The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XVIII)
Discussion
rejn said:
braddo said:
Silverstone (GP) is another track I need to try.
I was surprised how good it is. I used to love the old circuit. Fancy bringing the GT3 and I'll bring the Caterham some time? Last week was my first time on track for around 18 months (excluding a few laps in a VX220 at Brands one evening) and its reminded me how much fun it is so I'd be up for another day later this year!!
This morning I finally got to drive a couple of VW Golfs, and I wanted to share my thoughts. (sorry for long post).
My overall thoughts on both cars are that they’re great cars. It appears that VW Golfs are comfortable, with plenty of space and light inside the cars. The controls are well laid out, the seats and steering wheel adjust well to allow me to find a good seating position. The seats themselves are just the right size for me, too – not too slim, but with decent bolsters holding me in place. I know it’s a bit of a cliché, but everything really does feel well engineered and solid in a Golf.
On the downside, both of the cars I drove also have over-servo’d brakes and over-assisted steering for my tastes, but by the end of the test drives I'd just about got used to them.
Both cars I drove had DSG gearboxes, and I was surprised how good they are. Leave the gearbox in “D” and don’t touch the paddles, and the car is just like a normal automatic. The gear changes in this mode are far smoother than I expected – almost imperceptible gear changes are the norm. Hit the paddles, though, and you’re in charge. Standard gear changes are immediate and smooth, and hard to fault. But I did find that the gearbox liked to take control: after a few seconds in one gear it would sometimes revert back into “auto” mode and instantly change up a few gears into cruising model; similarly, it would also automatically change up a gear rather than running into the limiter – along one stretch on road, I was accelerating in 2nd gear, coming up to a corner so wanting to hold the gear, but the car automatically changed up a gear. The salesman suggested that if we’d changed some of the settings, then this could be changed.
The first car I drove was a Golf GTI, fitted with performance pack (so 230bhp, and with an LSD and bigger brakes) and DSG.
First impressions as you drive away in the GTI are that it’s nimble, and light on its toes, and this seems to persist, regardless of speed or type of road. It’s a really fun car to drive – it feels eager, and it changes direction quickly and easily. The suspension soaks up the bumps, but also doesn’t allow much roll. For an all-round sporty car, I think the set up is pretty impressive – and almost exactly where I’d like it. The car is rarely unsettled by bumps or camber, but it’s sufficiently tightly sprung to be chuckable into the corners.
I’m not sure how much the LSD came into play, but traction out of low speed corners is very impressive – it grips, turns and accelerates. If you floor the accelerator from a low speed in a straight line, you can feel the car struggle to get the power down a bit, but that’s not surprising and I guess the price to pay for the nimbleness of FWD only. I wasn’t able to push that hard on public roads, but cornering hard, you could sense that the car was starting to move towards understeering – a lift just tightened the line.
One thing I was really surprised about was the steering – yes, it’s a bit over-assisted, but there was much more feedback than I was expecting. Everything I’ve read about electric power steering seems to suggest that it takes away the feeling through the wheel, but this car felt like it was communicating well. It inspired confidence, and felt like it wanted me to push hard and explore the cars abilities. I didn’t get a chance to push to ten tenths so not sure how well it would communicate at the edge of grip, but compared to most modern cars I’ve driven recently, it was good steering.
Overall, I came away with a big grin on my face, and a sense that a GTI would be a playful car when you wanted it to, as well as a competent family transport.
It also felt like a manual GTI would be even more involving and fun, with the DSG gearbox not really suiting the character of the car.
The second car I drove was a Golf R (with DSG and a sports exhaust).
