RE: Honda Civic Type R vs. Megane RS 275 Cup-S
Discussion
culpz said:
Amazes me how the Megane still manages to stack up against brand new metal. It's only really had a few power and design tweaks from the 250 and is still one of the best hot hatches out there.
I can't help but feel like the new Type R really hasn't lived up the the hype. It looks great and clearly drives great. I just don't know what it is but it's just kinda lost it's appeal.
Lol not lived up to the hype? Have you read Dan's reviews? Have you driven one? I can't help but feel like the new Type R really hasn't lived up the the hype. It looks great and clearly drives great. I just don't know what it is but it's just kinda lost it's appeal.
vz-r_dave said:
culpz said:
Amazes me how the Megane still manages to stack up against brand new metal. It's only really had a few power and design tweaks from the 250 and is still one of the best hot hatches out there.
I can't help but feel like the new Type R really hasn't lived up the the hype. It looks great and clearly drives great. I just don't know what it is but it's just kinda lost it's appeal.
Lol not lived up to the hype? Have you read Dan's reviews? Have you driven one? I can't help but feel like the new Type R really hasn't lived up the the hype. It looks great and clearly drives great. I just don't know what it is but it's just kinda lost it's appeal.
vz-r_dave said:
Lol not lived up to the hype? Have you read Dan's reviews? Have you driven one?
I haven't driven one no. I'm not saying it's a bad car in any way. It's clearly very fast and effective. But on the same regard the Megane has stacked up against it very well and just edged it according to this comparison.That's just my opinion. The Megane is not a whole new car, it's just facelift with a few tweaks made yet it's almost as good/fast/fun as the Civic which is a whole new model. Makes you wonder how it'll compare with the brand new Megane RS when that comes out.
Edited by culpz on Tuesday 26th July 13:23
Quickmoose said:
vz-r_dave said:
culpz said:
Amazes me how the Megane still manages to stack up against brand new metal. It's only really had a few power and design tweaks from the 250 and is still one of the best hot hatches out there.
I can't help but feel like the new Type R really hasn't lived up the the hype. It looks great and clearly drives great. I just don't know what it is but it's just kinda lost it's appeal.
Lol not lived up to the hype? Have you read Dan's reviews? Have you driven one? I can't help but feel like the new Type R really hasn't lived up the the hype. It looks great and clearly drives great. I just don't know what it is but it's just kinda lost it's appeal.
vz-r_dave said:
If I were in the market for a hot hatch, I wouldn't base my purchase on aesthetics.....
Really?So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
You'd base you choice on Performance I get that, me too, but where aesthetics comes into play is a really fascinating subject for me, having studied car design decades ago...
A lot of the ownership experience will see you weapon sat on the drive, in the garage or as above in a car park. I take as much joy form my car looking at it as I do listening to it as I do driving it... if it was failing in the performance as noise area, you can spend a few quid and perhaps improve it.
Badly proportioned car remains that way not matter what you do.... (sorry.... IMO)
Quickmoose said:
vz-r_dave said:
If I were in the market for a hot hatch, I wouldn't base my purchase on aesthetics.....
Really?So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
You'd base you choice on Performance I get that, me too, but where aesthetics comes into play is a really fascinating subject for me, having studied car design decades ago...
A lot of the ownership experience will see you weapon sat on the drive, in the garage or as above in a car park. I take as much joy form my car looking at it as I do listening to it as I do driving it... if it was failing in the performance as noise area, you can spend a few quid and perhaps improve it.
Badly proportioned car remains that way not matter what you do.... (sorry.... IMO)
In my books the DC2 trumps any new turbo hit hatch, it's not a looker but it provides a much more immersive driving experience. Same goes for my Pulsar VZ-R, not pretty but with a set of coil overs it was amazing to drive. That's what counts!
vz-r_dave said:
Quickmoose said:
vz-r_dave said:
If I were in the market for a hot hatch, I wouldn't base my purchase on aesthetics.....
Really?So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
You'd base you choice on Performance I get that, me too, but where aesthetics comes into play is a really fascinating subject for me, having studied car design decades ago...
