RE: Noble M600 reborn and revisited
Discussion
Ozzie Osmond said:
Understood. However, as with Lotus Evora I think the problems are with the fundamental concept and styling of the car rather than branding or trim details.
Heaven only knows what new-TVR will pull out of the bag but it will have to avoid these mistakes while going head-to-head with some of the world's most successful sportscars. That's a tough call.
I can't quote the rest of your post due to the way the quotes format...Heaven only knows what new-TVR will pull out of the bag but it will have to avoid these mistakes while going head-to-head with some of the world's most successful sportscars. That's a tough call.
Yes I do know how expensive it is to tool up and create bespoke parts, that wasn't my point at all. My point was that past Noble cars have been 'bitsa' cars with other peoples parts are required to save money. This in itself is not a problem at all (even the McLaren F1 had rear lights off a coach!).
It becomes a problem though when you are trying to re-invent yourself in the £300k market. People look at your past cars, and as much as I know how amazing the M12 and M400 are (Would happily own either) they still look very 'kit like' due to obvious shared parts.
I do agree on the Evora point, in fact Lotus is a good comparison here....
Imagine if Lotus launched an amazing supercar tomorrow that was as fast as the other big names, made of Carbon fibre, super engine and performance, rave road tests etc.... and it was £300k. Do you think they would have a long waiting list? It wouldn't at all because Lotus however good they are do not have a good enough 'name' to sell lots at that price bracket. their name is brilliant and linked very closely to the best chassis tuners out there, but It's not the price level people associate their cars with.
Is the Evora 400 flying out of dealerships like the Cayman GT4 did? Or is it struggling to sell at 'just' £72k? As much as I would love to wrong I think it will probably be the latter which is probably why Lotus have not tried the higher price market. (In fact according to figures online the Evora only sold 11 car's in June of this year, that's all variants, not just Evora 400's)
I would argue that the Lotus name is better thought of and more well known for a lot of people than Noble
Agree on TVR too. Based on the excitement that car will need to be amazing... or it will be lots of threads similar to this one where lots of folk talk up how brilliant it is and how we should all get behind it being British etc... but very few actually buy it.
Again, I want it to be a runaway success that they cannot build quick enough, just as I would have liked the M600 to be.
Civpilot said:
I would argue that the Lotus name is better thought of and more well known for a lot of people than Noble
Again, I want it to be a runaway success that they cannot build quick enough, just as I would have liked the M600 to be.
Agreed and agreed. Again, I want it to be a runaway success that they cannot build quick enough, just as I would have liked the M600 to be.
Build it, and they will come. Vitally important to build the right "it".
Hi Chaps,
Sorry for the length of time to reply to your posts, but been away on business so catching up now.
With regards to the question of build numbers for the M600, I can't answer as I genuinely don't know yet....
We are setting up a dealer database in order to set service reminders, updates on the cars and invitations to M600 events, and we are going through the factory records to get this right.
It will take time, but I will get to the bottom of it soon, and then I will tell you.
But again, I state that it is more than I realise, but less than I'd like......
Romans have never been an officially appointed dealer for the M600, at all.
The factory has never appointed a dealer for the car until now.
However, if a dealer wishes to proclaim themselves as being in this position, and the factory was happy with it, which they were, then fair play to them and I understand why they did it. Romans have been very helpful and supportive for the car, and I thank them for that.
However, all reference to the M600 has now been removed at our request because we ARE the first and only Worldwide Factory Appointed Dealer for the car.
And finally, I have just spent the day in the development Speedster with a rather well known car magazine.
WOW!
This car is another step forward and can compete with anything out there.
The Paddleshift system is much like the Aventador's, in that it still feels very mechanical and you still feel connected to the car, the chassis is unbelievably stiff for a open roof, allowing you to push on with no scuttle shake at all, unlike the other cars that had been tested on the same road the week before that have been mentioned on here before about offering more and being better than this car, and it just went faster, even more than the coupe we had along to bench mark against it!
This particular magazine is about to do their biggest, most famous test starting next week, and they begged us to get the development car up to that test, reassuring us that it would be a genuine contender for a top 3 ranking in this test.