The Golf R feels quite different to the GTI. As I drove away from the forecourt at very low speed, it immediately felt like a bigger, heavier and more grown-up car. It felt a bit as if I’d jumped from a Golf into a physically bigger car. When you get to an open road, though, the power from the engine is awesome, and the drive and grip from the 4wd drive-train suits it well. I know this will sounds a bit ridiculous, but it felt like a mini RS4 or even a mini GTR. On twisty roads, you just point and shoot – the power kicks in, and you find yourself just blasting down roads at quite silly speeds without trying too hard. The electronics kicks in imperceptibly – at times the traction control light was flashing, but I just kept my foot to the floor, and the car just flew round the corners and onto the next straight. However, I didn’t find it anything like as much fun as the GTI. It’s hard to put my finger on exactly what is different – maybe the combination of more weight and 4wd results in less feedback through the steering, and more understeer. It’s clearly a massively competent car, but it felt to me like it was missing the playfulness that I’d been so happy to find in the GTI.
One other thing that I didn’t like about the R was the sports exhaust. The sports exhaust package includes sounds being piped into the speakers, which is really silly. Thankfully it’s easy to switch off, but the exhaust itself seemed a bit drony to me (maybe I’m getting old). The only thing I did like (and I’m not sure if this is an R thing, or a sports exhaust thing), is that the DSG gearbox made a fulfilling “whump” sound on the upshifts.
The DSG gearbox felt like it was a much better match to the R than the GTI, with immediate gear-changes matching well with the 4wd and massive power.
So I came away surprised at the differences between the two cars. They have different characters - and I'd sum it up as the GTI being the playful younger brother, and the R is the more competent grown-up one.
And I came away preferring a GTI. I’ve also read a review of the upcoming GTI Clubsport, which adds an extra 30bhp and a few other bits (more downforce without silly wings, more sporty suspension), and right now that’s the car I’m fancying most of all.
The trouble is, it looks like you can lease a Golf R for around £230 a month , where as GTI Clubsport is £300.
Decisions, decisions.
My overall thoughts on both cars are that they’re great cars. It appears that VW Golfs are comfortable, with plenty of space and light inside the cars. The controls are well laid out, the seats and steering wheel adjust well to allow me to find a good seating position. The seats themselves are just the right size for me, too – not too slim, but with decent bolsters holding me in place. I know it’s a bit of a cliché, but everything really does feel well engineered and solid in a Golf.
On the downside, both of the cars I drove also have over-servo’d brakes and over-assisted steering for my tastes, but by the end of the test drives I'd just about got used to them.
Both cars I drove had DSG gearboxes, and I was surprised how good they are. Leave the gearbox in “D” and don’t touch the paddles, and the car is just like a normal automatic. The gear changes in this mode are far smoother than I expected – almost imperceptible gear changes are the norm. Hit the paddles, though, and you’re in charge. Standard gear changes are immediate and smooth, and hard to fault. But I did find that the gearbox liked to take control: after a few seconds in one gear it would sometimes revert back into “auto” mode and instantly change up a few gears into cruising model; similarly, it would also automatically change up a gear rather than running into the limiter – along one stretch on road, I was accelerating in 2nd gear, coming up to a corner so wanting to hold the gear, but the car automatically changed up a gear. The salesman suggested that if we’d changed some of the settings, then this could be changed.
The first car I drove was a Golf GTI, fitted with performance pack (so 230bhp, and with an LSD and bigger brakes) and DSG.
First impressions as you drive away in the GTI are that it’s nimble, and light on its toes, and this seems to persist, regardless of speed or type of road. It’s a really fun car to drive – it feels eager, and it changes direction quickly and easily. The suspension soaks up the bumps, but also doesn’t allow much roll. For an all-round sporty car, I think the set up is pretty impressive – and almost exactly where I’d like it. The car is rarely unsettled by bumps or camber, but it’s sufficiently tightly sprung to be chuckable into the corners.
I’m not sure how much the LSD came into play, but traction out of low speed corners is very impressive – it grips, turns and accelerates. If you floor the accelerator from a low speed in a straight line, you can feel the car struggle to get the power down a bit, but that’s not surprising and I guess the price to pay for the nimbleness of FWD only. I wasn’t able to push that hard on public roads, but cornering hard, you could sense that the car was starting to move towards understeering – a lift just tightened the line.
