RE: Revised Toyota GT86 on the way

[Guvernator]

Yet again people seem to be confusing the want for something to be done to the engine as a chase for more power\speed for the sake of it. Yes that might well be the case for some but their are also a lot of people where that isn't so.

200bhp is plenty for a reasonably lightweight-ish road car, A Honda Integra or Civic Type R with that power is a joy to drive for example. What I don't like is the way this engine delivers that power, it's just not a very good example of an N\A engine, it could have 300bhp and still feel rubbish if it delivered that power in the way it does now. Quite surprising really as I think the N\A boxer engine has the potential to be a bit more interesting than a normal 4 pot but I suspect a lot of this is down to emissions requirements. It's actually very difficult to get a zingy charismatic N\A engine to meet those requirements these days which might explain the odd mapping and lack of revvability.

[CABC]

Guvernator said:

It's actually very difficult to get a zingy charismatic N\A engine to meet those requirements these days which might explain the odd mapping and lack of revvability.

can i add another major problem i have with modern cars that rarely gets the same focus - gear ratios. Legislation is the cause of some great cars rolling out with truly inappropriate gear ratios that very much hamper the enjoyment for driving enthusiasts.

Ironically this is less of a problem for the 86 as it firstly doesn't suffer *too* much, and secondly to change the final drive in a rwd car is way less than 1k fully fitted. Unfortunately with transverse engines it gets more costly.

[Sko77y]

Perhaps taking a leaf out of Mazda's book would have been a better option, a purer lower capacity engine and a more speed focused larger capacity option.

I do agree that these cars are built to have limits far easier to attain on a public road ,rather than only a track.

Also, that front bumper looks awful!

[AH33]

Would it be so hard to shove a lower capacity turbo engine into it if emissions are a worry?

Or maybe even some sort of hybrid gubbins?

[VeeFource]

AH33 said:

Would it be so hard to shove a lower capacity turbo engine into it if emissions are a worry?

Or maybe even some sort of hybrid gubbins?

[Tuvra]

mikey P 500 said:

Yes I have seen a few low miles (sub 30k and 3 yr old normally go for about £11.5k to £13k even trade) often bought by Toyota network too who then retail them,not many high mileage ones about, and never seen one trade. I think due to limited numbers they will keep there price fairly well. (Car wow can do new ones for about £19k though) so they don't really loose much for a new car over the first few years.

I can now confirm this is not true. The best price CarWow would do yesterday for a Standard GT86 was £21,936.00 (Toyota Teeside).

A standard 2.0 Mazda MX5 came back at £19,441.00 (Stoke-on-Trent Mazda).

[Save Ferris]

Tuvra said:

mikey P 500 said:

Yes I have seen a few low miles (sub 30k and 3 yr old normally go for about £11.5k to £13k even trade) often bought by Toyota network too who then retail them,not many high mileage ones about, and never seen one trade. I think due to limited numbers they will keep there price fairly well. (Car wow can do new ones for about £19k though) so they don't really loose much for a new car over the first few years.

I can now confirm this is not true. The best price CarWow would do yesterday for a Standard GT86 was £21,936.00 (Toyota Teeside).

A standard 2.0 Mazda MX5 came back at £19,441.00 (Stoke-on-Trent Mazda).

I assume he means a Primo which retails at £22,495 (before any Carwow discounts)

[Alex_225]

I'm sure it's a nice enough car and although it's not my kind of thing, pictures don't seem to do the looks justice.

For me though, it is still that lack of grunt that makes it underwhelming on paper and the looks don't entice me enough to want to have a go in one.

I just had a quick look on the Toyota website at the cost spec'd one how I'd want it and the price was £28k! Nearly thirty grand for a car with 200bhp, no matter how much fun it may be just doesn't flick my switch. There are hot hatches around this price offering more power, great handling and a better spec.

I have nothing against the ethos of the car, I own a Twingo 133 so I'm aware that fun isn't determined by all out power but as a 'new' car the GT86 isn't a contender and these updates don't address the gripe most petrolhead have with the car.

[chopper602]

As an ex-GT86 owner (lured to the power of a Volvo Polestar with 350bhp), I really like the look of the styling of this, especially the interior changes. Mine never felt under powered, the only thing I was a little disappointed with was the paintwork and the build quality (It's NOT a Toyota).

When I'm ready for a change again, I will certainly take a test drive in the latest iteration of the car.

[otolith]

A hot hatch will (or should) always offer more bang for your buck. That's the point of them. That's why you put up with the front wheel drive and shopping car format.

[Tuvra]

otolith said:

A hot hatch will (or should) always offer more bang for your buck. That's the point of them. That's why you put up with the front wheel drive and shopping car format.

