Best Lease Car Deals Available? (Vol 3)

Best Lease Car Deals Available? (Vol 3)

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jrinns

369 posts

182 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
That's a polite get lost from the dealer!

PCH is for anyone and you are not usually asked about car allowance etc.

Nickp82

3,165 posts

92 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
jrinns said:
That's a polite get lost from the dealer!

PCH is for anyone and you are not usually asked about car allowance etc.
That's not strictly true - manufacturers want as much retail business going through their dealerships as this is far more profitable than fleet deals (PCH qualifies as fleet as it uses fleet terms). For this reason some manufacturers will restrict their PCH offerings to ensure any deals of this type are incremental rather than replacing retail deals hence the restrictions mentioned such as having car allowance etc.

mc_blue

2,548 posts

217 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Hi guys,

Looking for an Amarok Highline with auto - any good deals out there?

Fidgits

17,202 posts

228 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Zoon said:
A2Z said:
Sorry to interject with a basic question but I am looking at a Personal Contract Hire for the first time.

Asked for a quote from a local dealer via contracthireandleasing.com and they called me saying that it's only for people in receipt of car allowance or business mileage from their employer.

Is this correct or just this particular dealer? We will be private retail by the way.

Thanks.
They will be trying to get you on a business deal rather than a personal one.
There are personal deals out there, just keep looking.
Does that mean if I get a car allowance and mileage I can get business leases?

wemorgan

3,578 posts

177 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
http://www.yes-lease.co.uk/business-lease-cars/mer...

Mercedes-Benz E Class Diesel Cabriolet E220d AMG Line Edition 2dr 7G-Tronic Business contract hire

1+23
15k
£417+vat


http://www.yes-lease.co.uk/business-lease-cars/mer...

Mercedes-Benz E Class Diesel Cabriolet E350d AMG Line Edition 2dr 9G-Tronic Business contract hire

1+23
15k
£467+vat

jrinns

369 posts

182 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Nickp82 said:
That's not strictly true - manufacturers want as much retail business going through their dealerships as this is far more profitable than fleet deals (PCH qualifies as fleet as it uses fleet terms). For this reason some manufacturers will restrict their PCH offerings to ensure any deals of this type are incremental rather than replacing retail deals hence the restrictions mentioned such as having car allowance etc.
So it's still a get lost with the great deal you found on piston heads or the Internet . Let us sell you a PCP deal which is going to be more expensive and make us more profit rather than PCH, it's the same steer in my eyes. The sales man is spouting rubbish so he can push a PCP deal.

Edited by jrinns on Monday 25th July 20:52

jrinns

369 posts

182 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Fidgits said:
Does that mean if I get a car allowance and mileage I can get business leases?
Doubt it, the below is usually the case.

You can qualify for business car leasing if you come under one of the following classifications - limited company, partnership, sole trader or public company. There are various advantages and tax implications which are beneficial including VAT reclamation, increased return on investment (ROI) and better cash flow management. Business leasing is more suited to established companies, however new companies can still apply if they have at least 3 months' bank statements and are willing to accept amended contract terms.

personal car leasing is the best option for employed individuals and sole-traders who aren’t VAT registered. Prices for personal deals are quoted with tax included as standard as it cannot be claimed back. One of the main benefits of personal leasing is that the credit check is done against a single individual and not an organisation. This allows business owners who have not been trading for long to still obtain a car lease.


Fidgits

17,202 posts

228 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
jrinns said:
Fidgits said:
Does that mean if I get a car allowance and mileage I can get business leases?
Doubt it, the below is usually the case.

You can qualify for business car leasing if you come under one of the following classifications - limited company, partnership, sole trader or public company. There are various advantages and tax implications which are beneficial including VAT reclamation, increased return on investment (ROI) and better cash flow management. Business leasing is more suited to established companies, however new companies can still apply if they have at least 3 months' bank statements and are willing to accept amended contract terms.

personal car leasing is the best option for employed individuals and sole-traders who aren’t VAT registered. Prices for personal deals are quoted with tax included as standard as it cannot be claimed back. One of the main benefits of personal leasing is that the credit check is done against a single individual and not an organisation. This allows business owners who have not been trading for long to still obtain a car lease.
That's what I thought, it's why I was surprised at the dealer response

Fast Bug

11,597 posts

160 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
A2Z said:
Sorry to interject with a basic question but I am looking at a Personal Contract Hire for the first time.

Asked for a quote from a local dealer via contracthireandleasing.com and they called me saying that it's only for people in receipt of car allowance or business mileage from their employer.

Is this correct or just this particular dealer? We will be private retail by the way.

Thanks.
When I was selling Renault and Nissan this was the case with Arval for certain deals. You could get round it if your contract stats that any business miles you might do would be reimbursed. Most people have that written in there somewhere

jrinns said:
So it's still a get lost with the great deal you found on piston heads or the Internet . Let us sell you a PCP deal which is going to be more expensive and make us more profit rather than PCH, it's the same steer in my eyes. The sales man is spouting rubbish so he can push a PCP deal.

Edited by jrinns on Monday 25th July 20:52
Maybe not, see above

Fidgits said:
Does that mean if I get a car allowance and mileage I can get business leases?
Sadly not, as someone else has siad you usually need to be a company/sole trader and/or VAT registered and pay from a business bank account. Some people may try and fudge it through though

Edited by Fast Bug on Monday 25th July 21:02

Sheepshanks

32,529 posts

118 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Fidgits said:
That's what I thought, it's why I was surprised at the dealer response
What was the car? BMW, particularly, are noted for having business only deals with personal rates much higher than simply adding the VAT.