One thing I was really surprised about was the steering – yes, it’s a bit over-assisted, but there was much more feedback than I was expecting. Everything I’ve read about electric power steering seems to suggest that it takes away the feeling through the wheel, but this car felt like it was communicating well. It inspired confidence, and felt like it wanted me to push hard and explore the cars abilities. I didn’t get a chance to push to ten tenths so not sure how well it would communicate at the edge of grip, but compared to most modern cars I’ve driven recently, it was good steering.
Overall, I came away with a big grin on my face, and a sense that a GTI would be a playful car when you wanted it to, as well as a competent family transport.
It also felt like a manual GTI would be even more involving and fun, with the DSG gearbox not really suiting the character of the car.
The second car I drove was a Golf R (with DSG and a sports exhaust).
The Golf R feels quite different to the GTI. As I drove away from the forecourt at very low speed, it immediately felt like a bigger, heavier and more grown-up car. It felt a bit as if I’d jumped from a Golf into a physically bigger car. When you get to an open road, though, the power from the engine is awesome, and the drive and grip from the 4wd drive-train suits it well. I know this will sounds a bit ridiculous, but it felt like a mini RS4 or even a mini GTR. On twisty roads, you just point and shoot – the power kicks in, and you find yourself just blasting down roads at quite silly speeds without trying too hard. The electronics kicks in imperceptibly – at times the traction control light was flashing, but I just kept my foot to the floor, and the car just flew round the corners and onto the next straight. However, I didn’t find it anything like as much fun as the GTI. It’s hard to put my finger on exactly what is different – maybe the combination of more weight and 4wd results in less feedback through the steering, and more understeer. It’s clearly a massively competent car, but it felt to me like it was missing the playfulness that I’d been so happy to find in the GTI.
One other thing that I didn’t like about the R was the sports exhaust. The sports exhaust package includes sounds being piped into the speakers, which is really silly. Thankfully it’s easy to switch off, but the exhaust itself seemed a bit drony to me (maybe I’m getting old). The only thing I did like (and I’m not sure if this is an R thing, or a sports exhaust thing), is that the DSG gearbox made a fulfilling “whump” sound on the upshifts.
The DSG gearbox felt like it was a much better match to the R than the GTI, with immediate gear-changes matching well with the 4wd and massive power.
So I came away surprised at the differences between the two cars. They have different characters - and I'd sum it up as the GTI being the playful younger brother, and the R is the more competent grown-up one.
And I came away preferring a GTI. I’ve also read a review of the upcoming GTI Clubsport, which adds an extra 30bhp and a few other bits (more downforce without silly wings, more sporty suspension), and right now that’s the car I’m fancying most of all.
The trouble is, it looks like you can lease a Golf R for around £230 a month , where as GTI Clubsport is £300.
Decisions, decisions.
What is the driving position like in a lot of modern hot hatches?
Going from the Boxster to the Clio inevitably feels high, the Clio always being known for its high driving position, but I got in my mate's S3 at the weekend and felt like I was sitting on top of the car. Granted I'm sure it would have gone lower but it'd have to be a hell of a lot to not just feel like you were sitting on it rather than in it.
Going from the Boxster to the Clio inevitably feels high, the Clio always being known for its high driving position, but I got in my mate's S3 at the weekend and felt like I was sitting on top of the car. Granted I'm sure it would have gone lower but it'd have to be a hell of a lot to not just feel like you were sitting on it rather than in it.
rejn said:
Interesting GTi vs R notes
Nice summary. It sounds like the GTi is the one if you also want to take it out at the weekend for a bit of a thrash, whereas the R is more the Mon-Fri daily driver and you jump in something else more fun on Saturdays thenPatrick Bateman said:
What is the driving position like in a lot of modern hot hatches?
Going from the Boxster to the Clio inevitably feels high, the Clio always being known for its high driving position, but I got in my mate's S3 at the weekend and felt like I was sitting on top of the car. Granted I'm sure it would have gone lower but it'd have to be a hell of a lot to not just feel like you were sitting on it rather than in it.
