Young people and sensible boring saloons

Young people and sensible boring saloons

Author
Discussion

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
S10GTA said:
But this is the point we're trying to make, be it your case or another person. If they want a house they need to make sacrifices, a new car is a luxury. A car is a luxury to be honest! Its the entitled generation thing again. My parents only had one car and my step-dad used to work shifts with a 6am start. As a child I'd either be dragged out of bed at 05.30 or he would ride to work.

They don't "need" a reliable car. They want.
With bells on!
My folks had a £60 FIAT 500 when they got married in the 1970s, and lived with my grandparents for two years post-marriage to save for a house. They were both working at the time, and had exactly the same morning routine. My dad would routinely leave the house around 6am so that he could drive 30 miles in the wrong direction and drop my mother off, before going 30+ miles the other way to get himself to work.

I'm sure they wanted a new car at the time, or even a car that wasn't being repaired every weekend. But they didn't buy one, because their priority was to buy a house.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
yeah? well my granddad fought in the war but doesn't mean I should take a fking spitfire to work does it.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
C70R said:
I'm in my early 30s, you utterly hysterical blouse. I've worked in sub-minimum wage sales jobs, and don't have the luxury of a University education to fall back on.

Now, please tell me how I have "no idea". laughrolleyes
you mustn't have student debt then either!

You've obviously done well for yourself if you own 2 properties.
Either you and your Mrs earn serious wedge, or, you've had quite a bit of help.

From your general attitude I think we can tell what. Then again sales you get a lot of money for chatting bks so...
Oh Lord. Your ego knows no bounds, does it? Your desperation for the last word is forcing you to resort to being abusive.

I'm not here to prostrate myself before you, but I feel like you would benefit from a life lesson.
I left University after 3 years because of a family bereavement, and chose to stay with my family (and work said sub-min wage job) rather than return and complete. I paid back student debt just like everyone else.
I had approximately zero financial support from my parents, and worked my way (via non-sales jobs - not sure why the hatred for sales though) into a decent living. I've lived in plenty of sh*tholes and made a bucketload of concessions along the way too.

The difference between you and I?
I don't make excuses. I don't go looking for problems. I don't put up unnecessary barriers.

Now, go and have a long, hard think about how much of a wally you've made yourself look.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Nanook said:
C70R said:
Oh Lord. Your ego knows no bounds, does it?
Most ironic line in the thread, closely followed by

C70R said:
Now, go and have a long, hard think about how much of a wally you've made yourself look.
I've always admired the way that you manage to post so much yet add so little value to PH. Do keep it up! laugh

ETA: Why not toddle off back to The Lounge and continue to start such classic threads as "If you could ask someone from 2116 5 question...".
(See, it's easy to forum stalk laugh)

Edited by C70R on Tuesday 25th October 11:18

funkyrobot

18,789 posts

227 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
For the last time

I'm not complaining about my personal situation!!!! Can we stop bringing up my car, that has nothing to do with it.
As you can see from my example above, on a normal 18-25 year olds Salary you can't buy jack st if you already rent or lodge. But at the same time you can't live at home because that means you are a failure!

Also I've spent about £9k on the engine, so get your facts right please! And well done if yours is faster. Hope you feel proud laugh



Edited by xjay1337 on Tuesday 25th October 09:39
On a side note, what does £9k get you on a (diesel?) VW engine? I'm intrigued as this is significantly more than I am currently wishing to spend on a whole car. Also, I thought I'd take this back to a PH related theme again.

smile

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
C70R said:
Oh Lord. Your ego knows no bounds, does it? Your desperation for the last word is forcing you to resort to being abusive.

I'm not here to prostrate myself before you, but I feel like you would benefit from a life lesson.
I left University after 3 years because of a family bereavement, and chose to stay with my family (and work said sub-min wage job) rather than return and complete. I paid back student debt just like everyone else.
I had approximately zero financial support from my parents, and worked my way (via non-sales jobs - not sure why the hatred for sales though) into a decent living. I've lived in plenty of sh*tholes and made a bucketload of concessions along the way too.

The difference between you and I?
I don't make excuses. I don't go looking for problems. I don't put up unnecessary barriers.

Now, go and have a long, hard think about how much of a wally you've made yourself look.
Ha ha, last word, coming from you :-) The bit about ego is ironic too, this whole thread (and towards others in other threads) you generally talk down to people rather than engage in a discussion, making little digs here and there!

Nice life story. I am glad you have a good life.

My life is good. I don't look for problems either. I'm explaining how for most young people they do not have the luxury.
My choice to spend money on my car is not an excuse, problem or barrier.

You can't live at home with parents because you / others mock them.
You can't live independently and save for a mortgage because on £18-£20k a year you don't have enough money spare.

I remember looking at a house 5 years ago, nice little 1 bed semi detached with a garage.
£160k
Same property sold in March for... £215k.

IN 5 YEARS A JUMP OF £55k. Bonkers.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
funkyrobot said:
On a side note, what does £9k get you on a (diesel?) VW engine? I'm intrigued as this is significantly more than I am currently wishing to spend on a whole car. Also, I thought I'd take this back to a PH related theme again.

smile
Depends what engine mate

Older PD engine, £9k will probably build you one of the most powerful engines.
That's enough to bore a 1.9 out to 2.0 or 2.1, oversized pistons, big injectors, massive turbo, manfold, intercoolers etc.
I would say 400bhp easily, you can get 300bhp for about £3-4k if you're careful.

On the common rail engine (what I have) it's a lot more for a lot less.
Remap really does liven them up, my turbo kit was £2k + vat for example took me from my stock 164 to remapped 194 to big turbo 240-250.

I was the first UK VW running upgrdaed CP3 pump without any issues, the amount of time spent on ECU calibration would boggle your mind. These are about £700 + the time to map easily a £1500 job. cambelt also needs to come off so may as well do that, closer to £1800 all in with labour.

clutch supporting mods etc need to be done as well regardless of manual or dsg.

then when you have enough rail pressure you find you hit cylinder head flow restrictions so need that ported.

i'm set to spend another £2500 on camshaft and ported head with oversized valves over winter.

to be fair I would just do a DPF delete and a remap,you can get up to 210bhp on a CR170 with a decent custom remap and smoke free.
Over that it's very expensive.

I'm not exactly sure what my car is running power wise now. It can vary depending on how hot it is as we are hitting EGT limits so power is cutting back.
On a good day I reckon it's 280-290 but anywhere between 260 and 300bhp.
This is the absolute (safe) limit for EMP and EGT. we could remove EGT protection but we already are hitting 950c

funkyrobot

18,789 posts

227 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
House prices have been fked up for a while now. I simply cannot understand how the market has become so expensive. It's utterly crazy.

The person who owned my house years and years ago bought it for £67,000. They sold it a few years later for £177,000. That's over £100k just from being a homeowner at the time.

Home ownership is something that has penalised younger people, simply because they are younger.

I find it utterly bizarre the way house prices have been allowed to get so expensive. I bought my first home three years ago, so I know it isn't easy.

funkyrobot

18,789 posts

227 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
Depends what engine mate

Older PD engine, £9k will probably build you one of the most powerful engines.
That's enough to bore a 1.9 out to 2.0 or 2.1, oversized pistons, big injectors, massive turbo, manfold, intercoolers etc.
I would say 400bhp easily, you can get 300bhp for about £3-4k if you're careful.

On the common rail engine (what I have) it's a lot more for a lot less.
Remap really does liven them up, my turbo kit was £2k + vat for example took me from my stock 164 to remapped 194 to big turbo 240-250.

I was the first UK VW running upgrdaed CP3 pump without any issues, the amount of time spent on ECU calibration would boggle your mind. These are about £700 + the time to map easily a £1500 job. cambelt also needs to come off so may as well do that, closer to £1800 all in with labour.

clutch supporting mods etc need to be done as well regardless of manual or dsg.

then when you have enough rail pressure you find you hit cylinder head flow restrictions so need that ported.

i'm set to spend another £2500 on camshaft and ported head with oversized valves over winter.

to be fair I would just do a DPF delete and a remap,you can get up to 210bhp on a CR170 with a decent custom remap and smoke free.
Over that it's very expensive.

I'm not exactly sure what my car is running power wise now. It can vary depending on how hot it is as we are hitting EGT limits so power is cutting back.
On a good day I reckon it's 280-290 but anywhere between 260 and 300bhp.
This is the absolute (safe) limit for EMP and EGT. we could remove EGT protection but we already are hitting 950c
Extreme diesel engineering. Sounds like fun. smile

Did you do any of it yourself or was it done by specific specialists?

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I think we can (should?) perhaps all agree that the "right" answer, if there is such a thing, is probably inbetween mine and C70R's point of view.

To be fair I think I've said all I can and so I will now just agree to disagree. It is starting to get very personal and vicious which isn't what I'm on a forum to entertain!

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
funkyrobot said:
Extreme diesel engineering. Sounds like fun. smile

Did you do any of it yourself or was it done by specific specialists?
I bankroll it lol.

I try and get as involved as I can, I understand some of the specifics and the mechanical side but my friend Bobby does all my ECU tuning and the magic is really all in that. The hardware isn't that hard to get working.

Getting a stable rail pressure when cruising for example took 4 days and 200 miles.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Well no, but given that god doesn't exist how could it be wink

However shelter is a basic human requirement and it is not unreasonable to expect that if you are in full time employment you should be able to afford to buy a house. The notion that people should "just work harder" is a lot of crap to be honest. There will always be people in lower paid employment no matter how hard they work, these jobs need doing and so there will always have to be people to do them. The idea that such people don't have a right to expect to be able to buy a house, or at the very least have access to long term secure housing is morally reprehensible IMHO.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
The idea that such people don't have a right to expect to be able to buy a house, or at the very least have access to long term secure housing is morally reprehensible IMHO.
I presume you've never heard of social housing? Or shared ownership? Or the Government-sponsored help-to-buy scheme? Or core-worker housing schemes?

IanCormac

1,894 posts

192 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
I'm sorry, you may have mis understood.

I am trying to explain how it could be difficult for your average young person who is on a normal young persons salary (between £16k and £20k per annum).

I then explained how, at the time (3+ years ago), I tried to apply for a Mortgage and with a £10k deposit, I was only able to get £125k mortgage. At the time I was earning close to £30k. Which is far more than the average income of your standard 22 year old.
So assuming that is still true how the fk will someone earning £18k or £20k manage, if they live in my area?

I would like a house but I am not DESPERATE and PERSONALLY I would rather rent in a nicer area than buy a house I don't want to live in, in a worse area. I am young and very much into my cars, and it makes sense to do these things now while I am free from children or a mortgage, and no doubt in 10 years the modification of cars will be banned altogether anyway!

I know if I wanted I could probably be on the housing ladder now, I earn nearly double what I did 3 years ago. Combined with my Mrs' salary, we could manage quite happily. However, over the last 2 or 3 years that is not what I have wished to do, I wanted to do the cars instead.

Unfortunately most young people do not have the choice and do not earn enough.

I fully admit that things may have changed with regards to mortgage amounts, but I was trying to give some insight to the fact that your single young person has absolutely no hope of getting their own property on a standard young persons salary given

- The average income of 22 to 29 year olds is around £18-£20k
- Assuming the young person already lives independently either in a private rent or houseshare / lodging arrangement
- That young person needs a reliable car and has likely bought a new car recently on lease or with a loan (fixed monthly cost for reliable transport)
- Being young their car insurance will be very high.

I didn't know C70R was renting, and that is very funny and ironic. But that's his choice and I won't judge/assume.

I wish the personal digs towards my choice of spending money / car would stop. My money and my choice what to spend it on. When I actually complain that I can't get a house, feel free to berate me. When I'm saying that young people (in general) can't afford a house, then maybe leave my car and spending out it, eh?

Edited by xjay1337 on Tuesday 25th October 10:10
You stated how hard It is to save when cinema, meals out and most importantly car finance came into it. Most people just states that you don't need to go out to the cinema, or for meals and you certainly don't need car finance as a cheap car that is fully paid for is perfectly fine instead of a brand new one with monthly payments.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
funkyrobot said:
House prices have been fked up for a while now. I simply cannot understand how the market has become so expensive. It's utterly crazy.

The person who owned my house years and years ago bought it for £67,000. They sold it a few years later for £177,000. That's over £100k just from being a homeowner at the time.

Home ownership is something that has penalised younger people, simply because they are younger.

I find it utterly bizarre the way house prices have been allowed to get so expensive. I bought my first home three years ago, so I know it isn't easy.
I agree, house prices are insane especially in certain parts of the country.

My inlaws recently sold a 2 bedroom flat (The top floor of a typical semi detached house) in Epsom for £300k. Madness.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
C70R said:
Devil2575 said:
The idea that such people don't have a right to expect to be able to buy a house, or at the very least have access to long term secure housing is morally reprehensible IMHO.
I presume you've never heard of social housing? Or shared ownership? Or the Government-sponsored help-to-buy scheme? Or core-worker housing schemes?
Yes I have. I did say "or at least access to long term secure housing".

The government sponsored help to buy scheme is a way of getting people on the housing ladder without actualy doing anyhting about the elephant in the room, the fact that houses in many parts of the country are simply to expensive.



