RE: Noble M600 reborn and revisited

[stuttgartmetal]

I'd expect the interior to look immaculate at forty thou
Take a look at any McLaren at that mileage.
You could buy a 991 GT3RS for under 200k out of the factory.

Utter utter rubbish

[Turquoise]

What's utter utter rubbish?

[stuttgartmetal]

Not the Porsche.

[Turquoise]

So the Noble is utter utter rubbish? Nothing of merit there at all?

[Boshly]

sjc said:

Equus said:

sjc said:

Going by the sort of high end stuff they sell, do you honestly think they would be involved in selling anything that was a true refection of that pic?

The answer would appear to be yes (picture from their website):

So from that, you can tell the quality of the materials and stitching, whether the carbon is fake or not, the feel of the switchgear?
I will assume, that this is yet another post from someone who has never seen one or sat in one?
They wouldn't,I assure you.

I've used your quote as it's one of the shorter ones and contains a picture that bears comment.

I have seen the car in the flesh in detail as I have alluded to elsewhere. However that photo does give a bad impression with out the need to sit in an actual car. The mix of materials used (CF leather alcantara and turned metal) doesn't work and shows lack of cohesion. The 90s cd player. The steering wheel and boss. The multi function stalks borrowed from another. The lack of a multi function display. These are all elements which will be a negative. Not enough on their own for some/most to discount a purchase I'm sure but they can't really be defended. The M600's direct rivals (Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini IMHO) are more ergonomically and aesthetically designed in these areas.

I do agree the latest photos are definitely an improvement but still not there again IMO.

Oh and fake carbon fibre? At this price range? I'm sure you may be able to dig out an example with a lot of detective work but at this level I'm pretty sure that's non existent so shouldn't come into the discussion.

Going back to the lack of cohesion of the interior, well I'm pretty sure I know why. To create and manufacture a bespoke item for a small run is expensive, to get such items type approved, even with whatever small run exemptions may exist is virtually cost prohibitive. The development costs of all these independant items would be huge, and that's why many such cars utilise other cars bits. The high quality manufacturers won't licence or release their pieces and so it falls back to mainstream suppliers on a high value car. Unless the manufacturer is bloody good or lucky it's difficult to disguise the lack of quality.

This of course is also why the car is so expensive. The development costs are huge when divided over tens/hundreds rather than thousands of cars. McLaren/Porsche/Ferrari have huge budgets also and other income streams (branding) to recoup these costs as well as the thousands of vehicles to amortise them against.

I don't know enough about the background of the company to know their real aspirations, goals and backing but good luck to them.

The only similar company I can think of is Koennigsegg (Pagani though started at a similar ish price point - same value vehicles but 10 years ago - they sold on beautiful design as Horacio is fantastic designer. McLarens design teams, F1 background and proper budgets blow Noble out of the water) however don't think that Koennigsegg make their money just out of their cars. They are a thriving engineering company providing consultancy and engineering solutions to various industries. As I said, no idea on Nobles 'other' stuff, just that I can see why the car is so expensive at £250/300k and that I don't feel it justifies it as a standalone vehicle. To anyone happy to pay that because of the way it drives, fair play.

I'm sure it looks like I have a gripe against Noble and thus my posts - I don't. I do find it difficult to read all the wonderful accolades being thrown at the car about how wonderful it is against the mainstream offerings by people who haven't bought one. Everyone's entitled to an opinion - as I am ably demonstrating - but to dismiss anyone who dares to question the car by the marques fans as a naysayer or ignorant or a troll without a sensible discussion is what makes me and I'm sure others want to tell the 'other side' of the story.

