RE: Noble M600 reborn and revisited
Discussion
Equus said:
sjc said:
So from that, you can tell the quality of the materials and stitching, whether the carbon is fake or not, the feel of the switchgear?
No, but I can tell the quality of the design, and the presentation.Both of which are simply atrocious.
To be fair, they're better than the interior on the M12, which was even more amateurish and was the single thing that stopped me buying one.
Equus said:
sjc said:
Having had 4 TVR's with very pretty interiors,and since two Nobles, I know which interiors I prefer.....The one that is functional and works.
For £200K, I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect both.sjc said:
Equus said:
sjc said:
Having had 4 TVR's with very pretty interiors,and since two Nobles, I know which interiors I prefer.....The one that is functional and works.
For £200K, I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect both.And I'll ask again as you didn't answer but selectively quoted previously also..., have you seen the M600 up close,or better still sat in one?
sjc said:
And I'll ask again as you didn't answer but selectively quoted previously also..., have you seen the M600 up close,or better still sat in one?
Yes, I've seen one up close (at the Autosport show in Birmingham).It made no real impression if I'm honest - just another generic wannabe supercar: there are always a handful, at each year's show.
sjc said:
I was replying to your quote about the M12,which was 45K when launched.
Well, as I say, it was the interior of the M12 that put me off buying one, so I don't think it was acceptable even at £45K... it simply betrays its kit-car roots far too obviously.But let me ask you a question: do you think (really, honestly) that the M600's interior design and quality is appropriate for a £200K supercar?
A simple yes or no will suffice (that way I won't be able to 'selectively misquote' you).
Having said that, I expect I know the answer you'll give, and I reckon it will say more about you and your motivation for posting than the truth.
Equus said:
sjc said:
So from that, you can tell the quality of the materials and stitching, whether the carbon is fake or not, the feel of the switchgear?
No, but I can tell the quality of the design, and the presentation.Both of which are simply atrocious.
To be fair, they're better than the interior on the M12, which was even more amateurish and was the single thing that stopped me buying one.
This is, at the end of the day, a very fast car, with 3 pedals and barely any driver aides and people are making a thing out of the switch gear.
Hi all,
Thank you for all of your comments, both good and bad, just glad that Noble is still so loved!
No photograph can do the interior justice I'm afraid, but when I do organise a breakfast meet, you'll be able to see for yourselves.
Please remember that the orange car has 40,000+ miles on it, so I think the interior is wearing extremely well.
Below is a picture of our latest development car, the Speedster, and this gives a much better indication of the quality and craftsmanship involved in this car.
Everything that looks like Carbon is Carbon, not some decorative wrap, and the level of personalisation is immense!
Thank you for all of your comments, both good and bad, just glad that Noble is still so loved!
No photograph can do the interior justice I'm afraid, but when I do organise a breakfast meet, you'll be able to see for yourselves.
Please remember that the orange car has 40,000+ miles on it, so I think the interior is wearing extremely well.
Below is a picture of our latest development car, the Speedster, and this gives a much better indication of the quality and craftsmanship involved in this car.
Everything that looks like Carbon is Carbon, not some decorative wrap, and the level of personalisation is immense!
Just an old porsche fan said:
And the interior on a Lotus Elise (I am ex owner) is so much better is it? Oh look dear, this is a swtich from a Metro and by the way, can you move the mirror on your side which is also from a metro. Hang on let me turn my lights on by pressing this here switch from a Mondeo. And so on and so on.
This is, at the end of the day, a very fast car, with 3 pedals and barely any driver aides and people are making a thing out of the switch gear.
Be fair. The lightswitches were from Peugeot, column stalks from Vauxhall, mirrors from Citroen This is, at the end of the day, a very fast car, with 3 pedals and barely any driver aides and people are making a thing out of the switch gear.
Equus said:
sjc said:
And I'll ask again as you didn't answer but selectively quoted previously also..., have you seen the M600 up close,or better still sat in one?
Yes, I've seen one up close (at the Autosport show in Birmingham).It made no real impression if I'm honest - just another generic wannabe supercar: there are always a handful, at each year's show.
sjc said:
I was replying to your quote about the M12,which was 45K when launched.