Edited by Devil2575 on Tuesday 25th October 12:32

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Nanook said:
Devil2575 said:
Well no, but given that god doesn't exist how could it be wink

However shelter is a basic human requirement and it is not unreasonable to expect that if you are in full time employment you should be able to afford to buy a house. The notion that people should "just work harder" is a lot of crap to be honest. There will always be people in lower paid employment no matter how hard they work, these jobs need doing and so there will always have to be people to do them. The idea that such people don't have a right to expect to be able to buy a house, or at the very least have access to long term secure housing is morally reprehensible IMHO.
So 16 year olds should be able to come straight out of school and get a job stacking shelfs, and be able to afford to buy their own house?

Sounds great, but it's not going to happen unfortunately.

Long term secure housing, on the other hand, is not the same as buying your own house.

Edited by Nanook on Tuesday 25th October 11:53
I think that any full time employment should pay a wage sufficient to be independant.

You are right it isn't. The point is that people should be in a situation where they have access to long term secure housing. .

funkyrobot

18,789 posts

227 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
I agree, house prices are insane especially in certain parts of the country.

My inlaws recently sold a 2 bedroom flat (The top floor of a typical semi detached house) in Epsom for £300k. Madness.
Unfortunately, the issue is fuelled by people willing to pay the prices. I know this wouldn't happen, but if everyone stopped buying at such a high price, wouldn't the market have to adjust?

When we bought three years ago we had a right old time. We were in no rush, my fiancée had sold and I had saved so we had a good deposit, and we made offers.

At one point, we annoyed an estate agent because we wouldn't be drawn into a bidding war on a property. When we got to our max price, we wouldn't go any further. I was being called literally every 30 minutes by the agent telling me to offer more or I'll lose it. I told him if we lost it, so be it.

We found estate agents to be the most greedy, irresponsible and damn right dishonest people we have ever met. And this was for every agent we spoke to. One got so annoyed with us making an offer that she told the buyer not to even entertain us. This was because we offered £7k below the price the property was up for, not something mad like £30k.

In the end, we found a house that was advertised as 'no offers'. We made an offer and got it for £20k less than it was advertised for. hehe

It is worth noting that the finance and housing buying industries seem geared towards you maxing your expenditure, which doesn't help some people. Estate agents would regularly try to get us to go over budget (as sales people, why wouldn't they). Also, when we did our mortgage, we kept the property purchase price at the low end of our available amount. This would mean we could run the house on one wage. We were regularly told that we could go nearly £130k over our comfortable budget for a house (it's only a few hundred quid extra a month, etc.) We weren't interested.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
I agree, house prices are insane especially in certain parts of the country.

My inlaws recently sold a 2 bedroom flat (The top floor of a typical semi detached house) in Epsom for £300k. Madness.
I live in Epsom. Work in Leatherhead. I'm looking at £220-240k one bed flats. While I could do it, it just doesn't seem like value for money at the moment so I'm enjoying my financial freedom while I can. I'm not sure how soundly I could sleep at night with 160k owing and the industry which pays my salary on tenterhooks (Oil & Gas).

I am the exception rather than the rule though, in the case of most of my friends I cannot conceive of a way they could get themselves into a property which was vaguely affordable for them without pairing up, living like a hermit or moving back in with the folks for a matter of years.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
funkyrobot said:
Unfortunately, the issue is fuelled by people willing to pay the prices. I know this wouldn't happen, but if everyone stopped buying at such a high price, wouldn't the market have to adjust?
True, but a far more effective way of achieving the same thing would be to set a cap of the multiple of salary that lenders can offer.
Lenders offering more only serves to drive prices higher still. I believe the same thing happened in years gone by when lenders started to take two wages in account rather than one.

funkyrobot said:
One got so annoyed with us making an offer that she told the buyer not to even entertain us. This was because we offered £7k below the price the property was up for, not something mad like £30k.
My mother in law had a similar experience. In the end she put a note through the door of the house in question advising the owner to have a chat with the estate agent because they had told her that they wouldn't even tell them of the offer as it just wasn't enough. It was 10k below the asking price for a propertly up for about £250k.

funkyrobot said:

Also, when we did our mortgage, we kept the property purchase price at the low end of our available amount. This would mean we could run the house on one wage. We were regularly told that we could go nearly £130k over our comfortable budget for a house (it's only a few hundred quid extra a month, etc.) We weren't interested.
We did similar both times we bought a house.