Rhetoric apart however, what will really be telling will be sales

[sjc]

Boshly...
A naysayer is just someone who has a constant negative stance or doubts on something.To have those thoughts on something never seen or experience of is naysaying. It's not an insult.
Not sure you had the time to scroll through but the only person who has been called a troll (and fanboy !)is me,by someone who's opinion is apparently always the truth.And you can't have it both ways, by saying you find it difficult to read all the wonderful things by those who haven't bought one ( but have at least knowledge and experience of it) while defending those who slag it when they haven't even seen one ( or probably heard of it until this thread).Anyway, we're going round in circles with that !! If it was anywhere near as bad as some on here who haven't seen it claim,they wouldn't have sold one.. What's happened is, they've not had a owner re-sell. Massively high net worth people who wouldn't put up with a crap/rubbish/kit car product.
As I've said previously,it's not for everyone ( and I was shocked when it first came out over a number of things ( I was on the list for the m14/15, and was gutted when the price when from 75k to 100k to 150 k and then through the stratosphere into the m600 )and my posts from years back on the Noble forum will show I was highly sceptical at the time,but I get it now,it's a completely new car to those, it's a great car (in my opinion ), and it makes much more sense to me now than at launch.
This isn't a mythical speed12. Trident iceni, Farboud, Arash Mk73,or one of Lee Nobles various other projects that haven't got off the ground. It's a real product, doing ok against the established names, and I'm just glad it exists.
Would I buy one ? If my total car budget was circa 300k then maybe not, as the deprecation is too much of an unknown unless I could be convinced otherwise, and a year old 650S would pop out at me with plenty of change.
If I was rich enough to have a bigger budget and a couple of other Supercars ( the demographic SVR suggest is their target market) then I absolutely would.

Edited by sjc on Thursday 25th August 08:36

[babatunde]

Jarcy said:

Here's my honest take on the M600.
First, I need to declare that I'm a Noble fan-boy. I currently own an M12, which despite it's age is untouchable in the price point for what it is (IMHO) i.e. a car for both road and track. I have driven the orange demonstrator M600, currently at SVR with their very kind indulgence. They recently arranged an open day for current Noble owners, and many of us were lucky enough to have the opportunity to drive the car. Their hospitality was first class. I haven't driven any of the modern batch of supercars 458/488, Lambos, 675 etc, so I cannot compare to the (assumed) competition. So yes, my opinion is biased, but I will try to be objective:


Finally a huge thank you to Alan and the guys at SVR for allowing me to sample this remarkable machine.
To doubters - go drive it if you get the chance. Then come back here and let us know your thoughts. To discount it or overvalue it before driving it is pretty irrelevant.

This is the thing though, if you aren't comparing it to competitors then you aren't really reviewing it and have no basic to be objective with, as your last statement clearly points out it can't be assessed in a vacuum.

[will_]

sjc said:

It's a real product, genuinely doing ok against the established names...

Is it though?

I believe this question remains unanswered:

Boshly said:

Are you able to tell us how many cars have been sold to customers?

I've seen a fair few M600s but I get the feeling (I might be wrong) that I might have seen the same car in different colours. Whilst Noble are keen to emphasise that no-one who has bought an M600 has ever sold it, I don't think I've ever seen a confirmation as to precisely how many cars that represents.

I believe that Romans were dealers for Noble until recently - they seem to have been replaced by SVR. Was that because there weren't many (any?) cars being sold?

There is a market for this kind of car, but it is very limited. Whether it is sustainable in the long run who knows.

This I agree with though:

sjc said:

and I'm just glad it exists.

[isaldiri]

Boshly said:

A car is more than just about how good it is to drive. Unless of course I'm simply racing where how quick it is and how accesible that speed is is all that matters. In all other cases there are multiple facets to a car that we look for. As such if it fails on many other fronts irrelevant to how it drives I will discount it, as will many others.

So you are basically saying the all important thing to you for a car is the badge on it's nose rather than how it actually drives?

[Boshly]

isaldiri said:

Boshly said:

A car is more than just about how good it is to drive. Unless of course I'm simply racing where how quick it is and how accesible that speed is is all that matters. In all other cases there are multiple facets to a car that we look for. As such if it fails on many other fronts irrelevant to how it drives I will discount it, as will many others.