Well, as I say, it was the interior of the M12 that put me off buying one, so I don't think it was acceptable even at £45K... it simply betrays its kit-car roots far too obviously.But let me ask you a question: do you think (really, honestly) that the M600's interior design and quality is appropriate for a £200K supercar?
A simple yes or no will suffice (that way I won't be able to 'selectively misquote' you).
Having said that, I expect I know the answer you'll give, and I reckon it will say more about you and your motivation for posting than the truth.
And see why I said yes in the pics above.
So my motivation for posting the answer is? Oh hang on, you may need to insult me, as apparently my answer tells you something about me.
Edited by sjc on Wednesday 24th August 14:39
Equus said:
sjc said:
And my motivation for posting the answer is?
Part trolling, part fanboism.HTH
ttalk about something you don't like. You don't have to like it but that doesn't make it st, in exactly the same way that if someone likes it, it doesn't automatically make it awesome. Welcome to having an opinion.xRIEx said:
TBH, you come across as the archetypal nega-fanboi.
Actually, I wouldn't disagree with you: it's born of a cynicism that comes from having spent 40 years observing the British specialist car industry. You come to realise that 98.5% of these projects - even the really good ones - founder without trace after a few years at best, and the reasons for them doing so are usually painfully obvious to all but their perpetrators (who invariably see themselves as the next Enzo Ferrari/Ettore Bugatti/Colin Chapman) and their handful of disciples .
A £200K supercar is a very rarified product: to sell more than the sort of numbers you can count on one hand, you can't afford to make excuses for amateurish design.
Equus,
The white car is still at the factory and is a 3 year old design buck that is used to trial new ideas.
The green Speedster is all new, revised from the ground up with many new features, and showcases some of the things that are currently in development.
All I will say is that there is plenty still to come from this Great British brand.
And yes, they do sell, are selling, and are loved by those that buy them.
The white car is still at the factory and is a 3 year old design buck that is used to trial new ideas.
The green Speedster is all new, revised from the ground up with many new features, and showcases some of the things that are currently in development.
All I will say is that there is plenty still to come from this Great British brand.
And yes, they do sell, are selling, and are loved by those that buy them.
Here's my honest take on the M600.
First, I need to declare that I'm a Noble fan-boy. I currently own an M12, which despite it's age is untouchable in the price point for what it is (IMHO) i.e. a car for both road and track. I have driven the orange demonstrator M600, currently at SVR with their very kind indulgence. They recently arranged an open day for current Noble owners, and many of us were lucky enough to have the opportunity to drive the car. Their hospitality was first class. I haven't driven any of the modern batch of supercars 458/488, Lambos, 675 etc, so I cannot compare to the (assumed) competition. So yes, my opinion is biased, but I will try to be objective:
Exterior design:
I think it looks great, except for the front-end. Better in the flesh and better out of showroom lights.
To correct an earlier post, the body design came from the Noble M14, not the slightly later M15. Google it - surprising the similarity.
It is a little dated looking. Transpose the M15 front-end/headlights onto it and it would immediately freshen up the look. But the rear-end looks fantastic. Really purposeful.
Interior:
Good enough. (But remember I was in the 40k miles demonstrator). Everything was where you'd expect. The quality and feel was all there. Nothing plasticy, nothing wobbly. Nothing worn or tired. Nothing parts bin (although I'm sure 'parts' were used) It felt a really nice place to be. And comfortable and not cramped. I could imagine driving to the Riviera in it. If it were a £100k car, it would feel appropriate. The extra money you pay has gone elsewhere!
Driving:
My test drive was about 20 minutes, on the Queen's highway and accompanied. However I was encouraged to put it through its paces wherever possible.
My M12 is running just over 400bhp and a little lighter and smaller than the M600. Therefore I'm used to a car that really shifts, and handles elegantly - pinpoint sharp but compliant. I thought that M600 would have a difficult job to convince me that it's worth 5x the price of my M12 - not the case!
First we set off in 'road' mode, i.e. 450 bhp (similar power to weight to my Noble). So it was really quick, but the instant impression is that this is a completely different proposition in terms of ride, chassis poise, steering, handling. I already knew what all the fuss was about.