A lot of the ownership experience will see you weapon sat on the drive, in the garage or as above in a car park. I take as much joy form my car looking at it as I do listening to it as I do driving it... if it was failing in the performance as noise area, you can spend a few quid and perhaps improve it.
Badly proportioned car remains that way not matter what you do.... (sorry.... IMO)
anyway...
vz-r_dave said:
In my books the DC2 trumps any new turbo hit hatch, it's not a looker but it provides a much more immersive driving experience. Same goes for my Pulsar VZ-R, not pretty but with a set of coil overs it was amazing to drive. That's what counts!
Couldn't agree more...and both far better and more cohesive to look at...Quickmoose said:
vz-r_dave said:
Quickmoose said:
vz-r_dave said:
If I were in the market for a hot hatch, I wouldn't base my purchase on aesthetics.....
Really?So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
You'd base you choice on Performance I get that, me too, but where aesthetics comes into play is a really fascinating subject for me, having studied car design decades ago...
A lot of the ownership experience will see you weapon sat on the drive, in the garage or as above in a car park. I take as much joy form my car looking at it as I do listening to it as I do driving it... if it was failing in the performance as noise area, you can spend a few quid and perhaps improve it.
Badly proportioned car remains that way not matter what you do.... (sorry.... IMO)
anyway...
vz-r_dave said:
In my books the DC2 trumps any new turbo hit hatch, it's not a looker but it provides a much more immersive driving experience. Same goes for my Pulsar VZ-R, not pretty but with a set of coil overs it was amazing to drive. That's what counts!
Couldn't agree more...and both far better and more cohesive to look at...
Quickmoose said:
Really?
So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
I know this is PH where binary thinking rules but why go to extremes ? Loads of shades of grey between good looking and fugly.So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
Also, and that makes my first point irrelevant, did you not forget about subjectivity ? As in, one person can like what you call a mess and dislike what you call cohesive. They might think it's precisely the opposite...because aesthetics are totally subjective, I would have thought.
Alex_6n2 said:
Good stuff. Pop over and say hi if you do. I'll be with a Cayman GT4 that will no doubt be demonstrating what 6 cylinders sounds like.
For science, of course.
Booked, see you there. Got the car now, just washing off some oil that must have dropped from the car above on the transporter then off for its first drive.For science, of course.
Looks are always going to be subjective. I think it looks good, not superb or pants wetting levels of beauty but it's mad and slightly OTT approach is better than a staid looking Golf in my opinion, it looks better than the Focus RS too IMO, of course many will disagree with me but there really is no right or wrong answer in this department.
It seems to be quite colour sensitive to me, the grey ones are the best, followed by blue, but the white looks a bit tragic, the shape of the arches and detailing get lost on it to me, which is a shame with the colour carrying so much Honda heritage.
Would the way a car looks put me off buying it? Yes! But it wouldn't be the primary motivator.
It seems to be quite colour sensitive to me, the grey ones are the best, followed by blue, but the white looks a bit tragic, the shape of the arches and detailing get lost on it to me, which is a shame with the colour carrying so much Honda heritage.
Would the way a car looks put me off buying it? Yes! But it wouldn't be the primary motivator.
nickfrog said:
Quickmoose said:
Really?
So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
I know this is PH where binary thinking rules but why go to extremes ? Loads of shades of grey between good looking and fugly.So if a god awful mess of proportion and ill thought out detail, hot hatch laps the ring in 7:45
and a really high quality cohesive bit of art (that's a hot hatch) laps the ring in 7:50
you'd choose the munter?
Also, and that makes my first point irrelevant, did you not forget about subjectivity ? As in, one person can like what you call a mess and dislike what you call cohesive. They might think it's precisely the opposite...because aesthetics are totally subjective, I would have thought.
And I also am well of personal opinion and subjectivity, hence why I think the conversation is interesting, and not about to start a campaign to make everyone like what I like, or even agree with me at all?!
I mean I wouldn't buy a car that was drop dead gorgeous but that drove badly either. It's just fascinating reading and understand how, why and where people position the varying aspects of buying a car, especially the sportier, top of the line stuff.
