RE: Skoda Superb 280

[kambites]

Bladedancer said:

I wouldn't be able to bring myself to take 40 to 60 percent value hit in the first two to three years, that's the first problem.
Second problem is that is that they want 35k+ for a Skoda.

In other words your problem is badge snobbery, both in others and yourself.

[Bladedancer]

motoroller said:

The Superb is in a league with LWB luxury cars for rear space.

No wonder so many of them are taxis.

[legless]

Bladedancer said:

VW and Seat have 300 and 280 stock from that engine so you'll get it. Basic Revo remap for 280 bhp version sees I think 320 bhp.
The problem is only the 230 bhp version of the VRS have VAG's magic diff, so the question is - how will your Skoda handle and drive with 300 hp through the front wheels?
I'd hazard an guess somewhere in the realms of "now very well".

The 280 and 300ps variants of the engine are mechanically different to the 220/230ps units - a larger turbo, different cylinder head material, different exhaust valves and camshafts, pistons and injectors are the main differences.

Edited by legless on Wednesday 13th July 16:06

[lord trumpton]

legless said:

Bladedancer said:

VW and Seat have 300 and 280 stock from that engine so you'll get it. Basic Revo remap for 280 bhp version sees I think 320 bhp.
The problem is only the 230 bhp version of the VRS have VAG's magic diff, so the question is - how will your Skoda handle and drive with 300 hp through the front wheels?
I'd hazard an guess somewhere in the realms of "now very well".

The 280 and 300ps variants of the engine are mechanically different to the 220/230ps units - a larger turbo, different cylinder head material, different exhaust valves and camshafts, pistons and injectors are the main differences.

Edited by legless on Wednesday 13th July 16:06

The 230 vrs remaps to 315 with APR apparently; anything beyond is K04 turbo

Id say 300 hp in a FWD family wagon is ample

[micloi]

lord trumpton said:

The 230 vrs remaps to 315 with APR apparently; anything beyond is K04 turbo

Id say 300 hp in a FWD family wagon is ample

The Superb remaps to 370 Stage 1 and 385-ish stage 2 which it handles well with the Haldex 4WD

[blearyeyedboy]

Bladedancer said:

I wouldn't be able to bring myself to take 40 to 60 percent value hit in the first two to three years, that's the first problem.
Second problem is that is that they want 35k+ for a Skoda.

Me neither (though the badge bit wouldn't bother me at all). And neither will any but the very dedicated. Hats off to them but it's a vicious cycle.... the Market wants BMWs, Audis and Mercedes', residuals are weak with weak badges, no one can launch cars with the "wrong badge"... and even the open minded won't buy them because depreciation will be awful.

It's a shame really. If this had an Audi badge people would be singing its praises to the nth degree.

[HMRC]

I've owned one of these since December and found it to be great fun. The whole appeal to me is the fact that nobody seems to know about them. The list of stuff I've humbled at the lights is endless but includes:

- Various Golf GTIs
- Focus ST - old and new
- Corsa VXR
- WRX STI (Old shape)
- 996 911 Carrera 4S
- SL55 AMG

No doubt someone will point out that some of these have a quicker 0-60 time so weren't trying.. I will say that all of them certainly sounded like they were trying...

Other than this the car is extremely practical, comfortable and full of useful features that Skoda include. The mpg isn;t as good as I hoped averaging 25 over the 9000 miles I've done. Also as someone else has pointed out the throttle seems to be connected to the engine by blue-tack given the response time.

As regards depreciation I'll see whats left of my 30k in 3 years time (I may end up running it into the ground) .... In the meantime I'll carry on enjoying the launch control (Yes they have that as well)..

[rainmakerraw]

HMRC said:

I've owned one of these since December and found it to be great fun. The whole appeal to me is the fact that nobody seems to know about them. The list of stuff I've humbled at the lights is endless but includes:

- Various Golf GTIs
- Focus ST - old and new
- Corsa VXR
- WRX STI (Old shape)
- 996 911 Carrera 4S
- SL55 AMG

No doubt someone will point out that some of these have a quicker 0-60 time so weren't trying.. I will say that all of them certainly sounded like they were trying...