And I now understand why the analogue thing is so important. Everything was progressive. Gear change and steering input respond exactly as your would hope. No harsh clutch. Not easy to drive as in modern euro-boxes, but easy as in everything just feels right. The only surprise was the brakes - slightly wooden. This I understand is because the rears are not servo assisted. You soon get used to it and I have no doubt that once pushed, the non assisted feel will become natural and aid to the touch (again, the analogue feel). <In contrast, I drove a Hyundai hire car yesterday. The brakes were so light, they were like a switch. So difficult to control the deceleration without nutting the windscreen.>
Cornering; I'm used to a car that corners on rails. Coming off a roundabout onto the M40, I was at first a little tentative about giving it too much throttle coming out of the bend. But it instantly felt really sure-footed and confidence inspiring.
Then it was time to turn it to 'track' mode. There was I, virtually walked in off the street (I had prebooked though), expected to be told to keep it below 3,000 rpm and to leave it in safe mode. But no - the guys at SVR obviously have enough confidence in the car to let me unleash it. So with the toggle set to the 550bhp option the car instantly wanted to go. It was egging me on, and really teasing me to give it a little squirt wherever possible. I could tell that this was really quick and significantly faster than my car, but the test route didn't yet give me the opportunity to fully enjoy the setting. Slowing down for roundabouts, I realise I'm still in 'track' mode, yet the car is really benign when not pushed and driven in general traffic.
So not long at all until I turn to 'race'. 650bhp now. 3rd gear, 2 seconds of full throttle (possibly wasn't even that long) but I realise how stunningly quick this car is.
My test drive was long enough to give me a lasting impression. But not long enough to fully appreciate the performance, grip, handling etc. If ever I get the opportunity for a few laps of a track, I will most certainly wet my pants in excitement and anticipation. I'm used to track driving, but the prospect of the M600 wouldn't unnerve me. I know I would have the confidence to really push it, as everything responds as you would expect.
Who will buy this car:
No one who takes any notice of debate about interior design or exterior styling. No one who is trying to impress his (non petrolhead) mates and not someone who is concerned about turning heads down the Kings Road. No one who's worried about depreciation, and no one who's buying it as an investment. (Although it could well attain cult status after production is ceased).
It would probably be the owner's second, third or umpteenth supercar, but it will be bought purely for the driving experience. Someone who doesn't want to be fiddling with the double clutch flappy paddle to find reverse getting it out of the garage. (Although the auto option is on its way). Someone who sees this as a bargain when an old Ferrari F50 is worth £1m. Someone who would prefer drive to their house in Provence rather that take the jet.
Would I buy it?:
Not from my first £million.
It's quite practical too - more luggage space than my M12!
Finally a huge thank you to Alan and the guys at SVR for allowing me to sample this remarkable machine.
To doubters - go drive it if you get the chance. Then come back here and let us know your thoughts. To discount it or overvalue it before driving it is pretty irrelevant.
First, I need to declare that I'm a Noble fan-boy. I currently own an M12, which despite it's age is untouchable in the price point for what it is (IMHO) i.e. a car for both road and track. I have driven the orange demonstrator M600, currently at SVR with their very kind indulgence. They recently arranged an open day for current Noble owners, and many of us were lucky enough to have the opportunity to drive the car. Their hospitality was first class. I haven't driven any of the modern batch of supercars 458/488, Lambos, 675 etc, so I cannot compare to the (assumed) competition. So yes, my opinion is biased, but I will try to be objective:
Exterior design:
I think it looks great, except for the front-end. Better in the flesh and better out of showroom lights.
To correct an earlier post, the body design came from the Noble M14, not the slightly later M15. Google it - surprising the similarity.
It is a little dated looking. Transpose the M15 front-end/headlights onto it and it would immediately freshen up the look. But the rear-end looks fantastic. Really purposeful.
Interior:
Good enough. (But remember I was in the 40k miles demonstrator). Everything was where you'd expect. The quality and feel was all there. Nothing plasticy, nothing wobbly. Nothing worn or tired. Nothing parts bin (although I'm sure 'parts' were used) It felt a really nice place to be. And comfortable and not cramped. I could imagine driving to the Riviera in it. If it were a £100k car, it would feel appropriate. The extra money you pay has gone elsewhere!
Driving:
My test drive was about 20 minutes, on the Queen's highway and accompanied. However I was encouraged to put it through its paces wherever possible.