It is pleasing when we know how good the car is, but to hear it from one of the best journalists out there, and hear him repeat your claims, it backs up what you are trying to do with the Great British Brand and supports your efforts.
Regards,
Alan.
Sorry for the length of time to reply to your posts, but been away on business so catching up now.
With regards to the question of build numbers for the M600, I can't answer as I genuinely don't know yet....
We are setting up a dealer database in order to set service reminders, updates on the cars and invitations to M600 events, and we are going through the factory records to get this right.
It will take time, but I will get to the bottom of it soon, and then I will tell you.
But again, I state that it is more than I realise, but less than I'd like......
Romans have never been an officially appointed dealer for the M600, at all.
The factory has never appointed a dealer for the car until now.
However, if a dealer wishes to proclaim themselves as being in this position, and the factory was happy with it, which they were, then fair play to them and I understand why they did it. Romans have been very helpful and supportive for the car, and I thank them for that.
However, all reference to the M600 has now been removed at our request because we ARE the first and only Worldwide Factory Appointed Dealer for the car.
And finally, I have just spent the day in the development Speedster with a rather well known car magazine.
WOW!
This car is another step forward and can compete with anything out there.
The Paddleshift system is much like the Aventador's, in that it still feels very mechanical and you still feel connected to the car, the chassis is unbelievably stiff for a open roof, allowing you to push on with no scuttle shake at all, unlike the other cars that had been tested on the same road the week before that have been mentioned on here before about offering more and being better than this car, and it just went faster, even more than the coupe we had along to bench mark against it!
This particular magazine is about to do their biggest, most famous test starting next week, and they begged us to get the development car up to that test, reassuring us that it would be a genuine contender for a top 3 ranking in this test.
It is pleasing when we know how good the car is, but to hear it from one of the best journalists out there, and hear him repeat your claims, it backs up what you are trying to do with the Great British Brand and supports your efforts.
Regards,
Alan.
Ruttboy/Alan thanks for your response and clearing the Romans bit.
You are still being intentionally vague on the numbers though, "more than I realised, less than I'd like..." ah I see .....
You must have a vague rough idea as I cant believe you took on to be "the only officially approved Noble dealership", gearing up for servicing and maintenance without asking "so how many cars have you made?" What do you do about spares in stock? Etc.
So, with your non precise but rough idea how many have been sold 5? 20? 50? 100?
It's a rhetorical question however as I can see that you obviously don't want to disclose the numbers and that's your prerogative.
So moving on, and I am genuinely looking forward to the magazine feature, you insinuate the Roadster has no scuttle shake unlike other cars that have been discussed as rivals. Are you referring to the McLaren there as the carbon tub on the Mac gives it virtually exactly the same structural rigidity of the coupe and a pretty decent USP for a spider against the 458/Hurracan/Aventador in that respect. Is that what you were referring to?
In the photos you show, and the car certainly looks a lot better, what are those bars running across the driver and passengers footwell? Is that functional or just chassis strengthening for the Roadster as I don't recall seeing them before?
Lastly what do you genuinely think of having to drive without having a roof in the roadster? Surely some rain protection is absolutely necessary? Especially in this country. Is there a solution in the Wings?
You are still being intentionally vague on the numbers though, "more than I realised, less than I'd like..." ah I see .....
You must have a vague rough idea as I cant believe you took on to be "the only officially approved Noble dealership", gearing up for servicing and maintenance without asking "so how many cars have you made?" What do you do about spares in stock? Etc.
So, with your non precise but rough idea how many have been sold 5? 20? 50? 100?
It's a rhetorical question however as I can see that you obviously don't want to disclose the numbers and that's your prerogative.
So moving on, and I am genuinely looking forward to the magazine feature, you insinuate the Roadster has no scuttle shake unlike other cars that have been discussed as rivals. Are you referring to the McLaren there as the carbon tub on the Mac gives it virtually exactly the same structural rigidity of the coupe and a pretty decent USP for a spider against the 458/Hurracan/Aventador in that respect. Is that what you were referring to?
