RE: Revised Toyota GT86 on the way

[Conscript]

Tuvra said:

I had a GT86 for a month and couldn't wait to give it back. Dreadfully, dreadfully slow thing. I literally laughed out loud watching a 320D monstering me on twisty roads once, to make it worse he was actually slowing down to let me catch up and then doing it all over again. In fairness it may have been remapped

I think your viewpoint comes across as a bit exaggerated. I know it's not a powerful car, but I've never found it "dreadfully" slow. Mind you, I'm not interested in racing or comparing against other drivers, if I did perhaps I'd feel the same. As it stands, on a twisty road, I'd still rather be in my Toyota than a diesel saloon, even if it was objectively the quicker car.

[AH33]

Imagine a car that looks like that (I hate the way it looks, but its clearly trying to look "sporty" and most people will think its fast) and then you can't overtake a small hatchback like mine.

[CABC]

Tuvra said:

Turning to insults because someone has different tastes is pathetic to be honest.

yes.
but to be balanced this car has generated a lot of hate in the first place, which is pathetic when there's lots of choice out there.
The car world is a much richer place for the 86, for what it set out to do and what it actually achieves.
The fast Fords are completely different, but thank god Ford are still taking the effort to produce them.
A std 3 series is a fast capable machine true, but that driver would not have been able to enjoy the same sense of involvement in the driving experience. Thank god also that BMW released the M2, different again, but a valid choice.
in other news, i won't be getting a 718 despite it's prodigious torque delivery. i need to get 986 in the fleet.

[W124]

God, this thread is depressing. I'm not prone to laying into people and all that but the GT86 is more, more, than fast enough. If you can't keep up with a 320d in one then I don't know what to say really. That's just odd.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Ultrafunkula said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

This clip visualises the problem quite nicely. The engine has a horrendous torque curve. 25hp is optimistic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM_QmVF2-fQ

I think the stage 1.0 Cosworth upgrade quotes 15bhp peak, but 40bhp in the midrange where the dip is.

That is a very useful gain! What bits do Cosworth replace?

[SuperchargedVR6]

Conscript said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

This clip visualises the problem quite nicely. The engine has a horrendous torque curve. 25hp is optimistic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM_QmVF2-fQ

Excellent vid, thanks for sharing that

Yeah I quite like that channel! And Integrated Engineering do some REALLY tasty bits for the VAG scene.

[Tuvra]

W124 said:

God, this thread is depressing. I'm not prone to laying into people and all that but the GT86 is more, more, than fast enough. If you can't keep up with a 320d in one then I don't know what to say really. That's just odd.

Trust me, no one in the world was catching that 320d in the GT86 I had. The 320D could have been 220bhp with a remap, the GT86 felt more like 150bhp.

If you think the GT86 is fast enough for a sports car then good for you. Other manufacturers have no problem serving one model to more than one target market, I don't understand why Toyota/Subaru can't.

I never for one moment said that it should come with a Turbo/Supercharger, my point is it COULD

The GT86 owners are more defensive and biased than TVR owners

[LordGrover]

Tuvra said:

Varn said:

For the plebs there's always something like a Focus RS.

Turning to insults because someone has different tastes is pathetic to be honest.

I had a GT86 for a month and couldn't wait to give it back. Dreadfully, dreadfully slow thing. I literally laughed out loud watching a 320D monstering me on twisty roads once, to make it worse he was actually slowing down to let me catch up and then doing it all over again. In fairness it may have been remapped
[snip]

Probably says more about your driving skills than the car's performance.
I'm coming up to four years ownership. Clearly, traffic light GP and motorway one-upmanship aside, very few cars have been much faster on a proper, fun drive on decent roads - and I'm not claiming to be a driving god. It's balanced, predictable and fun.

[GregK2]

Recently been finding myself really wanting one of these. Hopefully this new model drives used prices down further

[LordGrover]

Tuvra said:

Trust me, no one in the world was catching that 320d in the GT86 I had. The 320D could have been 220bhp with a remap, the GT86 felt more like 150bhp.

If you think the GT86 is fast enough for a sports car then good for you. Other manufacturers have no problem serving one model to more than one target market, I don't understand why Toyota/Subaru can't.

I never for one moment said that it should come with a Turbo/Supercharger, my point is it COULD

The GT86 owners are more defensive and biased than TVR owners

Ex-TVR owner here - GT86 is quicker point-to-point than the Griff ever was (in my hands).

[Ultrafunkula]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

That is a very useful gain! What bits do Cosworth replace?

It's a few bits but the price seems reasonable, here;

http://www.cosworth.com/products/power-packages/fa...

[Guvernator]

Ultrafunkula said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

That is a very useful gain! What bits do Cosworth replace?

It's a few bits but the price seems reasonable, here;

http://www.cosworth.com/products/power-packages/fa...

I'm not an expert but looking at the power graphs, it looks like even the stage 1.3 upgrade still has that awful dip at 3500rpm, just what is the deal with that? The only way to get rid of it seems to be to go the full stage 2 supercharged route which sort of defeats the object IMO.

