RE: F1 driver training... in an Astra
Discussion
Health and Safety Dan said:
You could slap your hand on a gas ring at full power and not burn yourself. But if you held it there over a much smaller flame for a number of seconds you'd end up barbecuing your palm.
I just tried the first suggestion. My hand now hurts so I don't recommend it. To be scientific I tried the second approach with my other hand. That was a bad idea. These tips are not going to improve my drive home, so I had better call for the helicopter to collect me.Other than that, a good article. If going on track I am a firm believer in spending money on driver training alongside spend on cars and track modifications.
A great article. It's interesting how the development of chassis, tyre and suspension technology has changed the driving styles in many motorsports, less sliding, more turn it in, point and the exit and shoot it out, most visibly evident in rally driving. The ones who can adapt to the new style are the ones who win it big.
As we often hear in the F1 forum though, anyone can drive in F1 if they're rich enough - which of course is total b
ks. It's great to have an insight into the sort of techniques the top drivers are using, even if us regular blokes could never possess even a tenth of their practically superhuman talents.
As we often hear in the F1 forum though, anyone can drive in F1 if they're rich enough - which of course is total b
ks. It's great to have an insight into the sort of techniques the top drivers are using, even if us regular blokes could never possess even a tenth of their practically superhuman talents.On the topic, I remember an old article in Evo where Derek Bell (I think) drove Richard Meaden around in either an Audi or a Bentley LMP car.
He talked about 'waiting for the car to settle' so he could get back on the accelerator ASAP.
As you can see, my memory is extremely fuzzy here, so I could even be mixing up multiple articles. But if the above is accurate, (actually... even if not) someone like Bell would certainly be a good to listen to re. changes in driving style through the ages,
He talked about 'waiting for the car to settle' so he could get back on the accelerator ASAP.
As you can see, my memory is extremely fuzzy here, so I could even be mixing up multiple articles. But if the above is accurate, (actually... even if not) someone like Bell would certainly be a good to listen to re. changes in driving style through the ages,
Edited by anoother on Tuesday 26th July 18:44
The whole 'small returns' aspect of the thought process is something that they've been saying in sport for a while and it's applied to rugby and cycling and has had some good results. I was fortunate enough to drive a Lexus LCF courtesy of PH with an ex-F1 driver as my 'coach' for all of 3 minutes or so up the Goodwood Festival of Speed hill and they create a whole 'aura' about them as well that you relax with them, but it's another thing when you're on your own trying to remember what/when etc! The coaching is entirely different to that I had a few years ago at a professional motorsport day which is interesting.
K50 DEL said:
What's the cost of a session like this Dan?
Not sure it is available to Joe Public.Two good pieces a while back on MailOnline but can only find this one at the moment
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-3680...
He is apparently training VanDoorn (not sure of spelling) too
Be interesting to know how Lewis Hamilton drives compared to Nico Rosberg....
There's enough hours of woffle on television for someone to tell us!!
CABC said:
" As Rob has it, there are lots of people who drive racing cars. But a much smaller number who can count themselves as real racing drivers."
That's sad. The fact that with modern cars & tyres you feel the car less, and instead brutally execute a turn so you can maximise acceleration with a flat car. compressing the corners to a minimum. Doesn't sound very Jim Clark, a guy who jumped into all sorts of machinery and won without specialising in the format. Nowadays the formats are so specialised you don't see natural skill crossing formulas as much.
You can see why F1 is down and historic racing is popular.
Exactly this, interesting subject but is like comparing computer created art against a masterpiece. I can't ever imagine going out for a spirited blast and then recalling all the 'flat car' cornering I achieved over a glass of wine later.That's sad. The fact that with modern cars & tyres you feel the car less, and instead brutally execute a turn so you can maximise acceleration with a flat car. compressing the corners to a minimum. Doesn't sound very Jim Clark, a guy who jumped into all sorts of machinery and won without specialising in the format. Nowadays the formats are so specialised you don't see natural skill crossing formulas as much.
You can see why F1 is down and historic racing is popular.
'Hey guys........, come check out the lack of tyre wear I managed through those twisties!'
Currently living in the land of opposite lock, V8 super car racing and burn outs this sort of thinking is blasphemy.
Not thanks, I like being in the Jensen camp and intend to stay there. I have lost all love I have for F1 and now know the reason why.
Good article though Dan, keep up the excellent work.
PaulJC84 said:
Great article.
I wonder if this guys son ever got any tuition from him and how he got on after it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It actually wasn't for my son, it was for a young driver I was looking after at the time.I wonder if this guys son ever got any tuition from him and how he got on after it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
We ended up spending quite a bit of time with Rob and I can confirm he is a legend. Even though I was only ever in the car for short periods during the tuition the whole thing was absolutely fascinating and I was able to learn a lot over breakfast and the lunchtime pie break as we talked things through (as well as many other motorsport and non motor sport related topics!).
Great times!
I've spent a couple of days with Rob too and he is the definition of a legend. He's great company too so it's always a fun day out anyway and he has helped me massively. I went to him for the first time a couple of years ago having had zero tuition through my career and got to the point where I had no idea how to go faster.