In the photos you show, and the car certainly looks a lot better, what are those bars running across the driver and passengers footwell? Is that functional or just chassis strengthening for the Roadster as I don't recall seeing them before?
Lastly what do you genuinely think of having to drive without having a roof in the roadster? Surely some rain protection is absolutely necessary? Especially in this country. Is there a solution in the Wings?
I've been sat very firmly in the "how much???" Camp since the touted relaunch, in the same way as I was back in 2009 when Autocar tested the original blue car back in 2009.
To be constructive, I will say at first glance the interior in the demo strikes me as looking like a better quality productas long as you don't look at any specific detail for too long, and the website is better than it was.
Out of interest, If a car identical in spec to the car used in the photos above was ordered, what would it cost, delivered in the UK?
To be constructive, I will say at first glance the interior in the demo strikes me as looking like a better quality productas long as you don't look at any specific detail for too long, and the website is better than it was.
Out of interest, If a car identical in spec to the car used in the photos above was ordered, what would it cost, delivered in the UK?
Morning Gents,
You are correct in that I am being vague in discussing production numbers as I am still going through it with the factory.
One thing I will never do on a forum is mislead anyone, so I am waiting until I am sure until I give my answer, you only get one chance on the internet.......
The Speedster as tested would retail for £300k, and having had the talk with the journalist in question, he thought that was bang on!
And yes, the rivals I refer to are from the Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini camp.
What surprised me was the absolute confirmation from the driver that these esteemed competitors showed up weaknesses over the same stretch of road that the Noble just didn't. His words, not mine, and trust me, he was going some!
The bars across the footwell are chassis strengthening bars, but they are evident on every Noble since the M12, M400 and the M600. They are still in place because they work, and do not get in the way as they are under your thighs. It has allowed us to develop the Speedster with no addition strengthening at all, and it has just sailed through it's crash test with flying colours.
We, as SVR, are thrilled with the cars coming out of the factory, in their build quality, performance and attention to detail.
We get our new demonstrator on Tuesday and we are excited to get it on the road and demonstrate what Noble is all about.
I will post pics of our demo as soon as it lands.
Cheers,
Alan.
You are correct in that I am being vague in discussing production numbers as I am still going through it with the factory.
One thing I will never do on a forum is mislead anyone, so I am waiting until I am sure until I give my answer, you only get one chance on the internet.......
The Speedster as tested would retail for £300k, and having had the talk with the journalist in question, he thought that was bang on!
And yes, the rivals I refer to are from the Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini camp.
What surprised me was the absolute confirmation from the driver that these esteemed competitors showed up weaknesses over the same stretch of road that the Noble just didn't. His words, not mine, and trust me, he was going some!
The bars across the footwell are chassis strengthening bars, but they are evident on every Noble since the M12, M400 and the M600. They are still in place because they work, and do not get in the way as they are under your thighs. It has allowed us to develop the Speedster with no addition strengthening at all, and it has just sailed through it's crash test with flying colours.
We, as SVR, are thrilled with the cars coming out of the factory, in their build quality, performance and attention to detail.
We get our new demonstrator on Tuesday and we are excited to get it on the road and demonstrate what Noble is all about.
I will post pics of our demo as soon as it lands.
Cheers,
Alan.
Hi Alan
Thanks for your response. You're very diplomatic aren't you
but I must say you do come across well in general so credit where it's due
With regards to the competition and the journalists comments it must be an amazing car indeed. I have ownership experience of a few high end convertibles (911 Turbo S, 16M and now 650s) and can honestly say that the 650 thanks to the carbon tub, is as stiff and rigid as you would want/expect so I can't see that being one of the issues. Also I'm sure the cross frame member does indeed contribute to the M600's stiffness, it's just a little bit ..... hmmm well let's say it would annoy me, and reminds me of the floor pan of my Morgan's rather than anything else.
As I said I look forward to reading the test, though I'm always sceptical of many journalists and their headlining comments (I do however admit to hypocritically lauding them when then fit my own choices and opinions ) and I have known very few journalists who vote with their wallets!
Lastly you seem to have missed my question regarding the roof (or lack of) of the roadster? If unintentional, I'd appreciate your thoughts?
