RE: Revised Toyota GT86 on the way

[PBDirector]

that being said.... How are the fensport & litchfiekd conversions on these (and how do you insure them if you get the conversions?)

[cerb4.5lee]

Alex said:

P.S. To all those who like their Audi, VW, Seat and BMW turbos.

In many ways, the GT86 is a very old-fashioned. It's noisy, unrefined, a bit rattley, the interior is good quality but basic, and the gear change can be clunky. If you're used to your toys and refinement, you might not like it.

It's the engine and performance I don't like about it...everything else about it is right up my street, I love Jap cars and cars with a N/A engine/manual gearbox/RWD and LSD, I just wish it had a better engine and was a little quicker.

[nickfrog]

CABC said:

Guvernator said:

200bhp is a little low in today's world of 300bhp hot hatches but I could live with it. What I can't live with is the characterless nature of that engine. If it had a 200bhp Honda Vtec type unit which screamed to 8krpm it would be brilliant. A turbo version would be nice as an alternative choice for the power hungry but they really need to do something about the dull standard engine. The Cosworth tuning package livens it up considerably by all accounts, not sure why Toyobaru just don't offer something like that from the factory with a warranty.

that's a better criticism. it works well 5 - 7.5k, which if you like NA cars and using the gearbox is fine, but before that it's a let down totally agree. A better exhaust would be a simple fix to the mood of the car if legislation permitted.

I think it'd would be unfair to criticise it for it only having 200hp. Sadly it doesn't produce 200hp and it feels like 150hp.

The top end is poor too, you expect at least a decent top end, but it never really delivers IME, nowhere near as decent as a good VTEC. It's bizarrely mapped, full of holes, as if it had been sabotaged. It's a brilliant car overall and I normally don't care much about the engine but on this occasion the engine is so poor it spoils the car completely. They really cocked up a brilliant recipe because of it.

I am not a turbo fan (although I can live with a decent one, they're not all equal) and I agree it should be the LAST thing this car needs. But in reality it's the only thing that could save it, because the current engine is so abysmally terrible. I appreciate this may sound like a contradiction but I mean it.

[Varn]

Ultrafunkula said:

I'm considering a GT86 next, budgeting for 18 inch wheels/grippier tyres, Cosworth stg 1.0 and a UEL manifold for that Boxer sound. I like that it has potential to be modified to suit the driver, my only issue is the tendency for the rear to slide sometimes when not provoked.

I very much doubt the rear steps out without being provoked...

BTW - why would you want more tyre grip?

[Gary C]

nickfrog said:

I think it'd would be unfair to criticise it for it only having 200hp. Sadly it doesn't produce 200hp and it feels like 150hp.

The top end is poor too, you expect at least a decent top end, but it never really delivers IME, nowhere near as decent as a good VTEC. It's bizarrely mapped, full of holes, as if it had been sabotaged. It's a brilliant car overall and I normally don't care much about the engine but on this occasion the engine is so poor it spoils the car completely. They really cocked up a brilliant recipe because of it.

I am not a turbo fan (although I can live with a decent one, they're not all equal) and I agree it should be the LAST thing this car needs. But in reality it's the only thing that could save it, because the current engine is so abysmally terrible. I appreciate this may sound like a contradiction but I mean it.

The mid range torque dip on the current car is odd, and it does seem to colour a lot of people's attitude to it. The cosworth remap/exhaust/thermostat combo does seem to address this nicely, be nice to try the new one to see if that works too.

is the current map emissions related do we think

[Ultrafunkula]

Varn said:

I very much doubt the rear steps out without being provoked...

BTW - why would you want more tyre grip?

Looking at the reviews on youtube (and taking them with a pinch of salt, of course) it seems a bit more wayward than my old 200SX. I'm guessing that's the tyres, but I'm not really after a loose rear end (!) so much now. I want that characteristic to be on tap if I really provoke the car and not at other times, RWD for me is more about the uncorrupted steering than drifting now.
I remember watching a comparison when the wheels were changed for larger ones with normal sports tyres on a track and it seemed to make it more like what I'm after.

[Gary C]

Ultrafunkula said:

Varn said:

I very much doubt the rear steps out without being provoked...

BTW - why would you want more tyre grip?

Looking at the reviews on youtube (and taking them with a pinch of salt, of course) it seems a bit more wayward than my old 200SX. I'm guessing that's the tyres, but I'm not really after a loose rear end (!) so much now. I want that characteristic to be on tap if I really provoke the car and not at other times, RWD for me is more about the uncorrupted steering than drifting now.
I remember watching a comparison when the wheels were changed for larger ones with normal sports tyres on a track and it seemed to make it more like what I'm after.

One of the s13 200sx's foibles was the snap oversteer made worse by the loss of throttle response and boost lag. Mine caught me our many a time, even on the m6 in the wet (though only when pressing on, so not totally unprovoked)

Best thing about the gt86 is that being n/a the throttle response and modulation is easy and any step out is down to the driver

[abarber]

Gary C said:

The mid range torque dip on the current car is odd, and it does seem to colour a lot of people's attitude to it. The cosworth remap/exhaust/thermostat combo does seem to address this nicely, be nice to try the new one to see if that works too.

is the current map emissions related do we think

Yeah, exactly. It makes it feel a lot slower than it really is. I will probably end up with a GT86 at some stage, but I'm loathed to have to spend 1-2k plus insurance, sorting out the flat spot. Getting some of the warble back with an UEL would be cool though.

Drive the back to back with the current MX5 2ltr and at normal road speeds / revs, the MX5 feels much quicker and responsive. Rev them out and they are quite similar.

[glazbagun]

It's pretty amazing how the one (only?) thing which has received consistent criticism is the one part they have steadfastly refused to change. Is it something to do with homologation for world markets and CO2 targets? Even then, there'd surely be a place for a more powerful special addition even if it were unreasonably priced.