My M12 is running just over 400bhp and a little lighter and smaller than the M600. Therefore I'm used to a car that really shifts, and handles elegantly - pinpoint sharp but compliant. I thought that M600 would have a difficult job to convince me that it's worth 5x the price of my M12 - not the case!
First we set off in 'road' mode, i.e. 450 bhp (similar power to weight to my Noble). So it was really quick, but the instant impression is that this is a completely different proposition in terms of ride, chassis poise, steering, handling. I already knew what all the fuss was about.
And I now understand why the analogue thing is so important. Everything was progressive. Gear change and steering input respond exactly as your would hope. No harsh clutch. Not easy to drive as in modern euro-boxes, but easy as in everything just feels right. The only surprise was the brakes - slightly wooden. This I understand is because the rears are not servo assisted. You soon get used to it and I have no doubt that once pushed, the non assisted feel will become natural and aid to the touch (again, the analogue feel). <In contrast, I drove a Hyundai hire car yesterday. The brakes were so light, they were like a switch. So difficult to control the deceleration without nutting the windscreen.>
Cornering; I'm used to a car that corners on rails. Coming off a roundabout onto the M40, I was at first a little tentative about giving it too much throttle coming out of the bend. But it instantly felt really sure-footed and confidence inspiring.
Then it was time to turn it to 'track' mode. There was I, virtually walked in off the street (I had prebooked though), expected to be told to keep it below 3,000 rpm and to leave it in safe mode. But no - the guys at SVR obviously have enough confidence in the car to let me unleash it. So with the toggle set to the 550bhp option the car instantly wanted to go. It was egging me on, and really teasing me to give it a little squirt wherever possible. I could tell that this was really quick and significantly faster than my car, but the test route didn't yet give me the opportunity to fully enjoy the setting. Slowing down for roundabouts, I realise I'm still in 'track' mode, yet the car is really benign when not pushed and driven in general traffic.
So not long at all until I turn to 'race'. 650bhp now. 3rd gear, 2 seconds of full throttle (possibly wasn't even that long) but I realise how stunningly quick this car is.
My test drive was long enough to give me a lasting impression. But not long enough to fully appreciate the performance, grip, handling etc. If ever I get the opportunity for a few laps of a track, I will most certainly wet my pants in excitement and anticipation. I'm used to track driving, but the prospect of the M600 wouldn't unnerve me. I know I would have the confidence to really push it, as everything responds as you would expect.
Who will buy this car:
No one who takes any notice of debate about interior design or exterior styling. No one who is trying to impress his (non petrolhead) mates and not someone who is concerned about turning heads down the Kings Road. No one who's worried about depreciation, and no one who's buying it as an investment. (Although it could well attain cult status after production is ceased).
It would probably be the owner's second, third or umpteenth supercar, but it will be bought purely for the driving experience. Someone who doesn't want to be fiddling with the double clutch flappy paddle to find reverse getting it out of the garage. (Although the auto option is on its way). Someone who sees this as a bargain when an old Ferrari F50 is worth £1m. Someone who would prefer drive to their house in Provence rather that take the jet.
Would I buy it?:
Not from my first £million.
It's quite practical too - more luggage space than my M12!
Finally a huge thank you to Alan and the guys at SVR for allowing me to sample this remarkable machine.
To doubters - go drive it if you get the chance. Then come back here and let us know your thoughts. To discount it or overvalue it before driving it is pretty irrelevant.
Jarcy said:
To doubters - go drive it if you get the chance. Then come back here and let us know your thoughts. To discount it or overvalue it before driving it is pretty irrelevant.
Thanks for your write up. I'm not sure about practicality of the Roadster as has already been discussed. If you take the roof off you have to leave it at home. Not really practical. My 650s turns into a convertible at the touch of a button still has room for some luggage and would still be in the same performance parameters as the M600 roof up or down.However I also don't agree with you on your final paragraph as reproduced above. A car is more than just about how good it is to drive. Unless of course I'm simply racing where how quick it is and how accesible that speed is is all that matters. In all other cases there are multiple facets to a car that we look for. As such if it fails on many other fronts irrelevant to how it drives I will discount it, as will many others.
What also is interesting is your summary of who will actually buy it. It is a very specific car for a very specific person. I just don't think there are many of them.
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