Other than this the car is extremely practical, comfortable and full of useful features that Skoda include. The mpg isn;t as good as I hoped averaging 25 over the 9000 miles I've done. Also as someone else has pointed out the throttle seems to be connected to the engine by blue-tack given the response time.

As regards depreciation I'll see whats left of my 30k in 3 years time (I may end up running it into the ground) .... In the meantime I'll carry on enjoying the launch control (Yes they have that as well)..

RaceChips Response Control pedal box. Seriously. Just plugs into the accelerator, doesn't affect the ECU or engine, undetectable for warranty purposes, and it absolutely transforms the car. Best €165 you'll ever spend. Everyone on Briskoda who's tried it agrees (are you on there?). If you aren't already, run it on 99 RON fuel (so V-Power or Momentum 99). It makes a fair difference to economy as well as the power delivery, as the car is mapped for 98 RON and above.

Edited by rainmakerraw on Thursday 14th July 00:31

[lord trumpton]

liner33 said:

Kolbenkopp said:

Interestingly, looks like they have some headroom with the E888. They are running that thing stock with 220 (GTI, Octavia) to 290+ (Leon, Golf R) PS and some high profile German tuning shops (including Abt, pretty close to VAG) list possible gains between 50 and 70 PS and roughly 430 Nm optimized.

It's just software as well. Assume since it has direct injection there is enough leeway with the stock stuff for getting fuel into it. 98 octane maps though.

But not sure I would bother on the Superb. It's not a sports car, does not want to be one, already has enough power as is. More fun/appropriate to turn a modest VRs Octi or Leon into something a bit quicker...

I'm quite a fan of the engine myself I have one in my DD VRS Octavia , its quiet and torquey and still delivers good economy , its entertaining enough when pushed, of course noise is not high on the manufacturers agenda seeing that its a family car

I dyno'ed my stock VRS (220) on a Dyno Dynamics dyno and it made 242hp I'm expecting north of 300 after a remap

I can believe that.

Up until recently my daily was a remapped ed30 with around 300hp. I have just purchased a new vRS 230 and given it being new 'only' 230 and heavier I expected I'd be after a remap pretty soon. Quite the opposite; it's really pokey and more than enough for a family car with fun potential when I'm on my own and conditions allow. Feels like a lot more than 230

[kambites]

Is the mk3 VRS heavier than the ED30?

[motoroller]

Bladedancer said:

No wonder so many of them are taxis.

Comparison of XJ LWB
http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.u...

to the Superb
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/indian-c...

I'm not saying they're comparable cars but the room in the back is definitely comparable.

[micloi]

0-100 in 5.4s for the Superb 280 using a VBOX, a pretty fast Taxi

https://youtu.be/T6XuisirT7I?t=613

I know these are not directly comparable as they were on a different place and time but can give a rough idea of how nice the 280 is standard:

Same guy getting a 4.9s with a Superb II tsi modified to 350hp

https://youtu.be/n_k6GXZw97A?t=619

And 4.5s with a Golf R modified to 380hp

https://youtu.be/pZTlz19xCUM?t=620

And, finally, 4.7s with an RS4 Avant:

https://youtu.be/Isjf8Ft7xjU?t=673

[Glasgowrob]

now if only skoda can slip that 313bhp 3.0 diesel lump under the bonnet

stunning car and top of the list to replace my mk5 Mondy

[wile7]

blearyeyedboy said:

Me neither (though the badge bit wouldn't bother me at all). And neither will any but the very dedicated. Hats off to them but it's a vicious cycle.... the Market wants BMWs, Audis and Mercedes', residuals are weak with weak badges, no one can launch cars with the "wrong badge"... and even the open minded won't buy them because depreciation will be awful.

It's a shame really. If this had an Audi badge people would be singing its praises to the nth degree.

I love my 3.6 Superb estate (bought used) and will probably go for a used 280 estate in a couple of years. The fact that it was a Skoda did not bother me whatsoever. Actually, the fact that it was not an Audi, VW or BMW was a big draw to me - I like the inverse badge snobbery and having test driven a few Audi, VW and BMW when looking it was a no brainier. Interior quality aside (and the Skoda certainly is not bad but you can see where costs are cut...) the difference in quality of drive was certainly not worth the difference in purchase price (Ive never bought new but the difference there is even more eye watering).

In Switzerland, my 3.6 was almost £60k new.....fully loaded but even so....that's a lot for a Skoda. Then again, when the VW phaeton came out folks eyes watered at the price of the top end models...and it was a humble VW and probably why it did not do well (whilst the Bentley sold well by comparison...).

Funnily enough, the depreciation on top end Audi, VW and BMW models seems to be decidedly more in the early months than top end Superbs when you factor in original purchase cost new. If it's your cup of tea, a used diesel is a good deal as used diesel prices begin to slide a bit - only because petrol engines are becoming so much better regarding economy and emissions.

All that said, a quick, comfortable petrol engined 'sleeper' with a Skoda badge appeals to my sense of fun. I only wish that they had dropped the VAG V8 or V10 in after the 3.6 engine was laid to rest at Skoda (although it continues in Porsche Cayenne form I believe....so the 3.6 lump can't be that bad).

[kmpowell]

I accidentally stumbled into this thread yesterday evening, and it has got me VERY curious indeed. So much so I've just got back from my local Skoda dealer where I've been investigating properly.

We've just had a second child, so the RS4 is being chopped in ASAP for something with more space to carry the two kids, buggies and our biggish dog. Believe it or not the A6/RS6 doesn't offer that much more room than an A4/RS4, so with us wanting 'new' the only viable alternatives so far have been a Passat Bi240 or a Q7 272, both of which have dullish derv engines only. I ideally want something with Petrol (MPG and tax etc doesn't bother me).

Anyway, in the showroom this afternoon was a new generation Superb Estate SE Business with leather and 280 spec....

Interior - first things first, the interior of this new Superb is magnificent, honestly! If you took away the Skoda badge, you would think you were sat in an Audi. Every fixture and fitting feels solid, the leather feels premium, and overall it feels much better than my RS4 and other half's 16 plate MK 7 Golf. Skoda have come a long long long way in the past 24mths, that was the biggest surprise for me.

Space - cavernous is the only word I can use. Acres more boot space than an A6, and more than the Passat which was the biggest outside of the E-Class hearse. Rear leg-room is monstrous, even with the driver seat right back. All in all I would suggest it offers the same sort of space as a Q7, just distributed differently.

Looks - the aforementioned Sports-Line isn't available to order until the end of this month (see below for details and pics), so details are sparce, but overall the new Superb is a handsome unit. Modern touches and angles give it a sharp attention to detail look that seems to get lost in pictures. Rear lights for example have a mix of see-through and angles.

Drive - No idea, they didn't have a 280 I could drive, so I've asked them to get a 280 for me to test drive, before I commit. My only worry here is the 6sp DSG rather than 7sp. A car like this is used for long jouneys, so that extra gear on the motorway might be missed. I've driven a G7R, and it's in no way comparable to the RS4, but it's more than adequate and fun.

Sport-Line trim - For those interested, the SL isn't available to order yet, so there's no brochure or pricing, only the following info on their system. Standard Kit: Bi-Xenons, Columbus Nav & WiFi, Rear parking sensors, Drive Mode Select, Dual Zone Climate, KESSY keyless, Cruise, 19" alloys, sunset glass, three spoke leather sports steering wheel, alcantara sports seats, XDS differential lock, LED ambient lighting package. Colours will be: Moon White, Quartz Grey, business Grey, Brilliant Silver, Black Magic, Corrida Red and Dragon Green (the VRs colour).

If I go for one it'll defo be in Sport-Line trim. Some pics of the Sport-Line estate which I found whilst browsing last night...









Overall - this is shaping up to be an absolute bargain. Golf 7R performance in a very large family estate is not something to be sniffed at. I'll update this thread once I've driven one etc.

Edited by kmpowell on Friday 22 July 18:29

[Narcisus]

Any specific questions then ask away ! I'm not sure what you mean about Se and 280 spec...

The 280 power plant is available in L&K and SEL trim levels.

[lord trumpton]

With regard to quality then I concur

I bought a Golf R 12 months ago - it was returned the day after due to poor paintwork. They allowed me to pick on from the compound around the rear of the dealership - still in delivery stickers.

Although the paint was perfect, after getting it home I noticed that the passenger front door required a bit more effort to close than the rest. Once I started looking it was poorly aligned.

I got rid after 2 months.

Anyway I have recently bought a VRS Combi 230 and the car is absolutely perfect - not a problem at all in any area. The Skoda although owned by VAG is still built in the Ceczh republic and in my experience are far better built, despite the same manufacturing processes and QA procedures.

I really think Skoda are top of their game at the moment. Really great value.

I can't understand why anyone would be put off by the 'Skoda' image thing.

[kmpowell]

Narcisus said:

Any specific questions then ask away ! I'm not sure what you mean about Se and 280 spec...

The 280 power plant is available in L&K and SEL trim levels.

I meant it was an SE L Executive with 280 4x4 spec engine.

[rainmakerraw]

kmpowell said:

...My only worry here is the 6sp DSG rather than 7sp. A car like this is used for long jouneys, so that extra gear on the motorway might be missed.

Skoda only have access to the wet clutch 6 speed DSG and dry clutch 7 speed (for lower powered engines). I imagine you might have been referencing Audi's wet 7 speed, as the lesser dry 7 is not only unsuited to the power train of the 280 but less refined than the wet 6. As I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, despite having the same wet 6 box the 280 has shorter gearing than the 220 to make it sportier. It does sit higher on the rev range as a consequence. My 220 hovers around 1,800rpm at 70mph in top, and I believe the 280 is closer to 2,500rpm off the top of my head. It still returns decent economy for what it is though. Have a read of the 280ps thread on Briskoda for a lot more info. One of the members there (BillyJim) has just completed his latest cross-continental jaunt in his 280 and returned mid-30s MPG even with a lot of spirited autobahn runs. They definitely appreciate 99 RON fuel (they're mapped to 98) and like all higher powered VAG units will produce more power, much better low down torque and better economy on the stuff. It pays for itself.

I love my 220. It - and the 280 - just ideally need a pedal box to tighten the response as the factory map is pretty lax. It's night and day difference, and really brings the car alive (again, discussion on the Briskoda thread if you care to read it).

[Narcisus]

rainmakerraw said:

Skoda only have access to the wet clutch 6 speed DSG and dry clutch 7 speed (for lower powered engines). I imagine you might have been referencing Audi's wet 7 speed, as the lesser dry 7 is not only unsuited to the power train of the 280 but less refined than the wet 6. As I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, despite having the same wet 6 box the 280 has shorter gearing than the 220 to make it sportier. It does sit higher on the rev range as a consequence. My 220 hovers around 1,800rpm at 70mph in top, and I believe the 280 is closer to 2,500rpm off the top of my head. It still returns decent economy for what it is though. Have a read of the 280ps thread on Briskoda for a lot more info. One of the members there (BillyJim) has just completed his latest cross-continental jaunt in his 280 and returned mid-30s MPG even with a lot of spirited autobahn runs. They definitely appreciate 99 RON fuel (they're mapped to 98) and like all higher powered VAG units will produce more power, much better low down torque and better economy on the stuff. It pays for itself.

I love my 220. It - and the 280 - just ideally need a pedal box to tighten the response as the factory map is pretty lax. It's night and day difference, and really brings the car alive (again, discussion on the Briskoda thread if you care to read it).

A gnats over 2k at 60...