Best Lease Car Deals Available? (Vol 3)

Best Lease Car Deals Available? (Vol 3)

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

talksthetorque

10,815 posts

134 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Zoon said:
Yes with some companies, VWFS specifically asked for proof of mileage allowance on company letterhead when the very good Golf R deals were out.

Not sure how BMW work theirs though.
Some companies ask for business mileage proof for PERSONALS deals. Arval has been mentioned previously.

As an employee with a personal allowance and mileage from your employer you cannot.
You need to have a business to put the business deal through. The only exception I have found to this is where your employer guarantors your deal.

Dimebars

881 posts

93 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
jrinns said:
Fidgits said:
Does that mean if I get a car allowance and mileage I can get business leases?
Doubt it, the below is usually the case.

You can qualify for business car leasing if you come under one of the following classifications - limited company, partnership, sole trader or public company. There are various advantages and tax implications which are beneficial including VAT reclamation, increased return on investment (ROI) and better cash flow management. Business leasing is more suited to established companies, however new companies can still apply if they have at least 3 months' bank statements and are willing to accept amended contract terms.

personal car leasing is the best option for employed individuals and sole-traders who aren’t VAT registered. Prices for personal deals are quoted with tax included as standard as it cannot be claimed back. One of the main benefits of personal leasing is that the credit check is done against a single individual and not an organisation. This allows business owners who have not been trading for long to still obtain a car lease.
Depends what you mean by "business" lease. If you're in receipt of car allowance then you can qualify for a business lease and just pay the rate plus VAT with most suppliers/finance companies

If you mean can I get the rate excluding VAT then the answer is no

Dimebars

881 posts

93 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Plus most personal deals are just the business rate plus VAT or will be advertised as "no personal uplift" or similar.

There are some exceptions as have already been stated here - BMW/Alphabet for one

Broccers

3,236 posts

252 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
So any decent deals out there - maybe take the discussion of the ins and outs somewhere else?

I'd like to see some 140i deals please.

mikeN54

607 posts

180 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Even if you are a VAT registered business taking a business lease you still have to pay the VAT each month on your payments, it's a myth that "businesses don't pay VAT".

Businesses pay VAT on purchases just the same as anybody else. The only difference being they may be able to reclaim some of that VAT back later on during their VAT return process, but they still have to pay it in the first place.



beeej

1,400 posts

192 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Saw this advertised in the paper today. It's the worst PCH I've ever seen:

Golf 1.4 TSI R-line
£199pm
Initial rental £8,211

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/buying-guide/offers/g...

PCP in everything but name. Naughty naughty sales drones.

Zoon

6,654 posts

120 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
beeej said:
Saw this advertised in the paper today. It's the worst PCH I've ever seen:

Golf 1.4 TSI R-line
£199pm
Initial rental £8,211

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/buying-guide/offers/g...

PCP in everything but name. Naughty naughty sales drones.
Obscene

Dimebars

881 posts

93 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
beeej said:
Saw this advertised in the paper today. It's the worst PCH I've ever seen:

Golf 1.4 TSI R-line
£199pm
Initial rental £8,211

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/buying-guide/offers/g...

PCP in everything but name. Naughty naughty sales drones.
Got to recoup the money they've blown on cheap "R" deals somehow I guess

wemorgan

3,578 posts

177 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Broccers said:
So any decent deals out there - maybe take the discussion of the ins and outs somewhere else?

I'd like to see some 140i deals please.
Have you tried looking yourself via the usual websites? What's the best you've seen?

ArsE92

21,007 posts

186 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
I love this thread but it doesn't half bring out the b itches hehe

Broccers

3,236 posts

252 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
wemorgan said:
Broccers said:
So any decent deals out there - maybe take the discussion of the ins and outs somewhere else?

I'd like to see some 140i deals please.
Have you tried looking yourself via the usual websites? What's the best you've seen?
Yes - and not very good compared to my current golf lease.

Would be the ideal replacement I think.

Barney2201

48 posts

105 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
wemorgan said:
Were there not some specific issues with that case:

"14. The Company paid the monthly leasing instalment each month charging the Directors for the amounts of the instalment exclusive of VAT by way of debits to their loan accounts i.e. directors’ current accounts.

