The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T(Vol XVIII)
Discussion
Cheb - I love the 928 and particularly the manual GTS! Big fan since childhood, since before appreciating the 911 in fact 
Would include one in my fantasy garage but they are out of reach for decent examples and have potentially scary running costs for me.
moose - I'm inclined to agree, although I think "lesser" (known / desired etc.) models are being dragged up, at least in terms of asking prices. We also still have to allow for wealthy enthusiasts who are simply willing to pay what it costs to secure something they want beyond as an investment vehicle. Be interesting to see what the 928 in question makes, although I'd imagine nothing so daft as 911-shaped stuff (especially GT / special models). I mean nealry £300k for 993 GT2 is nuts and I love those. A 993 RS is one of my favourite 90s cars and those are bats
t insane too. No clue how 2.2 / 2.4s models are house-price cars either, lovely and authentically vintage though they may be. It's a frickin base model! You could get most of the experience spending less than half as much on a 964 / resto mod shirley?
Would include one in my fantasy garage but they are out of reach for decent examples and have potentially scary running costs for me.moose - I'm inclined to agree, although I think "lesser" (known / desired etc.) models are being dragged up, at least in terms of asking prices. We also still have to allow for wealthy enthusiasts who are simply willing to pay what it costs to secure something they want beyond as an investment vehicle. Be interesting to see what the 928 in question makes, although I'd imagine nothing so daft as 911-shaped stuff (especially GT / special models). I mean nealry £300k for 993 GT2 is nuts and I love those. A 993 RS is one of my favourite 90s cars and those are bats
t insane too. No clue how 2.2 / 2.4s models are house-price cars either, lovely and authentically vintage though they may be. It's a frickin base model! You could get most of the experience spending less than half as much on a 964 / resto mod shirley?
Diesel Meister said:
Cheb - I love the 928 and particularly the manual GTS! Big fan since childhood, since before appreciating the 911 in fact Would include one in my fantasy garage but they are out of reach for decent examples and have potentially scary running costs for me.
moose - I'm inclined to agree, although I think "lesser" (known / desired etc.) models are being dragged up, at least in terms of asking prices. We also still have to allow for wealthy enthusiasts who are simply willing to pay what it costs to secure something they want beyond as an investment vehicle. Be interesting to see what the 928 in question makes, although I'd imagine nothing so daft as 911-shaped stuff (especially GT / special models). I mean nealry £300k for 993 GT2 is nuts and I love those. A 993 RS is one of my favourite 90s cars and those are batst insane too. No clue how 2.2 / 2.4s models are house-price cars either, lovely and authentically vintage though they may be. It's a frickin base model! You could get most of the experience spending less than half as much on a 964 / resto mod shirley?
If you can still find a real GT2 for £300k, I wouldn't hesitate, I may even help with the financing!? Would include one in my fantasy garage but they are out of reach for decent examples and have potentially scary running costs for me.moose - I'm inclined to agree, although I think "lesser" (known / desired etc.) models are being dragged up, at least in terms of asking prices. We also still have to allow for wealthy enthusiasts who are simply willing to pay what it costs to secure something they want beyond as an investment vehicle. Be interesting to see what the 928 in question makes, although I'd imagine nothing so daft as 911-shaped stuff (especially GT / special models). I mean nealry £300k for 993 GT2 is nuts and I love those. A 993 RS is one of my favourite 90s cars and those are bats
t insane too. No clue how 2.2 / 2.4s models are house-price cars either, lovely and authentically vintage though they may be. It's a frickin base model! You could get most of the experience spending less than half as much on a 964 / resto mod shirley?
http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/porsche/99...
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/c00...
Cheburator mk2 said:
Have seen the E24s stabilize around £25 to £30k for most cars... The E28 is rarer, perhaps better as a car, but a bit more awkward looking, so £35k is strong money. Walkers have good rep - a really good friend bought his E46 M3 from them and the car has been spot on so far - but I think even they would struggle to achieve the price.
£35k isn't a high watermark for an E28 M5. They've consistently commanded a premium over an E24 for the past however-many-years. Whether that particular car is worth £35k is difficult to say without seeing it, but as mentioned there's not exactly an abundance of choice available right now.With so many POA adverts it's hard to really gauge the market, but it does seem that even though asking prices aren't necessarily softening, I suspect demand is. And surely that can only lead prices one way...