[KarlMac]

krismccloy said:

Genuinely wonder if I am indeed logged on to PH some days.

Next someone will think it should be equipped with 4wd to make it more competent on our often damp B'roads.

I am seemingly in the the minority who do appreciate the package and Toyota's effort in this cruel world of regulations and price wars. Although I'll admit I would have preferred another 1k added to the redline and a more charismatic exhaust note, I guess once production stops that's when more appreciation will begin.

Agree with you. Its a genuine successor to the AE86, I can see the GT having the same cult following in 10-20 years.

As for various comments regarding sales, theres bloody loads round here of both the Toyota and Subaru variants. I've seen three on my commute today.

[samoht]

Stand by for a significant price hike with these revisions I fear. Yen down from 185 last Nov/Dec to 130 now.

[Conscript]

CABC said:

Guvernator said:

200bhp is a little low in today's world of 300bhp hot hatches but I could live with it. What I can't live with is the characterless nature of that engine. If it had a 200bhp Honda Vtec type unit which screamed to 8krpm it would be brilliant. A turbo version would be nice as an alternative choice for the power hungry but they really need to do something about the dull standard engine. The Cosworth tuning package livens it up considerably by all accounts, not sure why Toyobaru just don't offer something like that from the factory with a warranty.

that's a better criticism. it works well 5 - 7.5k, which if you like NA cars and using the gearbox is fine, but before that it's a let down totally agree. A better exhaust would be a simple fix to the mood of the car if legislation permitted.

I've owned mine for nearly three years now and have loved every minute of it. But I am going to start looking at a few minor tuning options over the next few months, namely an exhaust and perhaps a remap - not so much for the power gains, as I'm pretty happy with the output overall, but I do agree, the engine could do with sounding a bit more characterful. The balance I need to strike is having something that sounds better, but not much louder, as I use mine every day.

[zefal]

I don't care how much people bang on about it being a driver's car and not suited to a turbo....
I don't care what people think - I love turbos, high BHP/torque, whooshing noises, the ripping of big bore exhausts on boost, wastegate chatter and pop/bangs. I hate NA, torque-less engines and skinny wheels

I want a new Supra!
Dear Toyota, please make a wide arched version with decent 2.5l (or bigger) twin turbo version with bare minimum 400BHP/400ft-lbs (yes that's right, I want double the BHP and triple the torque!!!)

[MIP1983]

How do they keep managing to make the aesthetic appeal regress with each iteration? Even from the concept stage.






Vom-tastic.

[Varn]

zefal said:

I don't care how much people bang on about it being a driver's car and not suited to a turbo....
I don't care what people think - I love turbos, high BHP/torque, whooshing noises, the ripping of big bore exhausts on boost, wastegate chatter and pop/bangs. I hate NA, torque-less engines and skinny wheels

I want a new Supra!
Dear Toyota, please make a wide arched version with decent 2.5l (or bigger) twin turbo version with bare minimum 400BHP/400ft-lbs (yes that's right, I want double the BHP and triple the torque!!!)

Also please make it auto and AWD! Actually forget the internal combustion engine and make it pure electric for the torque. Oh and very wide tyres for OTT grip too!

Actually Toyota don't do that...there are still some of us that enjoy the format of the GT86 (most probably due to the skill required to drive).

For the plebs there's always something like a Focus RS.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Guvernator said:

CABC said:

that's a better criticism. it works well 5 - 7.5k, which if you like NA cars and using the gearbox is fine, but before that it's a let down totally agree. A better exhaust would be a simple fix to the mood of the car if legislation permitted.

Looks like there are a few NA tuning options for them now which seem to eliminate torque dip, give it an 25 extra bhp and make it rev\sound better which sounds ideal.

This clip visualises the problem quite nicely. The engine has a horrendous torque curve. 25hp is optimistic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM_QmVF2-fQ

[Tuvra]

Varn said:

For the plebs there's always something like a Focus RS.

Turning to insults because someone has different tastes is pathetic to be honest.

I had a GT86 for a month and couldn't wait to give it back. Dreadfully, dreadfully slow thing. I literally laughed out loud watching a 320D monstering me on twisty roads once, to make it worse he was actually slowing down to let me catch up and then doing it all over again. In fairness it may have been remapped

If you want to throw £25k at a basic one fair enough, but what's stopping them making a Supercharged/Turbo'd version as well? With 300bhp, fatter tyres and a sub £33k fully loaded price tag I think it could genuinely be a great car.

[Ultrafunkula]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

This clip visualises the problem quite nicely. The engine has a horrendous torque curve. 25hp is optimistic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM_QmVF2-fQ

I think the stage 1.0 Cosworth upgrade quotes 15bhp peak, but 40bhp in the midrange where the dip is.

[Conscript]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

This clip visualises the problem quite nicely. The engine has a horrendous torque curve. 25hp is optimistic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM_QmVF2-fQ

Excellent vid, thanks for sharing that

[zefal]

Tuvra said:

Varn said:

For the plebs there's always something like a Focus RS.

Turning to insults because someone has different tastes is pathetic to be honest.

I had a GT86 for a month and couldn't wait to give it back. Dreadfully, dreadfully slow thing. I literally laughed out loud watching a 320D monstering me on twisty roads once, to make it worse he was actually slowing down to let me catch up and then doing it all over again. In fairness it may have been remapped

If you want to throw £25k at a basic one fair enough, but what's stopping them making a Supercharged/Turbo'd version as well? With 300bhp, fatter tyres and a sub £33k fully loaded price tag I think it could genuinely be a great car.

Couldn't agree more, making proper version wouldn't affect the base model. People who enjoy slow characterless cars can still buy one LOL