cars with good engineering

cars with good engineering

Author
Discussion

swlove

Original Poster:

17 posts

93 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Part of my enjoyment of a car comes from knowing that it has been well designed and won't break often. And if it does break that it is fairly easy to fix.

Of course that is not all that is important but I cannot stand stuff that breaks easily.
I just had my dishwasher replaced by a Miele. The wheels on my old dishwasher kept falling off due to bad design and that annoyed me big time. I just found myself looking at my new dishwasher admiringly.
Hope that's not sad!

I have a Defender and a L322 Range Rover. I've decided to get rid of the Range Rover because things break too easily and that bugs me. I cannot think of another car that has all the good attributes of a Range Rover but won't break so easy. Maybe that is the curse of modern more complicated cars.


So instead of focusing on the annoyances of bad design (that can be another thread) let's focus on the enjoyment of good design and engineering.

What cars (old and new) do you enjoy because how well they work because of the careful thought that has gone into them and how is that exhibited?

Some examples:
Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
Land Rover Defender

LordHaveMurci

12,034 posts

168 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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The 996 thread on here mentions the good engineering in the cars, he seems to know his stuff.

wack

2,103 posts

205 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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I ad a Subaru Impreza WRX for almost 3 years ,bought a 4 years old, sold at 7 , nothing broke, it handled just as you'd expect and went like stink

I really miss the fun and driving experience it gave me but the fuel bill was a killer

jhonn

1,556 posts

148 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Firstly - welcome to pistonheads!

I'm going to proffer a fairly mundane candidate - the Fiat Panda; for what it is it appears well designed, can carry 4 large adults comfortably, has decent ergonomics, cheap and easy to fix, tough and economical, it's light, handles well, can take a thrashing and is pretty much classless.

I'm going to take exception to your example of the Defender for the following reasons..
Poor ergonomics
The chassis is full of mud-traps which hasten corrosion
Aluminium/steel galvanic corrosion
They leak (from new)
Poor turning circle
The gearboxes give trouble
Hit-and-miss build quality
Design flaws (oil in wiring loom, etc)
Badly sited components (fuel/water separator exposed in the rear wheel bay)

Yes, I know that they have their good points and people love them despite their flaws, however that's just some of the areas where I feel that they are not particularly well designed and engineered.

Harji

2,196 posts

160 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Best engineered cars I've owned? My current Saab 900 and a Subaru Legacy, both feel like they have been designed by engineers rather than 'designers'. The Legacy had a Momo steering wheel as standard and one of the best that my hands have gripped, also the 4wd system was marvellous, as was the engine.

The SAAB is engineered a bit oddly at first impressions (drivetrain mounted at the front) but when you read why, it makes sense.

rallycross

12,744 posts

236 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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The Porsche 944 and Nissan Primera p10/p11 fit this criteria.
So many cars do not, maybe it's just cost cutting?

simonr100

640 posts

116 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
LordHaveMurci said:
The 996 thread on here mentions the good engineering in the cars, he seems to know his stuff.
Loads of problems with these - RMS, IMS and bore scoring are some examples. They are great cars and I nearly bought one 18 months ago.

jamiem555

750 posts

210 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Subaru Impreza Turbo classic. Well thought out, easy to work on. Even the brake pipes are covered in plastic to prevent corrosion. At 130k miles mine was still solid. With some extra maintenance and attention to detail it became a doddle to run and look after.

mp3manager

4,254 posts

195 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
DC5 Type R with the K20A engine.

I'd drive it 2hrs to a track, thrash it around the track for 2hrs, then have a 2hr drive home. I would do this every month for 8 months of the trackday season and it never missed a beat or used any oil...and it still had a 12 month/12,500 miles service schedule.

swlove

Original Poster:

17 posts

93 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
jhonn said:
Firstly - welcome to pistonheads!
Well spotted, thank you!!!

jhonn said:
I'm going to proffer a fairly mundane candidate - the Fiat Panda; for what it is it appears well designed, can carry 4 large adults comfortably, has decent ergonomics, cheap and easy to fix, tough and economical, it's light, handles well, can take a thrashing and is pretty much classless.
Good example!
Do they last well?

jhonn said:
I'm going to take exception to your example of the Defender for the following reasons..
Poor ergonomics
The chassis is full of mud-traps which hasten corrosion
Aluminium/steel galvanic corrosion
They leak (from new)
Poor turning circle
The gearboxes give trouble
Hit-and-miss build quality
Design flaws (oil in wiring loom, etc)
Badly sited components (fuel/water separator exposed in the rear wheel bay)

Yes, I know that they have their good points and people love them despite their flaws, however that's just some of the areas where I feel that they are not particularly well designed and engineered.
I knew that not everyone would agree on the Defender. However they do not break easily, they last for many decades, they are easy to fix and parts of them are well engineered (for the time they were designed in).