On a mostly unrelated note, if any of you have had the displeasure of piloting a 1.6i CVT Juke, you're more than welcome to join my support group. No-one should have to suffer that alone.
clubsport said:
If you can still find a real GT2 for £300k, I wouldn't hesitate, I may even help with the financing!?
http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/porsche/99...
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/c00...
Fair comment - I may have stopped looking about 20 months ago http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/porsche/99...
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/c00...
I do recall seeing an article about them being over double what I stated above a few months back. Not surprised some well-heeled-but-hubris-fuelled eejit is prepared to pay seven figures - why not, after all! Completely Nucking Futs.Flange - Oy vey! I feel your pain having had to pilot a Datsun Cashcow in auto configuration a few months back. Not a bad car in any absolute sense, but absolutely offensive to my priorities for transport. suffice it to say I was polite to the owner (we are related, which is agreeable for the most part, other than lack of auto-enthusiasm - couldve had a hot hatch or small estate for a similar price!) and ventured that it seemed practical enough for the duties to which it is generally put (ferrying two kids and sundry domestic items to and fro through Hertfordshire and North Smokesville
Output Flange said:
£35k isn't a high watermark for an E28 M5. They've consistently commanded a premium over an E24 for the past however-many-years. Whether that particular car is worth £35k is difficult to say without seeing it, but as mentioned there's not exactly an abundance of choice available right now.
think I might have to wade in here seeing as I was the last owner of the Walkers car I know that car inside out and its very nice after all the work I did to it as well as the previous owner before me. its nice and original inside and has the rare full leather interior, but its only question mark for me is paint. Its had a full respray but in a few areas it is a little 'flakey', don't know if Walkers have remedied that but i'd get it done again. 35K? its not too wide of the mark for me
Edited by GarageQueen on Tuesday 10th January 19:45
IIRC that M5 was up for 25k at 4* Classics for a while back in 2013/4. It was away having some paint done when I dropped in there and drove Gruber's old red one. It then dropped to around 22k and sold soon afterwards? I'm sure it later popped up on eBay with some minor looking rear end damage and was presumably bought and repaired by Walkers to what looks like a high standard.
Considering that E28 M5's have sold for 55k (low mileage SA import) and 95k (concours rebuild) in the past 18 months, I think this one looks really good at 35k and won't lose the new owner any money. Best estimates between 30 and 40 at most RHD cars left from the original 187?
Considering that E28 M5's have sold for 55k (low mileage SA import) and 95k (concours rebuild) in the past 18 months, I think this one looks really good at 35k and won't lose the new owner any money. Best estimates between 30 and 40 at most RHD cars left from the original 187?
I hate what's happened to the market, inevitable though it may be, purely because it puts so many childhood fantasies and more recent quasi-possibilities way beyond any kind of attainability for mere mortals. It's very much a first world problem but at its most troubling, it's also arguably a microcosm of excess / inequality generally.
Right now though, I'm feeling bullish, for want of a better expression. Call it a rationalisation of first world guilt
If you want it, have the cash and no of no material harm to others, why hesitate? You only have a finite amount of time in this life and it might be less than you think. Collect some memories!
Right now though, I'm feeling bullish, for want of a better expression. Call it a rationalisation of first world guilt
If you want it, have the cash and no of no material harm to others, why hesitate? You only have a finite amount of time in this life and it might be less than you think. Collect some memories!
Diesel Meister said:
If you want it, have the cash and no of no material harm to others, why hesitate? You only have a finite amount of time in this life and it might be less than you think. Collect some memories!
That is so true. This year I am hitting the big Four Zero... My mother was 46 when she succumbed to the Big C having led a super healthy lifestyle throughout. Hence I commissioned a nut and bolt restoration job on my 928, the GT3 is getting wings, bonnet and roof made of Carbon Fibre, and the boat is getting new genoa winches and a proper autopilot. The more toys I have the more I realize that I don't actually need them, but I really need the spare time to enjoy them. Between today and the 29th Aug 2016 the GT3 turned wheels only once to go from London to Rockingham for a track day. That's a shame... What's the point of lusting after another toy if I cannot enjoy even the ones I got?NickCQ said:
NKE?
