ABD Launches Campaign Against Speed Awareness Courses

[Sheetmaself]

I think the main issue that your coming up against is the fact that we all accept the consequences of our actions.

99% of the time I know the speed limit, some of that time I will make a judgement to drive at a higher speed, all of that time i am willing to accept i knew what i was doing and accepted the risk of getting caught, non of that time do i really care who's caught me.

[brman]

deeps said:

brman said:

That's right, you are not winning your argument so the best thing to do is insult those you want support from. Nice move..........

I am sure I am not the only one to see the irony in the bit highlighted

Same question to you, please quote where I have insulted anyone.

I did in my previous post
Your whole previous post insinuated that anyone who disagrees with you is misguided and somehow unable to understand the bigger picture. Unfortunately you also failed to address any of the arguments given against you.

[anonymous-user]

The easiest way to destroy the revenue stream and reduce the proliferation of camera vans?

Don't break the law.

There is nothing unfair or immoral about the current system. They are using the revenue from the courses to enforce the law and educate drivers who break the law rather than it coming out of general taxation or not being done at all.

What the ABD should be doing is lobbying for changes to the law to make speed limits more sensible, for practical measures to raise the piss-poor standard of driving on our roads and to get the focus away from speed, speed, speed. Isn't that what their "manifesto" states?

This half-arsed campaign does exactly the opposite because it makes them look like the usual "waaaahhhh I wanna drive at the speed I wanna drive at, it's so unfair" whingers, they've just wrapped it up in a load of legal-sounding woo.

[Gary C]

Never heard of the ABD until this post, and now don't want to hear of them again.

Knobs.

[CS Garth]

Good ABD awareness thread this.

Of course they are mental complaining that money used by lawbreakers shouldn't be used to catch more law breakers.

The courses keep points off licenses, insurance costs lower, increase driver awareness and thus safety and as a bonus give a load of retired rozzers called Keith something to do/talk about at their Masonic lodge.

[Pothole]

CS Garth said:

Good ABD awareness thread this.

Of course they are mental complaining that money used by lawbreakers shouldn't be used to catch more law breakers.

The courses keep points off licenses, insurance costs lower, increase driver awareness and thus safety and as a bonus give a load of retired rozzers called Keith something to do/talk about at their Masonic lodge.

How does it affect insurance costs?

[Slow]

Pothole said:

ow does it affect insurance costs?

You don't have points, your insurance is cheaper than with.

[Pothole]

Slow said:

Pothole said:

ow does it affect insurance costs?

You don't have points, your insurance is cheaper than with.

Oh, he meant it doesn't in and of itself increase individual premiums (for the moment, until the insurers lobby for, and gain, access to the course attendance info and cane us for it).

[CS Garth]

Pothole said:

Slow said:

Pothole said:

ow does it affect insurance costs?

You don't have points, your insurance is cheaper than with.

Oh, he meant it doesn't in and of itself increase individual premiums (for the moment, until the insurers lobby for, and gain, access to the course attendance info and cane us for it).

Exactly

[deeps]

More than one of the campaign supporters are former police officers, and it's well worth reading what one had to say in this blog post:

“As a former senior police traffic officer and ABD member I have grave reservations about Speed Awareness courses. In my view they ‘offer’ an expensive alternative to prosecution for excessive speeds which in the past would not trouble the guides to prosecutors, so low are the infringements.

So it is that the great and the good sit meekly through half a day’s instruction whilst persistent, dangerous speeders get away with it because the police service has given up overt traffic enforcement. Add to this the proliferation of new speed limits which do not meet long standing criteria and more speed cameras and you have the recipe for both a cash cow and a feeling of driver persecution. Road safety? I don’t think so…….. Malcolm B “.

[CS Garth]

deeps said:

More than one of the campaign supporters are former police officers, and it's well worth reading what one had to say in this blog post:

“As a former senior police traffic officer and ABD member I have grave reservations about Speed Awareness courses. In my view they ‘offer’ an expensive alternative to prosecution for excessive speeds which in the past would not trouble the guides to prosecutors, so low are the infringements.

Malcolm B “.

That makes no sense at all. I think deciphering his garbage he is alleging that a very low number of people do very excessive speeds and are allowed to go on speed awareness courses instead of being prosecuted. And Malcolm doesn't like it. i find it hard to believe that material numbers of people are being caught at say 30 percent plus over the limit and sent on the course.

What sort of speeds have those who have been on the cause been caught doing?

[powerstroke]

Sheetmaself said:

I think the main issue that your coming up against is the fact that we all accept the consequences of our actions.

99% of the time I know the speed limit, some of that time I will make a judgement to drive at a higher speed, all of that time i am willing to accept i knew what i was doing and accepted the risk of getting caught, non of that time do i really care who's caught me.

Ok but what about the lowering of speed limits on our A roads from 60 down to as low as 30 where nothing has changed
apart from maybe a local councillor now lives on that road,
Anyone think stupidly low limits are anything but counterproductive ????

[Muppet32]

I really don't get the logic of the OP's argument. £80-£100 fine, by the time all overheads are covered: camera, maintenance, admin etc then the course fees: venue, 2 trainers etc, there won't be an awful lot left to fund 'a multi million pound conspiracy'.

And that's without the fact that the courses actually do a half reasonable job at equipping you with information and 'tools' to prevent you from re-offending and being fined again.

On the course I attended, I couldn't believe how poor people's knowledge was about speed limits etc. Pretty much everyone came away a lot better informed, which is a good thing, right?

[TooMany2cvs]

Muppet32 said:

I really don't get the logic of the OP's argument.

That's because there isn't any.

[waremark]

deeps said:

More than one of the campaign supporters are former police officers, and it's well worth reading what one had to say in this blog post:

“As a former senior police traffic officer and ABD member I have grave reservations about Speed Awareness courses. In my view they ‘offer’ an expensive alternative to prosecution for excessive speeds which in the past would not trouble the guides to prosecutors, so low are the infringements.

So it is that the great and the good sit meekly through half a day’s instruction whilst persistent, dangerous speeders get away with it because the police service has given up overt traffic enforcement. Add to this the proliferation of new speed limits which do not meet long standing criteria and more speed cameras and you have the recipe for both a cash cow and a feeling of driver persecution. Road safety? I don’t think so…….. Malcolm B “.

So he is protesting against too little leeway above the posted limit, unjustified reductions in speed limits, and a lack of traffic police on the road. None of that is a reason to object to SAC's.

[Gary C]

So why doesn't this ABD campaign against excessively low thresholds and over enforcement, rather than a course which everybody would prefer to an endorsement ?

Arse & elbows.

[davepoth]

deeps said:

Good question. Here in Somerset the speed camera partnership was disbanded when they could no longer keep the money from fines, fixed cameras were turned off and vans were scrapped. The job was rightly left to traffic police.

Then the clever SAC's were invented, securing a huge flow of money for funding speed camera vans, which have returned with bells and whistles.

Your impression of a reduction in vans is incorrect, I don't know where you received your information?

The amount of course venues in most counties around the country is staggering, each holding 2 or more sittings per day. It's a mind boggling amount of money when you attempt to work it out.

It'll vary by region, but certainly I agree with you about Avon & Somerset - the number of vans around here is silly. There's one parked at the end of my road most days, I almost feel like waving!

[deeps]

davepoth said:

It'll vary by region, but certainly I agree with you about Avon & Somerset - the number of vans around here is silly. There's one parked at the end of my road most days, I almost feel like waving!

It's a legalised scam through and through. Just site vans on roads where the safe average speed of traffic is above the dumbed down limit, invent a method - a SAC to collect the revenue and bypass the FPN, throw in a dose of propaganda, add some 'save the children' spice, and kerching kerching all day long. They rake in multi millions, their overheads are a drop in the ocean compared to the colossal turnover.

The only way to halt the expansion is to hit the funding via SAC's, which will prove difficult no doubt because of the clever way it's been set up to appeal to the very people it's creaming money out of, as can be seen by replies in this thread, although it's also possible many of the contributors here have come across from Brake or other such orginisations.

[deeps]

Gary C said:

So why doesn't this ABD campaign against excessively low thresholds and over enforcement, rather than a course which everybody would prefer to an endorsement ?

Arse & elbows.

They do campaign and have been successful in having some dumbed down limits raised, such as the A38 in Somerset.

Your point about people prefering the course I've tried to cover several times, it's the very meat of the issue, so either people aren't reading what's been presented previously or are playing dumb. I have the feeling some people are making lazy comments without reading the links presented.

[xRIEx]

deeps said:

Your point about people prefering the course I've tried to cover several times, it's the very meat of the issue, so either people aren't reading what's been presented previously or are playing dumb. I have the feeling some people are making lazy comments without reading the links presented.

Or they have a different opinion to you.