So you are basically saying the all important thing to you for a car is the badge on it's nose rather than how it actually drives?

No. That is your assumption.

When I buy a car I take into account its overall shape, its interior, its colour, its quality, its manufacturer/dealer back up and warranty, its price, its potential resale value, ease of resale, its performance, its dynamism, its comfort, its perceived durability, its fuel efficiency, its history and brand positioning, its perception by others and how it makes me feel to own. In no particular order and I'm sure I will have missed some.

I made sure I included the last two as I wouldn't want to be hypocritical and all those elements will have a different weighting, which I'm sure will be different for different people.

[sjc]

Blimey Boshly,that's a Hell of a list! ( but no doubt relevant to a lot of people at that price point.

Mine is.. ( for a "drivers/sports car as opposed to a family bus).
Firstly.. can I fit in it..properly? Otherwise all bets are off.
Then
How does it drive?
Is it so ugly I couldn't possibly ever live with it?
How does it drive?
Can I afford it?
How does it drive?
Depreciation ( but only up to a point, and haven't fell out of bed with anything yet)
How does it drive?
Am I excited by it?
How does it drive?

Badge: not interested at all. ( My car history will tell you that!)
Build: not too fussed. ( My TVR history will tell you that, although the Tuscan did make me snap eventually).

Edited by sjc on Thursday 25th August 13:16

[stuttgartmetal]

Turquoise said:

So the Noble is utter utter rubbish? Nothing of merit there at all?

Yup
Horsest
You'd be better off hitting your thumb with a ball pein hammer.

[Europa1]

stuttgartmetal said:

Yup
Horsest
You'd be better off hitting your thumb with a ball pein hammer.

Did a Noble fk your wife or something?

[Turquoise]

stuttgartmetal said:

Turquoise said:

So the Noble is utter utter rubbish? Nothing of merit there at all?

Yup
Horsest
You'd be better off hitting your thumb with a ball pein hammer.

Your posts on this thread today, say far more about you than they do about Noble.

[stuttgartmetal]

How ?
IMO THE Noble is a kit car, built by a company that will fold,and leave you with a car worth f ck all.
To compare it with a Porsche that costs two thirds is utter rubbish.
To say you'd rather have one than a Ferrari or a McLaren shows naivety in the extreme.
I would rather hit my thumb with a ball pein hammer than buy one.

If that says a lot about me, well err, I won't be losing any sleep about it.
At all.

[Equus]

will_ said:

sjc said:

It's a real product, genuinely doing ok against the established names...

Is it though?

I believe this question remains unanswered:

Boshly said:

Are you able to tell us how many cars have been sold to customers?

I've seen a fair few M600s but I get the feeling (I might be wrong) that I might have seen the same car in different colours. Whilst Noble are keen to emphasise that no-one who has bought an M600 has ever sold it, I don't think I've ever seen a confirmation as to precisely how many cars that represents.

I believe that Romans were dealers for Noble until recently - they seem to have been replaced by SVR. Was that because there weren't many (any?) cars being sold?

A quick check on the DVLA data suggests that 3 or 4 (one as a 'Noble M600', three listed as just 'Noble Automotive') have been registered in the UK, and all remain registered.

At least three of these cars (the bronze coupe pictured at the top of this thread, the orange car also pictured at the top of this thread and currently for sale by SVR, and the Speedster development car pictured by Ruttboy on page 8) would appear to remain in Noble's/SVR's control or ownership.

That's the sum total of 4 years' UK production, it would seem: possibly one actual sale?

So...

sjc said:

... What's happened is, they've not had a owner re-sell.

That's not looking like such an impressive statement after all, is it?

You have to have owners, before you can have owners who re-sell.


Of course, they could be selling hundreds a year to China, the Middle East, and the United States, but on balance I think it unlikely.

[sjc]

Equus,
I may obviously be wrong, but I believe it's maybe in the 20's overall.

[Equus]

Is that worldwide?