FN2TypeR said:
Looks are always going to be subjective. I think it looks good, not superb or pants wetting levels of beauty but it's mad and slightly OTT approach is better than a staid looking Golf in my opinion, it looks better than the Focus RS too IMO, of course many will disagree with me but there really is no right or wrong answer in this department.
It seems to be quite colour sensitive to me, the grey ones are the best, followed by blue, but the white looks a bit tragic, the shape of the arches and detailing get lost on it to me, which is a shame with the colour carrying so much Honda heritage.
Would the way a car looks put me off buying it? Yes! But it wouldn't be the primary motivator.
100% agree. I have seen black, white, blue and grey ones in the flesh now. The grey is like a dark silver and looked awesome on a well polished car. Spotted a blue one yesterday and that looked much nicer than I imagined, darker than in many pictures and rather than clashing with the red bits it worked, probably my favourite. I expected black to work the best but it just looked a bit meh really, white is a hideous mess on these cars it really doesn't suit it at all.It seems to be quite colour sensitive to me, the grey ones are the best, followed by blue, but the white looks a bit tragic, the shape of the arches and detailing get lost on it to me, which is a shame with the colour carrying so much Honda heritage.
Would the way a car looks put me off buying it? Yes! But it wouldn't be the primary motivator.
Has driving position been mentioned in this thread? I haven't tried the Civic but driving position often pops up in reviews and its the one big thing I can't stand with either of our French hatches (Megane R26, Pug 207 GT). I don't know why but they have this habit of putting the steering wheel and gear shifter to far away. I have my wheel all the way back and down in the Megane and still my wrists are around 2 to 3" off the top of the wheel, my left arm is fully stretched when changing into some of the gears (awful gearshift another thing the Japs usually do far better than the French). Question marks over the quality and reliability of non-mechanical kit on the cars (water leaks, crazy windows, battle with trim rattles and blasted key cards have tried my mk2 Megane patience) means there are loads why one may decide not to go with the French hatch options.
Tran said:
Did you really drive these on track? If so, 2 questions,
1. Why no laptimes?
2. How on earth did you not notice that all Eu6 Megane 275s derate to <200ps on track?!!
Eh?1. Why no laptimes?
2. How on earth did you not notice that all Eu6 Megane 275s derate to <200ps on track?!!
My 275 Cup-S was still comfortably pulling ahead of Clio 220s and others on the back straight at Bedford yesterday
If it was down below 200ps that would not have been the case....
Derek Chevalier said:
Do they?
Yes.Alex_6n2 said:
Eh?
My 275 Cup-S was still comfortably pulling ahead of Clio 220s and others on the back straight at Bedford yesterday
If it was down below 200ps that would not have been the case....
Did you do many laps? On my 3rd consecutive lap of the 'Ring it was down to the same pace as a Clio 200 up Kesselchen! Would occasionally recover to a dizzying 250ps for the odd moment, only to derate again. Didn't recover, even the next day.My 275 Cup-S was still comfortably pulling ahead of Clio 220s and others on the back straight at Bedford yesterday
If it was down below 200ps that would not have been the case....
Alex_6n2 said:
Tran said:
Did you really drive these on track? If so, 2 questions,
1. Why no laptimes?
2. How on earth did you not notice that all Eu6 Megane 275s derate to <200ps on track?!!
Eh?1. Why no laptimes?
2. How on earth did you not notice that all Eu6 Megane 275s derate to <200ps on track?!!
My 275 Cup-S was still comfortably pulling ahead of Clio 220s and others on the back straight at Bedford yesterday
If it was down below 200ps that would not have been the case....
Tran said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Do they?
Yes.Alex_6n2 said:
Eh?
My 275 Cup-S was still comfortably pulling ahead of Clio 220s and others on the back straight at Bedford yesterday
If it was down below 200ps that would not have been the case....
Did you do many laps? On my 3rd consecutive lap of the 'Ring it was down to the same pace as a Clio 200 up Kesselchen! Would occasionally recover to a dizzying 250ps for the odd moment, only to derate again. Didn't recover, even the next day.My 275 Cup-S was still comfortably pulling ahead of Clio 220s and others on the back straight at Bedford yesterday
If it was down below 200ps that would not have been the case....
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