Cheers
Andy
Thanks for your response. You're very diplomatic aren't you
but I must say you do come across well in general so credit where it's due With regards to the competition and the journalists comments it must be an amazing car indeed. I have ownership experience of a few high end convertibles (911 Turbo S, 16M and now 650s) and can honestly say that the 650 thanks to the carbon tub, is as stiff and rigid as you would want/expect so I can't see that being one of the issues. Also I'm sure the cross frame member does indeed contribute to the M600's stiffness, it's just a little bit ..... hmmm well let's say it would annoy me, and reminds me of the floor pan of my Morgan's rather than anything else.
As I said I look forward to reading the test, though I'm always sceptical of many journalists and their headlining comments (I do however admit to hypocritically lauding them when then fit my own choices and opinions
) and I have known very few journalists who vote with their wallets!Lastly you seem to have missed my question regarding the roof (or lack of) of the roadster? If unintentional, I'd appreciate your thoughts?
Cheers
Andy
Boshly said:
Hi Alan
Thanks for your response. You're very diplomatic aren't you but I must say you do come across well in general so credit where it's due
With regards to the competition and the journalists comments it must be an amazing car indeed. I have ownership experience of a few high end convertibles (911 Turbo S, 16M and now 650s) and can honestly say that the 650 thanks to the carbon tub, is as stiff and rigid as you would want/expect so I can't see that being one of the issues. Also I'm sure the cross frame member does indeed contribute to the M600's stiffness, it's just a little bit ..... hmmm well let's say it would annoy me, and reminds me of the floor pan of my Morgan's rather than anything else.
As I said I look forward to reading the test, though I'm always sceptical of many journalists and their headlining comments (I do however admit to hypocritically lauding them when then fit my own choices and opinions ) and I have known very few journalists who vote with their wallets!
Lastly you seem to have missed my question regarding the roof (or lack of) of the roadster? If unintentional, I'd appreciate your thoughts?
Cheers
Andy
and someone said this:Thanks for your response. You're very diplomatic aren't you
but I must say you do come across well in general so credit where it's due With regards to the competition and the journalists comments it must be an amazing car indeed. I have ownership experience of a few high end convertibles (911 Turbo S, 16M and now 650s) and can honestly say that the 650 thanks to the carbon tub, is as stiff and rigid as you would want/expect so I can't see that being one of the issues. Also I'm sure the cross frame member does indeed contribute to the M600's stiffness, it's just a little bit ..... hmmm well let's say it would annoy me, and reminds me of the floor pan of my Morgan's rather than anything else.
As I said I look forward to reading the test, though I'm always sceptical of many journalists and their headlining comments (I do however admit to hypocritically lauding them when then fit my own choices and opinions
) and I have known very few journalists who vote with their wallets!Lastly you seem to have missed my question regarding the roof (or lack of) of the roadster? If unintentional, I'd appreciate your thoughts?
Cheers
Andy
"though to be fair I'm skeptical about motoring journalism per se these days)."
The assessments of cars has become so scattered that often testers miss entire aspects of cars handling.
Boshly said:
Ruttboy/Alan thanks for your response and clearing the Romans bit.
You are still being intentionally vague on the numbers though, "more than I realised, less than I'd like..." ah I see .....
You must have a vague rough idea as I cant believe you took on to be "the only officially approved Noble dealership", gearing up for servicing and maintenance without asking "so how many cars have you made?" What do you do about spares in stock? Etc.
So, with your non precise but rough idea how many have been sold 5? 20? 50? 100?
Noble/SVR had a couple of cars at Peter Saywell's Supercar Track Day at Goodwood recently. You are still being intentionally vague on the numbers though, "more than I realised, less than I'd like..." ah I see .....
You must have a vague rough idea as I cant believe you took on to be "the only officially approved Noble dealership", gearing up for servicing and maintenance without asking "so how many cars have you made?" What do you do about spares in stock? Etc.
So, with your non precise but rough idea how many have been sold 5? 20? 50? 100?
Looking at the chassis number visible through the windscreen it ended 00017
I think that might give a pretty good indication...?