Are you stuck in 2008?

[Swordman]

Ok, let's just summarise this car's disadvantages with some of its competitors:

Gt86 - pricey, not powerful
Hot hatches - front wheel drive
Focus RS - heavy
Mx5 - two seater
Elise - two seater, pricey
Bmw 2 series - heavy, fake engine noise, offset driving position
Diesel rep mobile - horrid driving experience
Audi TT - fwd/ drives like a fwd

So there we have it. Buy what you like, knowing that everything is some type of compromise.

[xRIEx]

Swordman said:

Ok, let's just summarise this car's disadvantages with some of its competitors:

Gt86 - pricey, not powerful
Hot hatches - front wheel drive
Focus RS - heavy
Mx5 - two seater
Elise - two seater, pricey
Bmw 2 series - heavy, fake engine noise, offset driving position
Diesel rep mobile - horrid driving experience
Audi TT - fwd/ drives like a fwd

So there we have it. Buy what you like, knowing that everything is some type of compromise.

Hang on, the GT86 that starts at £22,500 list gets the "pricey" adjective, but 'Hot Hatches', 'Focus RS', 'BMW 2 Series' and 'Audi TT' don't? There's only the MX-5 on that list that's cheaper than the '86 (depending on what qualifies as a hot hatch - I'd say anything currently less than £22.5k is probably in 'warm' territory).

[grumbledoak]

xRIEx said:

Hang on, the GT86 that starts at £22,500 list gets the "pricey" adjective, but 'Hot Hatches', 'Focus RS', 'BMW 2 Series' and 'Audi TT' don't? There's only the MX-5 on that list that's cheaper than the '86 (depending on what qualifies as a hot hatch - I'd say anything currently less than £22.5k is probably in 'warm' territory).

You say that as though these threads are full of sensible comparisons right up to that one post.

Edited by grumbledoak on Wednesday 13th July 19:55

[otolith]

Tuvra said:

otolith said:

A hot hatch will (or should) always offer more bang for your buck. That's the point of them. That's why you put up with the front wheel drive and shopping car format.

Are you stuck in 2008?

The 30-40k shopping cars with big engines and 4wd aren't the things that make sports cars and coupes look expensive for their performance - the come out the other side where they start to look bloody expensive for a tarted up hatchback.

[xRIEx]

grumbledoak said:

xRIEx said:

Hang on, the GT86 that starts at £22,500 list gets the "pricey" adjective, but 'Hot Hatches', 'Focus RS', 'BMW 2 Series' and 'Audi TT' don't? There's only the MX-5 on that list that's cheaper than the '86 (depending on what qualifies as a hot hatch - I'd say anything currently less than £22.5k is probably in 'warm' territory).

You say that as though these threads are full of sensible comparisons right up to that one post.

Edited by grumbledoak on Wednesday 13th July 19:55

Good point, well made.

[mikey P 500]

Save Ferris said:

I assume he means a Primo which retails at £22,495 (before any Carwow discounts)

Yes was a primo (in red) and about 2 mths ago think the best price was £19180, most the quotes started with a £19. Think they have now built all the pre facelift cars so if these are sold may be harder to get discount at the moment.

[ChrisRS6]

Wonder if they finally give it some stylish alloy wheels?

The Max Power stuff it comes with are truely awful!!

[LankyLegoHead]

Johnnytheboy said:

No. You're wrong.

You either LOVE the GT86, or all you want in life is a white German diesel. On lease.

I was just making a very common comparison that everyone else seems to make (diesel 3 series is "Faster" but in my experience 200bhp > 177bhp or w/e there are now )

And yes, the wheels are fking dreadful standard. And yes, I'm still running them haha!

[Tuvra]

otolith said:

The 30-40k shopping cars with big engines and 4wd aren't the things that make sports cars and coupes look expensive for their performance - the come out the other side where they start to look bloody expensive for a tarted up hatchback.

What 4wd hot hatch has a big engine? Tarted up hatch backs, jesus, take the rose tinted spectacles off.....Where does the RWD BMW 135i that was available for around £27k sit into your ridiculously biased argument?

Not wanting to drive a hot hatch, fair enough, but to play them down as boring and just "tarted up hatchbacks" is bordering on ridiculous, half the time they don't look that much different to the standard models. Whats frustrating is your not even targeting one car here, its the whole bloody category of cars

mikey P 500 said:

Yes was a primo (in red) and about 2 mths ago think the best price was £19180, most the quotes started with a £19. Think they have now built all the pre facelift cars so if these are sold may be harder to get discount at the moment.