[Conscript]

Tuvra said:

The GT86 owners are more defensive and biased than TVR owners

Hmm. I hate to be regarded like that to be honest. I'm very aware of the cars limitations, but I love the way it looks and handles, and haven't found it's modest power an issue for the sort of driving I do and enjoy. I hope I don't come across as biased, but the car does attract some very harsh criticism on this forum and I just don't think it's fully deserved when you take the whole package into account, rather than just it's power output. To each his own,I guess.

Edited by Conscript on Friday 8th July 15:14

[aspen]

Who cares if a diesel BMW is faster? Why is everyone always comparing themselves to others? I couldn't care less if someone else has a faster car than me. I'm too busy having fun driving my own car.

I agree about it not sounding that great but I still love driving mine and I'm keeping it for the foreseeable future. Im interested in trying the new car when it arrives but I can't imagine I'd notice enough of a difference for it to worth getting.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Guvernator said:

Ultrafunkula said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

That is a very useful gain! What bits do Cosworth replace?

It's a few bits but the price seems reasonable, here;

http://www.cosworth.com/products/power-packages/fa...

I'm not an expert but looking at the power graphs, it looks like even the stage 1.3 upgrade still has that awful dip at 3500rpm, just what is the deal with that? The only way to get rid of it seems to be to go the full stage 2 supercharged route which sort of defeats the object IMO.

Does the 86 have a variable geometry intake? Doesn't seem to be exhaust header & system related as the clip I linked earlier demonstrated.

Now we know why Subaru turboed that engine originally

[trashy]

GT86 threads seem to attract posters akin to Leave/Remain extremists.

GT86 hater: your car is too slow
GT86 fan: learn to drive

[Tuvra]

LordGrover said:

Probably says more about your driving skills than the car's performance.
I'm coming up to four years ownership. Clearly, traffic light GP and motorway one-upmanship aside, very few cars have been much faster on a proper, fun drive on decent roads - and I'm not claiming to be a driving god. It's balanced, predictable and fun.

Your not? Your reminding me of that time 300bhp/tonne tried convincing us that he kept up with a Tuscan in a Smart Car

Genuinely, the GT86 was way, way out of its depth....

Conscript said:

Hmm. I hate to be regarded like that to be honest. I'm very aware of the cars limitations, but I love the way it looks and handles, and haven't found it's modest power an issue for the sort of driving I do and enjoy. I hope I don't come across as biased, but the car does attract some very harsh criticism on this forum and I just don't think it's fully deserved when you take the whole package into account, rather than just it's power output. To each his own,I guess.

Like I keep saying, I don't think the GT86 should be replaced by an unnaturally aspirated car, I think it would be a great car that could tick a lot of boxes for other people if it was offered in addition. In a way I am kind of paying the car a compliment by stating that more power could make it a great car, power is relatively easy to achieve! It just baffles me (and obviously others) why Toyota haven't added a "halo GT86" model car with some kind of blower.

[underphil]

Guvernator said:

I'm not an expert but looking at the power graphs, it looks like even the stage 1.3 upgrade still has that awful dip at 3500rpm, just what is the deal with that? The only way to get rid of it seems to be to go the full stage 2 supercharged route which sort of defeats the object IMO.

the Cosworth kit uses a EL manifold, so doesn't get rid of the torque dip, just moves it down the rev range a bit. Main problem with stage 1.3 is that it costs over 4 grand!!

You can get a UEL manifold and remap for about a grand which will get rid of the torque dip, and will add 5-10% extra to the power curve from 3.5k rpm

When I had mine, if I kept the engine on the boil it felt plenty quick when pushing it, just felt a bit gutless when mooching around

[ZesPak]

Some of the most fun I've had on 4 wheels is in this :


It's not clever, it's not practical, it's not pretty, not comfortable, not even capable off road and a 1.4 Polo will murder it in terms of speed.

But get in one and you'll have the biggest grin locked on your face.

People moaning that they are unable to follow a 3 series in this car just don't get it. It's sad but instead of generating their own personal fun it seems to have fun they need to one up the Jones'.

[Gary C]

it's strange to criticise a car for not being as powerful as others. There will always be a more powerful car about, and pissing contests are for kids.

However, the criticism of how it feels is more justified and it mainly seems to be due to that torque dip. What were Toyota thinking.

I've had a mk1 mr2 which had bugger all torque and needed to be thrashed, and that's how you drove it, had an rx8, even less torque and even more thrashing, great

But the torque curve of the 86' seems to be a mistake that is spoiling the character of the car for some. Not a real problem for me, I would just thrash it

My 3.2 carrera has a very noticeable increase in torque at about 4K and really comes alive, great. What it doesn't have is a big torque dip that makes it feel weak.

Anyway, once I don't need my 1.0 polo for the kids to learn, a gt86 will replace it (unless another n/a coupe' is released in the meantime).

Edited by Gary C on Friday 8th July 16:08