The short corner technique is one thing I took away from the day but the other was simply being more conscious about what I'm doing with the car and focusing on what seems the most efficient rather than what feels the most loaded and 'fastest'.
Like the man himself says, it's not about being a faster racing driver it's about crossing the finish line first.
Having said that, some corners, 'Racing Driver corners' as Rob put it to me, are still about balls and car control so there's still places where chucking a car at a corner as fast as you dare or can handle makes a difference!
The short corner technique is one thing I took away from the day but the other was simply being more conscious about what I'm doing with the car and focusing on what seems the most efficient rather than what feels the most loaded and 'fastest'.
Like the man himself says, it's not about being a faster racing driver it's about crossing the finish line first.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Personally I'll drive a racing car like he taught me and go out and drive my M3 track car in a way that I enjoy! If I feel like it (usually when I've had my fill of hooning around in 4 wheel drifts) I will still go back out to focus on being quick/correct and practice my technique though. Without trying to sound flash between racing and the day job I don't feel I've got much left to learn or prove when it comes to limit car control in a tin top or sports car so focusing on technique becomes the enjoyable intellectual challenge.Having said that, some corners, 'Racing Driver corners' as Rob put it to me, are still about balls and car control so there's still places where chucking a car at a corner as fast as you dare or can handle makes a difference!
if you search for him on your tube there are a couple of videos showing what he does etc. Search for PeterWindsor Rob Wilson's World
I think the cost is around £1200 for the day - so not cheap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDUKCjzI9G0 - a lap of Bruntingthorpe with Rob at the wheel
I think the cost is around £1200 for the day - so not cheap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDUKCjzI9G0 - a lap of Bruntingthorpe with Rob at the wheel
Edited by Jerry Can on Wednesday 27th July 20:39
So would it be quicker to drive in say a hexagon than a circle on an imaginary circular track based on this theory?
Also is there not a power threshold where being under a certain power:grip ratio means the car doesn't have the acceleration to maximise this approach? I imagine formula 1 cars wouldn't have this issue.
Also is there not a power threshold where being under a certain power:grip ratio means the car doesn't have the acceleration to maximise this approach? I imagine formula 1 cars wouldn't have this issue.
VeeFource said:
So would it be quicker to drive in say a hexagon than a circle on an imaginary circular track based on this theory?
Also is there not a power threshold where being under a certain power:grip ratio means the car doesn't have the acceleration to maximise this approach? I imagine formula 1 cars wouldn't have this issue.
As the article says, it's all about minimising slip angles. This is especially important for F1 as slip = heat, and the current tyres have a very narrow temperature window. Also is there not a power threshold where being under a certain power:grip ratio means the car doesn't have the acceleration to maximise this approach? I imagine formula 1 cars wouldn't have this issue.
It's also designed for modern F1 circuits, which are all "point and squirt" style - slow the car down for the sharp corner, compromise apex speed to position the car for maximum acceleration, floor it - so this is much more for F1 style driving.
yep I am not sure how this work for roads cars on track !!!
"The basic premise being the traditional circuit driving mantra of smooth lines, opening the corners and taking the path of least resistance is simply outdated."
is it though !
F1 is a whole new game with saving tyres and they have the power out the bends no issue.
roads cars need to carry as much speed out the bends as possible as they don't have to worry about tyre wear and don't have the power to get max speed by the next corner !
most road cars feel under powered on track so getting the corner speed right is key for the next straight vmax where time is gained !
alass we don't drive "the modern racing car" as stated in the review !
As can be seen with qually F1, laps are far faster than racing laps due to the tyre they have to keep good, so F1 cars are racing slower laps !!!! NOT faster laps !!! and on the qually laps they are smoother and leaning on the tyre in full, hence they only get 2 laps at top speed !!
Lewis is a racer, he says he can go far far faster, but he has to keep the tyres good ! again can be seen on in laps when they ALWAYS do a fast inlap.
do we want F1 training to go faster on track days, I don't think so !
Yes we all need training, but imo in a road car exit speed is key to a fast lap. Track knowledge again "key" noted in the review 3/4 of the gain was in knowing the track !
"The basic premise being the traditional circuit driving mantra of smooth lines, opening the corners and taking the path of least resistance is simply outdated."
is it though !
F1 is a whole new game with saving tyres and they have the power out the bends no issue.
roads cars need to carry as much speed out the bends as possible as they don't have to worry about tyre wear and don't have the power to get max speed by the next corner !
most road cars feel under powered on track so getting the corner speed right is key for the next straight vmax where time is gained !
alass we don't drive "the modern racing car" as stated in the review !
As can be seen with qually F1, laps are far faster than racing laps due to the tyre they have to keep good, so F1 cars are racing slower laps !!!! NOT faster laps !!! and on the qually laps they are smoother and leaning on the tyre in full, hence they only get 2 laps at top speed !!
Lewis is a racer, he says he can go far far faster, but he has to keep the tyres good ! again can be seen on in laps when they ALWAYS do a fast inlap.
do we want F1 training to go faster on track days, I don't think so !
Yes we all need training, but imo in a road car exit speed is key to a fast lap. Track knowledge again "key" noted in the review 3/4 of the gain was in knowing the track !
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 28th July 10:57
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