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
jrinns said:
personal car leasing is the best option for employed individuals and sole-traders who aren’t VAT registered. Prices for personal deals are quoted with tax included as standard as it cannot be claimed back.
I'd do the sums very carefully. If a car is provided to a director/employee, the tax is based on list price (and other things). Take a 5dr Golf R DSG : Company pays monthly of maybe £249 + VAT per month, but BIK is £761/month, so employee must pay an additional £305 tax every month!

A2Z

1,080 posts

225 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Fast Bug said:
Sadly not, as someone else has siad you usually need to be a company/sole trader and/or VAT registered and pay from a business bank account. Some people may try and fudge it through though

Edited by Fast Bug on Monday 25th July 21:02
Thanks Fast Bug

It's going to be my Wifes car and she is a teacher so car allowance etc doesn't apply. I had selected the "Private" option on the website when I was doing the search.

This was my first enquiry into this. I'll keep looking and will update with my results.

Zooom

134 posts

93 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
I'd do the sums very carefully. If a car is provided to a director/employee, the tax is based on list price (and other things). Take a 5dr Golf R DSG : Company pays monthly of maybe £249 + VAT per month, but BIK is £761/month, so employee must pay an additional £305 tax every month!
As a director I have a business only lease deal but personally reimburse the company in full for the costs. That way I can access the business only deals but pay for it like it's a personal lease without the additional tax.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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Zooom said:
As a director I have a business only lease deal but personally reimburse the company in full for the costs. That way I can access the business only deals but pay for it like it's a personal lease without the additional tax.
Be careful zooom

HMRC says that if the car is leased by the company, then it is a company car, even if the director does reimburse the payments in full personally

BIK is due to be paid. Moreover, the company is liable for Class 1A NICs on the benefit too.

The most relevant case (there are others) is 'Stanford'

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2010/TC004...

DSLiverpool

14,671 posts

201 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Zooom said:
As a director I have a business only lease deal but personally reimburse the company in full for the costs. That way I can access the business only deals but pay for it like it's a personal lease without the additional tax.
You need a new accountant or soon you may need a solicitor.

wemorgan

3,578 posts

177 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
Be careful zooom

HMRC says that if the car is leased by the company, then it is a company car, even if the director does reimburse the payments in full personally

BIK is due to be paid. Moreover, the company is liable for Class 1A NICs on the benefit too.

The most relevant case (there are others) is 'Stanford'

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2010/TC004...
Were there not some specific issues with that case:

"14. The Company paid the monthly leasing instalment each month charging the Directors for the amounts of the instalment exclusive of VAT by way of debits to their loan accounts i.e. directors’ current accounts.

15.The Company reclaimed one half of the VAT input tax charged by Daimler – the vehicles being subject to a 50% input tax restriction as they were made available for private use. Normally VAT on a car is not allowed to be set off against output tax but where a car is leased a 50% claim is allowed if it is used for business purposes (on the assumption that the car will also be used for private use).

17. The car leases and payments were not reflected in the Company accounts but were in the Company’s accounting records."

They may have paid for the cars personally, but sill claimed for the expense through the company.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
wemorgan said:
Were there not some specific issues with that case:

"14. The Company paid the monthly leasing instalment each month charging the Directors for the amounts of the instalment exclusive of VAT by way of debits to their loan accounts i.e. directors’ current accounts.

15.The Company reclaimed one half of the VAT input tax charged by Daimler – the vehicles being subject to a 50% input tax restriction as they were made available for private use. Normally VAT on a car is not allowed to be set off against output tax but where a car is leased a 50% claim is allowed if it is used for business purposes (on the assumption that the car will also be used for private use).

17. The car leases and payments were not reflected in the Company accounts but were in the Company’s accounting records."

They may have paid for the cars personally, but sill claimed for the expense through the company.
The findings, from 34. on, read clearly enough. Especially


47. The Tribunal found that even if there had been such an agreement, the legislation was not concerned with agency or any other law. It stipulated the correct tax treatment to be used when an employer provides a car for its employees. The contract was in the name of the Company, the legislation was satisfied and so a benefit arose.

mikeN54

607 posts

180 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Back onto them wanting some proof of mileage expenses payment etc, I found this before too.

When you walk into a Showroom you are talking to RETAIL sales staff that do HP, PCP etc.

But PCH/BCH are fleet / corporate sales products and as such the retail salesperson doesn't want to lose you to "the tossers in corporate".

Just don't bother with the showroom, make sure you just deal with corporate sales on the phone or email if they have the deal you're after. If they ask "do you claim business miles" say "yes" job done, they'll tick that box and move on.

Captain Answer

1,347 posts

186 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Zoon said:
They will be trying to get you on a business deal rather than a personal one.
There are personal deals out there, just keep looking.
Interesting, so can one get a business deal if you are employed and get allowance? Never knew that, thought it was personal only unless being registered to a company

Zoon

6,654 posts

120 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Captain Answer said:
Interesting, so can one get a business deal if you are employed and get allowance? Never knew that, thought it was personal only unless being registered to a company
Yes with some companies, VWFS specifically asked for proof of mileage allowance on company letterhead when the very good Golf R deals were out.

Not sure how BMW work theirs though.
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