15.The Company reclaimed one half of the VAT input tax charged by Daimler – the vehicles being subject to a 50% input tax restriction as they were made available for private use. Normally VAT on a car is not allowed to be set off against output tax but where a car is leased a 50% claim is allowed if it is used for business purposes (on the assumption that the car will also be used for private use).

17. The car leases and payments were not reflected in the Company accounts but were in the Company’s accounting records."

They may have paid for the cars personally, but sill claimed for the expense through the company.
The findings, from 34. on, read clearly enough. Especially


47. The Tribunal found that even if there had been such an agreement, the legislation was not concerned with agency or any other law. It stipulated the correct tax treatment to be used when an employer provides a car for its employees. The contract was in the name of the Company, the legislation was satisfied and so a benefit arose.
So if the company cliams back full VAT on the lease then charges on the full lease cost to myself (company director) plus VAT and I pay the company the full amount inc VAT per month, I pay services costs and insurance on the vehicle it's still classified as a company car???? How can there be a BIK when no BIK is generated, the only benefit I can see is using the company to access deals which are not available to private customers. I (like many others) am looking at the BMW 640 GC deals and trying to work out how I can take the deal without getting hammered for £9K a year BIK....

Fast Bug

11,597 posts

160 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
mikeN54 said:
"the tossers in corporate"
Oi that's me that is laugh

MattLeBlank

40 posts

93 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Barney2201 said:
So if the company cliams back full VAT on the lease then charges on the full lease cost to myself (company director) plus VAT and I pay the company the full amount inc VAT per month, I pay services costs and insurance on the vehicle it's still classified as a company car???? How can there be a BIK when no BIK is generated, the only benefit I can see is using the company to access deals which are not available to private customers. I (like many others) am looking at the BMW 640 GC deals and trying to work out how I can take the deal without getting hammered for £9K a year BIK....
A lot will depend on your accountant, who may be reluctant to sign off accounts they are unhappy with.

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
MattLeBlank said:
Barney2201 said:
So if the company cliams back full VAT on the lease then charges on the full lease cost to myself (company director) plus VAT and I pay the company the full amount inc VAT per month, I pay services costs and insurance on the vehicle it's still classified as a company car????
A lot will depend on your accountant, who may be reluctant to sign off accounts they are unhappy with.
This just seems to be a minefield. There's another related case (Apollo Fuels) where HMRC lost, but in that case the cars were actually owned by the company and leased to employees. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2016/157.h...

I wouldn't risk it unless the idea of costly legal battles with HMRC and the prospect of a £30K tax bill (a la Stamford case) a few years down the line appeals to you.

mikeN54

607 posts

180 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Barney2201 said:
I (like many others) am looking at the BMW 640 GC deals and trying to work out how I can take the deal without getting hammered for £9K a year BIK....
Try £36K BIK on a M6 GC!

We did it a slightly different way a few year back, ahem. Instigated the business contract hire using our business details but before the first payment went out changed the direct debit details to a personal bank account.

Then there is no trace of the lease on the company accounts to worry about.

Edited by mikeN54 on Tuesday 26th July 12:32

Sheepshanks

32,528 posts

118 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
mikeN54 said:
Then there is no trace of the lease on the company accounts whatsoever, so no need to cook books or justify it to accountants or anything else.
I saw the 'ahem' so you obviously know that's dodgy. I wonder if HMRC get a list of vehicles leased to companies? scratchchin

It's also a bit iffy on insurance - I guess you did it in your name but it should have been a commercial policy.

mikeN54

607 posts

180 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Barney2201 said:
So if the company cliams back full VAT on the lease then charges on the full lease cost to myself (company director) plus VAT and I pay the company the full amount inc VAT per month, I pay services costs and insurance on the vehicle it's still classified as a company car????
Yes, it should be declared as a benefit on your P11D as it is being provided by your employer. But the deemed benefit would have your voluntary contributions and other payments (servicing etc) deducted from it during the calculation process.

But because BIK is based on unrealisticly high list prices, there may still be residual benefit even after your contributions are deducted.

Does that make sense?

mikeN54

607 posts

180 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
It's also a bit iffy on insurance - I guess you did it in your name but it should have been a commercial policy.
Only commercial class vehicles need a commercial policy for business use.

For a passenger car, regardless of owner, any personal retail insurance with business use and the legal owner & V5 address correctly declared is 100% fine.


Carl_Manchester

12,102 posts

261 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all

Deal's only please. Take all the guff outside of the thread (5+ pages of it now).
TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED