The best drivel to come out of a dealers mouth.
Discussion
unrepentant said:
mikey k said:
JD Powers 2016 survey for reliability doesn't feature a JLR product in the top 50! Infact the XF is the best and it is beaten by numerous Renaults, an Alfa and a Jeep.
I doubt it. They don't sell Renaults in the USA and Alfa is just making its comeback now. Anyway, I said "a few years ago". Go back a few years and Jag were right up there, even beat Lexus and Porsche for customer satisfaction a couple of times.Jaguar have NEVER come first in any JD Power reliability survey (or any other reliability survey
)mikey k said:
unrepentant said:
mikey k said:
JD Powers 2016 survey for reliability doesn't feature a JLR product in the top 50! Infact the XF is the best and it is beaten by numerous Renaults, an Alfa and a Jeep.
I doubt it. They don't sell Renaults in the USA and Alfa is just making its comeback now. Anyway, I said "a few years ago". Go back a few years and Jag were right up there, even beat Lexus and Porsche for customer satisfaction a couple of times.Jaguar have NEVER come first in any JD Power reliability survey (or any other reliability survey
)http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7122708&am...
http://www.autobytel.com/auto-news/buick-jaguar-to...
Jaguar regularly comes close to the top of appeal and customer satisfaction surveys in the US too. Customers with unreliable cars are rarely satisfied...
Shambler said:
I went to buy a car for my mistress. As I parked my new LEXUS C200H I noticed the envy of the gaggle of salesmen at the premium car I was able to lease on my five figure salary.
After viewing several cars we found a car that would accommodate my intimidating 5'5 frame, a five year old Fiat Punto. i had been looking at this car for some time and had spent four weeks researching it so that I could impress my hot lady friend.
I asked the salesman if the steel had been pressed in Turin and he didn't know. I laughed out loud, told him I would not be buying the car and walked out the door. The sales manager approached and as I shook his hand I increased the pressure till I heard the bones snap.
Afterwards we went to the local Lexus garage for a coffee to meet like minded enthusiasts.
I'll be honest, this made me chuckle a fair bit.After viewing several cars we found a car that would accommodate my intimidating 5'5 frame, a five year old Fiat Punto. i had been looking at this car for some time and had spent four weeks researching it so that I could impress my hot lady friend.
I asked the salesman if the steel had been pressed in Turin and he didn't know. I laughed out loud, told him I would not be buying the car and walked out the door. The sales manager approached and as I shook his hand I increased the pressure till I heard the bones snap.
Afterwards we went to the local Lexus garage for a coffee to meet like minded enthusiasts.
Mostly because as sad as it is, it's quite possibly in line with some of the chaps on here.
mikey k said:
Living up to the thread title
There are other countries beyond the US, both those links relate to one survey in the US for one year
Bit different from NEVER though isn't it matey There are other countries beyond the US, both those links relate to one survey in the US for one year
In fairness (and I have no axe to grind I don't work for JLR) Jaguar reliability has been excellent in recent years.
mikey k said:
Living up to the thread title
There are other countries beyond the US, both those links relate to one survey in the US for one year
As he was in the US, at the US auto show, talking to an American customer (at an American show, you got that right) about a car for sale in the US then how, exactly weas what he said said living up to the thread title? It was about as perfect as it could possibly be There are other countries beyond the US, both those links relate to one survey in the US for one year
unrepentant said:
mikey k said:
Living up to the thread title
There are other countries beyond the US, both those links relate to one survey in the US for one year
Bit different from NEVER though isn't it matey There are other countries beyond the US, both those links relate to one survey in the US for one year
In fairness (and I have no axe to grind I don't work for JLR) Jaguar reliability has been excellent in recent years.
One thing I never got was how Jag and LR, same company produce such reliable/unreliable cars.
Hugh Jarse said:
Classic PH tosser, states "Never" proved wrong but cant admit it.
One thing I never got was how Jag and LR, same company produce such reliable/unreliable cars.
There's a bit of a misnomer concerning reliability. In the latest US JD Power survey the most reliable brand was Lexus with a score of 95, meaning 95 faults per 100 cars or .95 faults per car. Industry average is 1.5 faults and the worst was Dodge at 2.08 faults per car. Jaguar is actually unranked as their volumes are too small. Land rover has 1.98 faults per car. So basically all cars are reliable.One thing I never got was how Jag and LR, same company produce such reliable/unreliable cars.
A lot of "faults" are not faults at all. As an example the tailgate on the 2006-11 Range Rover Sport was responsible for many of the LR faults reported during that period. The tailgate is split and if it wasn't closed correctly a light would come on and customers would record it as a fault on their survey. This was a customer education issue, the tailgate worked fine if the customers knew how to close it. Land Rover eventually fixed the issue by fitting a power tailgate.
Shambler said:
I went to buy a car for my mistress. As I parked my new LEXUS C200H I noticed the envy of the gaggle of salesmen at the premium car I was able to lease on my five figure salary.
After viewing several cars we found a car that would accommodate my intimidating 5'5 frame, a five year old Fiat Punto. i had been looking at this car for some time and had spent four weeks researching it so that I could impress my hot lady friend.
I asked the salesman if the steel had been pressed in Turin and he didn't know. I laughed out loud, told him I would not be buying the car and walked out the door. The sales manager approached and as I shook his hand I increased the pressure till I heard the bones snap.
Afterwards we went to the local Lexus garage for a coffee to meet like minded enthusiasts.
After viewing several cars we found a car that would accommodate my intimidating 5'5 frame, a five year old Fiat Punto. i had been looking at this car for some time and had spent four weeks researching it so that I could impress my hot lady friend.
I asked the salesman if the steel had been pressed in Turin and he didn't know. I laughed out loud, told him I would not be buying the car and walked out the door. The sales manager approached and as I shook his hand I increased the pressure till I heard the bones snap.
Afterwards we went to the local Lexus garage for a coffee to meet like minded enthusiasts.
quality.andymc said:
we were just talking on the other thread how all the angry people we deal with tend to be software engineers
I'm not really angry, I just don't like sale people in general, and IME most car salesmen are no better than double glazing salesmen in the scummy tactics they employ. At least you are self-employed, so chances are you run a perfectly decent operation since you don't have hierarchy of smug scumbags breathing down your neck all day.Having spent a considerable amount of a former career fixing the incredible f
k ups that dealers consistently made on customers cars and then charged them a fortune for the privilege, I have no time whatsoever for dealers and their rampant dishonesty and negligence.FWIW I've actually been an applications engineer for a long time now, just not updated my profile.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Sunday 24th July 10:36
Do enough research and it shouldn't matter if the salesman tells you it's powered by THC and unicorn anus - you should know if it's a good one or not.
The one thing that people of PH forget is that no matter how clued up on anything you are, to a car salesman you're just a member of the public. Even the car sales people are members of the public when they aren't at work (if you catch my drift here).
The public are morons.
I would be very surprised if a few of the things in this thread weren't said as a sort of "Oi gav, see these two here, I'm going to tell them that xxx does yyy".
The one thing that people of PH forget is that no matter how clued up on anything you are, to a car salesman you're just a member of the public. Even the car sales people are members of the public when they aren't at work (if you catch my drift here).
The public are morons.
I would be very surprised if a few of the things in this thread weren't said as a sort of "Oi gav, see these two here, I'm going to tell them that xxx does yyy".
unrepentant said:
Theophany said:
"Professionals"? 
We're talking about salespeople, not accountants, GPs, engineers, what have you. I think you need to be a tad more realistic with your expectations.
Selling is a profession. And nearly every successful entrepreneur is a salesperson. As in every profession there are good ones and bad ones. Look through the CEO's of the Fortune 500 and you'll find that most of them are salespeople. Why would you sneer at sales people and imply that they are somehow inferior to accountants and engineers? What do you do that makes you feel so superior? We're talking about salespeople, not accountants, GPs, engineers, what have you. I think you need to be a tad more realistic with your expectations.
Theophany said:
Accountants and engineers require certification or qualification of some sort in order to practice their trade, which means it's more difficult for shysters to get in or poor practitioners to continue. I think you've taken my comment rather personally.
'cause you never get useless or bent accountants.Yep, you've got to remember most of us are anoraks when it comes to cars.
I've had plenty of conversations at dealerships where they simply don't know what they are selling. You know the geek points like BHP, lbs's/ft, name of the paint, type of alloys etc.
A salesman once asked what other cars I had and I said a Westfield, he looked at me like he'd just soiled himself. He didn't have a clue.
Some are just not enthusiasts, they are just selling a product like double glazing. It's actually refreshing to talk to someone that knows what they are talking about and I'm certain they sell more cars than the average salesman.
I've had plenty of conversations at dealerships where they simply don't know what they are selling. You know the geek points like BHP, lbs's/ft, name of the paint, type of alloys etc.
A salesman once asked what other cars I had and I said a Westfield, he looked at me like he'd just soiled himself. He didn't have a clue.
Some are just not enthusiasts, they are just selling a product like double glazing. It's actually refreshing to talk to someone that knows what they are talking about and I'm certain they sell more cars than the average salesman.
Had generally good experiences a couple of years ago when I went to trade in my Saab estate for a less practical car ( shortlist was 350Z, Z4, S2000 & MX-5)
All the independent dealers I visited (bar one) either had pretty good knowledge of the cars or admitted they didn't as they weren't the mainstream models they usually dealt with.
One tried to big up the Z4 2.0 as the fastest version BMW ever produced and insisted that it'd be far quicker than my current car. That's after insisting on giving me a trade in quote for the 2.8 turbo (with Hirsch remap) v6 Saab I arrived in..
Biggest disappointment was the Honda dealer. I'd prearranged the test drive as they were an hour away from me, so didn't want to waste my time if it wasn't driveable. Turned up and had to wait while they moved other cars out the way and found a jumpstart unit. When it was eventually running, they wouldn't let my other half come with me for the test drive - apparently all S2000 drives have to be accompanied as they're such a performance vehicle.
They failed to mention in the advert or in person that it had a modified exhaust and missing toolkit/spare wheel, tonneau cover (only found out because the previous owner was a poster on here). They also offered me half what anyone else would for my car.
The MX-5 experience was completely different - was given the keys and told to bring it back a couple of hours later as 'you need to drive these for a while and on familiar roads to really get to know them' . No BS at all from the salesman either - pointed out a couple of stonechips and a very mild kerbing of one alloy without being prompted.
Wasn't entirely down to the dealers, but went with the MX-5 in the end.
All the independent dealers I visited (bar one) either had pretty good knowledge of the cars or admitted they didn't as they weren't the mainstream models they usually dealt with.
One tried to big up the Z4 2.0 as the fastest version BMW ever produced and insisted that it'd be far quicker than my current car. That's after insisting on giving me a trade in quote for the 2.8 turbo (with Hirsch remap) v6 Saab I arrived in..
Biggest disappointment was the Honda dealer. I'd prearranged the test drive as they were an hour away from me, so didn't want to waste my time if it wasn't driveable. Turned up and had to wait while they moved other cars out the way and found a jumpstart unit. When it was eventually running, they wouldn't let my other half come with me for the test drive - apparently all S2000 drives have to be accompanied as they're such a performance vehicle.
They failed to mention in the advert or in person that it had a modified exhaust and missing toolkit/spare wheel, tonneau cover (only found out because the previous owner was a poster on here). They also offered me half what anyone else would for my car.
The MX-5 experience was completely different - was given the keys and told to bring it back a couple of hours later as 'you need to drive these for a while and on familiar roads to really get to know them' . No BS at all from the salesman either - pointed out a couple of stonechips and a very mild kerbing of one alloy without being prompted.
Wasn't entirely down to the dealers, but went with the MX-5 in the end.
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