A Toyota LandCruiser is probably better engineered (however I still don't like them, engineering is definitely not everything that makes me like a car).

swlove

Original Poster:

17 posts

93 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
S.H.A.D.O. said:
Any car that takes more than a couple of minutes to change a headlamp bulb should not appear in this thread, that should narrow it down! biggrin
I doesn't disqualify the whole car (no car is perfect) but it is a good example of bad engineering!

clockworks

5,292 posts

144 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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2CV and the original Mini

Matt Harper

6,613 posts

200 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Chevy Suburban

jhonn

1,556 posts

148 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
swlove said:
A Toyota LandCruiser is probably better engineered (however I still don't like them, engineering is definitely not everything that makes me like a car).
You're right - overall the LandCruiser is better engineered (We've run one now for ten years, coming up to 200k miles).

'Tis a funny thing though - I wasn't that keen on the 'Cruiser at first, but over time have come to respect its abilities and reliability - it's not a vehicle I 'love' though, not like the way I used to 'love' my Defender (at the time).

The LandCruiser has its engineering and design flaws too though - the rear seats don't fold flat, the extra seats in the boot are not integrated and the back door with the heavy spare is woefully inadequate. Strong engines and drivetrain though.



V8 FOU

2,970 posts

146 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
I am biased (wot on PH, never!) but I would forget the Silver Shadow, and buy a Bentley Turbo R, post '92.

Beautiful engineering. For instance, the door and boot handles, also the door lock pulls are solid brass, chrome plated. Everything is over-engineered. Why does mine do track days without a murmur?

InfiniteVoltage

5,180 posts

216 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Speaking from a sports gt/super car background then the most reliable and over-engineered car I can remember owning was a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo.
In my earlier days I bought one 2nd hand and it was the UK-spec version. Owned the car for 5 years and never missed a single beat. This was after upping the boost (along with a few other tweaks) to give around 400+bhp and doing countless laps on the nurburgring.

After reading more in to why it was so solid, it seemed Toyota were originally going to build the car for much more power than what eventually made it to market. For example, the Getrag gearbox and the 2JZ-GTE engine block could take upwards of 600 and 800bhp respectively straight from the factory.
This and at the time the Supra had to compete with the NSX, the GTR and also the 911.

Having also owned a F430, a Gallardo and now an MP4-12C, its only the McLaren that has given the impression of being reassuringly reliable.
I did have a few issues with the Ferrari and Lambo, nothing major, but things that didn't inspire confidence in the overall attention to detail and 'engineering'.
With the McLaren however, you can see and feel the engineering all over the place.

Valgar

850 posts

134 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
Another vote for a Legacy here, wish I never sold it, it was brilliantly put together. I towed with it constantly, the na 2.0 engine was a beauty, you'd swear it was bigger by the seamless torque it provided, as I recall it was designed with a near flat torque curve the whole way through the rev range and it felt like it, also handled amazingly and was brilliant in the snow.

If I had to have just one car for the rest of my driving life it'd be a Legacy Estate 3.0

rossub

4,400 posts

189 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
mp3manager said:
DC5 Type R with the K20A engine.

I'd drive it 2hrs to a track, thrash it around the track for 2hrs, then have a 2hr drive home. I would do this every month for 8 months of the trackday season and it never missed a beat or used any oil...and it still had a 12 month/12,500 miles service schedule.
All Hondas with a K20 are the same. Just incredible reliability - very rare to need anything other than consumables.

The Ors

174 posts

112 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
swlove said:
S.H.A.D.O. said:
Any car that takes more than a couple of minutes to change a headlamp bulb should not appear in this thread, that should narrow it down! biggrin
I doesn't disqualify the whole car (no car is perfect) but it is a good example of bad engineering!
...but when did you last change a headlamp bulb?

I've had my car since 2005 and never changed a headlamp bulb.

LordHaveMurci

12,034 posts

168 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
quotequote all
simonr100 said:
LordHaveMurci said:
The 996 thread on here mentions the good engineering in the cars, he seems to know his stuff.
Loads of problems with these - RMS, IMS and bore scoring are some examples. They are great cars and I nearly bought one 18 months ago.
Owned one for 7yrs, most of the issues are massively overblown wink