Raymarine linear drive - really like the NKE stuff, but from what I have read and talked to a lot of other single/double handed racers for some reason it doesn't talk well to Raymarine electronics. Must be that famous French/British understanding 
Given that everything else is Raymarine and working without a glitch, I would go with it. The SPX10 is actually a great course computer and the linear drive is not too shabby. Was going to go with Jeffa for the linear drive, but Brexit put an end to this plan. As for the winches - the old 42.2 are great for full crew, but two handed I'd rather have self tailers for the genoas too...Cheburator mk2 said:
That is so true. This year I am hitting the big Four Zero... My mother was 46 when she succumbed to the Big C having led a super healthy lifestyle throughout. Hence I commissioned a nut and bolt restoration job on my 928, the GT3 is getting wings, bonnet and roof made of Carbon Fibre, and the boat is getting new genoa winches and a proper autopilot. The more toys I have the more I realize that I don't actually need them, but I really need the spare time to enjoy them. Between today and the 29th Aug 2016 the GT3 turned wheels only once to go from London to Rockingham for a track day. That's a shame... What's the point of lusting after another toy if I cannot enjoy even the ones I got?
I say thrice, amen! Closer to four-zero than thirty and already down one parental unit (the Chief, who is responsible for my love of cars - he had some belters in his time too!) and I'm thinking "f**k it - let's do something nuts-but-survivable!" on the car front. No risk, no reward etc.Use that GT3 whilst you can!
Cheburator mk2 said:
NickCQ said:
NKE?
Raymarine linear drive - really like the NKE stuff, but from what I have read and talked to a lot of other single/double handed racers for some reason it doesn't talk well to Raymarine electronics. Must be that famous French/British understanding Given that everything else is Raymarine and working without a glitch, I would go with it. The SPX10 is actually a great course computer and the linear drive is not too shabby. Was going to go with Jeffa for the linear drive, but Brexit put an end to this plan. As for the winches - the old 42.2 are great for full crew, but two handed I'd rather have self tailers for the genoas too...Cheburator mk2 said:
Diesel Meister said:
If you want it, have the cash and no of no material harm to others, why hesitate? You only have a finite amount of time in this life and it might be less than you think. Collect some memories!
That is so true. This year I am hitting the big Four Zero... My mother was 46 when she succumbed to the Big C having led a super healthy lifestyle throughout. Hence I commissioned a nut and bolt restoration job on my 928, the GT3 is getting wings, bonnet and roof made of Carbon Fibre, and the boat is getting new genoa winches and a proper autopilot. The more toys I have the more I realize that I don't actually need them, but I really need the spare time to enjoy them. Between today and the 29th Aug 2016 the GT3 turned wheels only once to go from London to Rockingham for a track day. That's a shame... What's the point of lusting after another toy if I cannot enjoy even the ones I got?The majority of the cars I see as desirable are now huge dollar and arguably beyond their best and need some work and TLC to sustain them. In certain cases, their values increase far faster than I can hope to build the resources to get them. There was a "have a word with yourself, it's over" moment with respect to F40s, which is relatively easy to rationalise. What's more difficult is the 993/928/968, Integrale/Cosworth, M635CSi/750i/850i/B8 etc etc.
What has become clear is that the price vs usability vs affordability quotients are FUBAR, probably peaked about ten years ago and the moments have passed. Conclusion: My birth was badly timed. The list of things that will never happen grows as quickly as the potential time to enjoy them diminishes and that is a fact of life.
First world problems.
M3csl, 993RS clone and 911SC nut and bolt resto.
None of which I could afford to buy back in the condition/mileage I sold them. I have however moved considerably up the property ladder which is taking all our spare cash at the moment so I do think the funds are better invested (long term).
Am I disappointed I can't easily purchase some old pork? A little but it's not like we can't afford any nice cars at all. They are still out there it's just the goalposts constantly move with time. A 996 is just where a 993 was 5 years ago and people forget that even back then the good ones were extremely rare and priced accordingly.
None of which I could afford to buy back in the condition/mileage I sold them. I have however moved considerably up the property ladder which is taking all our spare cash at the moment so I do think the funds are better invested (long term).
Am I disappointed I can't easily purchase some old pork? A little but it's not like we can't afford any nice cars at all. They are still out there it's just the goalposts constantly move with time. A 996 is just where a 993 was 5 years ago and people forget that even back then the good ones were extremely rare and priced accordingly.
olly22n said:
Yep.
I think early 70's were probably a good time to be born. Hate to think of the poor fkers born in the 90's.
True! I think early 70's were probably a good time to be born. Hate to think of the poor f
kers born in the 90's.Some young lads I know through karting are paying 3-4K to insure hot hatches.
Come on chaps, It's not been a bad innings. I enjoyed a 944T for 3K and a E39M5 for 7K. My 996 was cheap as chips in my eyes.
Ok so you can forget air cooled pork but there's still some great value to be had!
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