[Boshly]

sjc said:

Boshly...
A naysayer is just someone who has a constant negative stance or doubts on something.To have those thoughts on something never seen or experience of is naysaying. It's not an insult.
Not sure you had the time to scroll through but the only person who has been called a troll (and fanboy !)is me,by someone who's opinion is apparently always the truth.And you can't have it both ways, by saying you find it difficult to read all the wonderful things by those who haven't bought one ( but have at least knowledge and experience of it) while defending those who slag it when they haven't even seen one ( or probably heard of it until this thread).Anyway, we're going round in circles with that !! If it was anywhere near as bad as some on here who haven't seen it claim,they wouldn't have sold one.. What's happened is, they've not had a owner re-sell. Massively high net worth people who wouldn't put up with a crap/rubbish/kit car product.
As I've said previously,it's not for everyone ( and I was shocked when it first came out over a number of things ( I was on the list for the m14/15, and was gutted when the price when from 75k to 100k to 150 k and then through the stratosphere into the m600 )and my posts from years back on the Noble forum will show I was highly sceptical at the time,but I get it now,it's a completely new car to those, it's a great car (in my opinion ), and it makes much more sense to me now than at launch.
This isn't a mythical speed12. Trident iceni, Farboud, Arash Mk73,or one of Lee Nobles various other projects that haven't got off the ground. It's a real product, doing ok against the established names, and I'm just glad it exists.
Would I buy one ? If my total car budget was circa 300k then maybe not, as the deprecation is too much of an unknown unless I could be convinced otherwise, and a year old 650S would pop out at me with plenty of change.
If I was rich enough to have a bigger budget and a couple of other Supercars ( the demographic SVR suggest is their target market) then I absolutely would.

Edited by sjc on Thursday 25th August 08:36

I've no idea what the actual definition of a naysayer is but I'm sure it's derogatory.

I've also not "defended" anyone in general though I did ask one poster to clarify his post. I do though think you're wrong 'picking on' anyone who dares criticize a car you obviously think highly of. Thus my comment that I find it hard to see etc.

Moving on to the general gist of your post and favourable comments in general; these seem to be based on a lot of assumptions that nobody has managed to verify yet. You keep stating that no owner has ever sold their car - where is the proof or where has this come from? I would state that even if it were true it could be for reasons that are not necessarily positive.

Lastly I reiterate how many have been sold and why aren't there more sold. For some grounding McLaren Sold 375 (I think - and could have sold more) P1's at 3 times the price of an M600 at at time when the McLaren resurgence hadn't really taken place. They sold for a reason and it wasn't profit as at that time McLarens were depreciating considerably though I'm sure there were a few speculators.

So please, no more 'facts' without substance and general comments about only being bought by high net worth individuals just let us know how many have been sold, where they are and why haven't more been sold.

The fact remains it's obviously a great car to drive. If you can overlook or like its design/background/price/interior etc and can afford £300k you may well buy one and be happy. I just dont see many people who have done so and the reason others haven't is NOT because they're ignorant.

ETA I see the how many has now been 'answered' and its 20 at the most.

Edited by Boshly on Thursday 25th August 19:32

[Boshly]

sjc said:

Blimey Boshly,that's a Hell of a list! ( but no doubt relevant to a lot of people at that price point.

Mine is.. ( for a "drivers/sports car as opposed to a family bus).
Firstly.. can I fit in it..properly? Otherwise all bets are off.
Then
How does it drive?
Is it so ugly I couldn't possibly ever live with it?
How does it drive?
Can I afford it?
How does it drive?
Depreciation ( but only up to a point, and haven't fell out of bed with anything yet)
How does it drive?
Am I excited by it?
How does it drive?

Badge: not interested at all. ( My car history will tell you that!)
Build: not too fussed. ( My TVR history will tell you that, although the Tuscan did make me snap eventually).

Edited by sjc on Thursday 25th August 13:16

But you've ever bought a Caterham??