I've always found quick Renaults and Fords to have too high a seating position too, but the likes of MINIs and Golfs provide adjustment to drop them quite a bit lowerGoing from the Boxster to the Clio inevitably feels high, the Clio always being known for its high driving position, but I got in my mate's S3 at the weekend and felt like I was sitting on top of the car. Granted I'm sure it would have gone lower but it'd have to be a hell of a lot to not just feel like you were sitting on it rather than in it.
Thought I'd check in to thread. Last time I posted about acquiring an E34 540i.
Quick update, the gearbox spat it's dummy out a month or so ago, sourced a replacement, haven't had the time nor inclination to get it sorted. Was lucky I got the box I did though, bar the E34s stablemates, the 5hp30 is only found in the Silver Seraph, Arnage T and some DB7s...
Been using Mums 61 Plate Cooper and having a right hoot though.
Bye for now!
Quick update, the gearbox spat it's dummy out a month or so ago, sourced a replacement, haven't had the time nor inclination to get it sorted. Was lucky I got the box I did though, bar the E34s stablemates, the 5hp30 is only found in the Silver Seraph, Arnage T and some DB7s...
Been using Mums 61 Plate Cooper and having a right hoot though.
Bye for now!
Patrick Bateman said:
What is the driving position like in a lot of modern hot hatches?
Going from the Boxster to the Clio inevitably feels high, the Clio always being known for its high driving position, but I got in my mate's S3 at the weekend and felt like I was sitting on top of the car. Granted I'm sure it would have gone lower but it'd have to be a hell of a lot to not just feel like you were sitting on it rather than in it.
Seems fine in the Golf - I actually had to raise one of the seats from where it had previously been set to get a good driving position.Going from the Boxster to the Clio inevitably feels high, the Clio always being known for its high driving position, but I got in my mate's S3 at the weekend and felt like I was sitting on top of the car. Granted I'm sure it would have gone lower but it'd have to be a hell of a lot to not just feel like you were sitting on it rather than in it.
From a quick check, it seems like the seats go a long way down and a long way back! There's so much adjustment, I honestly think a 7 foot tall person could drive one ok.
Loplop said:
Thought I'd check in to thread. Last time I posted about acquiring an E34 540i.
Quick update, the gearbox spat it's dummy out a month or so ago, sourced a replacement, haven't had the time nor inclination to get it sorted. Was lucky I got the box I did though, bar the E34s stablemates, the 5hp30 is only found in the Silver Seraph, Arnage T and some DB7s...
Been using Mums 61 Plate Cooper and having a right hoot though.
Bye for now!
The 5HP30 is found across the BMW range of the time; the E32 V8's, the E31's and the V12 E38's, hope you get the 540 fixed though.Quick update, the gearbox spat it's dummy out a month or so ago, sourced a replacement, haven't had the time nor inclination to get it sorted. Was lucky I got the box I did though, bar the E34s stablemates, the 5hp30 is only found in the Silver Seraph, Arnage T and some DB7s...
Been using Mums 61 Plate Cooper and having a right hoot though.
Bye for now!
Edited by E24man on Tuesday 27th September 17:15
TheRocket said:
L100NYY said:
It was utter 7 perfection, attention to detail was fantastic.
Although our 917 was pretty good too
Anymore info on the 917, Original John Wyer Automotive Gulf car ? Although our 917 was pretty good too
Very sorted and sounds phenomenal!
Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 27th September 19:28
Talking of Porsches.......new Petrolicious video;
http://petrolicious.com/this-porsche-964-is-the-ev...
http://petrolicious.com/this-porsche-964-is-the-ev...
L100NYY said:
oh yes.Wibble McThuddington;
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Apart from the airbagged 'wheel. Obvs.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Apart from the airbagged 'wheel. Obvs.
L100NYY said:
Wibble McThuddington;
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Apart from the airbagged 'wheel. Obvs.
Well that's enough to make me consider homelessness.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Apart from the airbagged 'wheel. Obvs.
Crook said:
L100NYY said:
Wibble McThuddington;
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Apart from the airbagged 'wheel. Obvs.
Well that's enough to make me consider homelessness.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Apart from the airbagged 'wheel. Obvs.
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