100 IAN said:
Noble/SVR had a couple of cars at Peter Saywell's Supercar Track Day at Goodwood recently.
Looking at the chassis number visible through the windscreen it ended 00017
I think that might give a pretty good indication...?
Thanks Ian, very helpful Looking at the chassis number visible through the windscreen it ended 00017
I think that might give a pretty good indication...?
That'll be the day I stayed behind at the service station with Brad and ended up with a £100 fine for overstaying the 2 hour limit, helping Parking Eye top up their profits
Boshly said:
Thanks Ian, very helpful
That'll be the day I stayed behind at the service station with Brad and ended up with a £100 fine for overstaying the 2 hour limit, helping Parking Eye top up their profits
Sorry to hear about the ticket but have a look here it specifically details parking tickets in that location. http://www.peasepottage.info/moto-service-stationThat'll be the day I stayed behind at the service station with Brad and ended up with a £100 fine for overstaying the 2 hour limit, helping Parking Eye top up their profits
ps I wonder what the couple who'd camped and were rudely awoken by 30+ Supercars thought...they must've got a ticket as well
Hi Chaps,
I'll be brief with this one as I've got some people to see in a minute.
But, to answer your questions;
The roof arrangement is, at the moment a leave it at home removable panel. We are creating a really nicely finished fabric roof to get you home and allow 80 mph driving. Think easier Lotus Elise or Murcielago Roadster roof and you'll get the idea. Although our arrangement will be of better quality and easier to fit.
I cannot say which magazine the car will be featured in due to and embargo protecting the intellectual property of the article. They have an exclusive first drive in a monthly title, and we think that this magazine is the right one to feature a drivers car.....but when I can, I will let you know so you don't miss it.
You are correct in assuming that the orange car you would have seen at the Peter Saywell day is chassis #17, but this car is now 5 years old and has 43,000 miles on it.
We have built a few more since then.
Boshly, thanks for your comments. You can never be rude on a public forum when you do what we do. I never know when I might bump into someone who has read something I have put, and I realise that I am extremely lucky to earn a living from this and respect anyone who invests their own time and money, such as yourself. It's another reason I will always answer, to the best of my ability, any question asked of me.
The main competitors mentioned by the journalist and their dynamic shortcomings were our Italian rivals, not McLaren, whom again I state have hit the nail firmly on the head with their latest cars. But, I again say that the McLaren cannot offer such a visceral experience that the M600 can. This point was agreed with by the journalist in question, over the very same stretch of road.
And with regards to the chassis brace, I know what you mean, not our finest design detail, and one that I am working on.
Chaps, thanks for your comments, keep them coming, and please feel free to pop in to the showroom any time you like.
Alan.
Edited because I am an idiot!
I'll be brief with this one as I've got some people to see in a minute.
But, to answer your questions;
The roof arrangement is, at the moment a leave it at home removable panel. We are creating a really nicely finished fabric roof to get you home and allow 80 mph driving. Think easier Lotus Elise or Murcielago Roadster roof and you'll get the idea. Although our arrangement will be of better quality and easier to fit.
I cannot say which magazine the car will be featured in due to and embargo protecting the intellectual property of the article. They have an exclusive first drive in a monthly title, and we think that this magazine is the right one to feature a drivers car.....but when I can, I will let you know so you don't miss it.
You are correct in assuming that the orange car you would have seen at the Peter Saywell day is chassis #17, but this car is now 5 years old and has 43,000 miles on it.
We have built a few more since then.
Boshly, thanks for your comments. You can never be rude on a public forum when you do what we do. I never know when I might bump into someone who has read something I have put, and I realise that I am extremely lucky to earn a living from this and respect anyone who invests their own time and money, such as yourself. It's another reason I will always answer, to the best of my ability, any question asked of me.
The main competitors mentioned by the journalist and their dynamic shortcomings were our Italian rivals, not McLaren, whom again I state have hit the nail firmly on the head with their latest cars. But, I again say that the McLaren cannot offer such a visceral experience that the M600 can. This point was agreed with by the journalist in question, over the very same stretch of road.
And with regards to the chassis brace, I know what you mean, not our finest design detail, and one that I am working on.
