday 24th October 15:15

[tomcrowther]

21 here, car history (of any note) is as follows:

MK3 Golf GTI 16v (wanted one for years and it was my first major purchase upon starting full time work, bought at 19)

Audi A3 1.8t (Golf broke lots, started to hate the bloody thing and the idea of boost and more power loomed, bought at 20)

E46 320ci (bored of hatchbacks and wanted to try out RWD, the hilariously poor decision to get the first one I saw happened, bought at 20)

2007 A4 Avant 2.0tfsi Quattro (needed something for lugging downhill bikes around, it was cheap, not necessarily what I wanted (e46 330d touring) and so far it's been the best car I've owned!)

[Devil2575]

C70R said:

I posted a couple of pages earlier demonstrates that Barclays (my italicised example) would offer more than £140k/5x in this instance.

I bank with Barclays and I was in recently talking to them about an unrelated matter. At the end of the discussion they wanted 5 minutes to do the usual sales pitch and informed me that based on my salary and financial obligations they would be prepared to give me a mortage of £Xk, or about 5 times my salary. I was quite supprised because when I moved house 4 years ago lenders were only offering about 3 to 3.5 times my salary.

[PTF]

When i was 19 i was on my 3rd car.

Peugeot 405 GRDTurbo saloon (it had the word "turbo" on the boot so was cool IMO!)

Great car. I spent a fortune on it. Got it into peugeot for a service and got mugged with a £700 bill for lots of bits n pieces.

Really looked after it

Then at uni one evening someone tried to flag me down for a taxi ride. Much laughing from mates.

Within weeks it was traded for a 205 GTI

[sparks_E39]

C70R said:

As an aside, if someone is unfortunate enough to only earn £3k over minimum wage, getting on the property ladder in most of the country would be borderline impossible. It's these people who should rely on social housing, rental property and help-to-buy/shared-ownership schemes.

Or, you know, they could work a bit harder, or wait until they are earning more. Home ownership isn't some sort of birthright...

I earn around £20k and do not consider myself unfortunate at all. With my partners salary (circa £17k) we are actually quite comfortable. We have £700ish between us after all bills, which is a nice amount to have disposable. Granted we rent, we don't actually want to buy.