Chaps, thanks for your comments, keep them coming, and please feel free to pop in to the showroom any time you like.
Alan.
Edited because I am an idiot!
Edited by ruttboy on Monday 12th September 16:39
I was trying to get a pic of that terrible plasticy blue car used for the launch to see how the newer ones compared and I had a look at the website. It really does position the car as something special, though some harder points on the 'speed and handling' prowess would really add to it. An ECOTY placing for example..
Some of the pics are lovely http://www.noblecars.com/
Some of the pics are lovely http://www.noblecars.com/
ruttboy said:
Hi Chaps,
I'll be brief with this one as I've got some people to see in a minute.
But, to answer your questions;
The roof arrangement is, at the moment a leave it at home removable panel. We are creating a really nicely finished fabric roof to get you home and allow 80 mph driving. Think easier Lotus Elise or Murcielago Roadster roof and you'll get the idea. Although our arrangement will be of better quality and easier to fit.
I cannot say which magazine the car will be featured in due to and embargo protecting the intellectual property of the article. They have an exclusive first drive in a monthly title, and we think that this magazine is the right one to feature a drivers car.....but when I can, I will let you know so you don't miss it.
You are correct in assuming that the orange car you would have seen at the Peter Saywell day is chassis #17, but this car is now 5 years old and has 43,000 miles on it.
We have built a few more since then.
Boshly, thanks for your comments. You can never be rude on a public forum when you do what we do. I never know when I might bump into someone who has read something I have put, and I realise that I am extremely lucky to earn a living from this and respect anyone who invests their own time and money, such as yourself. It's another reason I will always answer, to the best of my ability, any question asked of me.
The main competitors mentioned by the journalist and their dynamic shortcomings were our Italian rivals, not McLaren, whom again I state have hit the nail firmly on the head with their latest cars. But, I again say that the McLaren cannot offer such a visceral experience that the M600 can. This point was agreed with by the journalist in question, over the very same stretch of road.
And with regards to the chassis brace, I know what you mean, not our finest design detail, and one that I am working on.
Chaps, thanks for your comments, keep them coming, and please feel free to pop in to the showroom any time you like.
Alan.
Edited because I am an idiot!
Its refreshing to read some honest replies to customer queries/questions/perceptions. This can only benefit all concerned.I'll be brief with this one as I've got some people to see in a minute.
But, to answer your questions;
The roof arrangement is, at the moment a leave it at home removable panel. We are creating a really nicely finished fabric roof to get you home and allow 80 mph driving. Think easier Lotus Elise or Murcielago Roadster roof and you'll get the idea. Although our arrangement will be of better quality and easier to fit.
I cannot say which magazine the car will be featured in due to and embargo protecting the intellectual property of the article. They have an exclusive first drive in a monthly title, and we think that this magazine is the right one to feature a drivers car.....but when I can, I will let you know so you don't miss it.
You are correct in assuming that the orange car you would have seen at the Peter Saywell day is chassis #17, but this car is now 5 years old and has 43,000 miles on it.
We have built a few more since then.
Boshly, thanks for your comments. You can never be rude on a public forum when you do what we do. I never know when I might bump into someone who has read something I have put, and I realise that I am extremely lucky to earn a living from this and respect anyone who invests their own time and money, such as yourself. It's another reason I will always answer, to the best of my ability, any question asked of me.
The main competitors mentioned by the journalist and their dynamic shortcomings were our Italian rivals, not McLaren, whom again I state have hit the nail firmly on the head with their latest cars. But, I again say that the McLaren cannot offer such a visceral experience that the M600 can. This point was agreed with by the journalist in question, over the very same stretch of road.
And with regards to the chassis brace, I know what you mean, not our finest design detail, and one that I am working on.
Chaps, thanks for your comments, keep them coming, and please feel free to pop in to the showroom any time you like.
Alan.
Edited because I am an idiot!
Edited by ruttboy on Monday 12th September 16:39
Manufacturers can only make the cars we want if they know what we genuinely like & dislike about their products, and having a dialog with genuine enthusiasts and potential owners is the best way of achieving this.
Its clearly easier for a small company to react, and obviously you can't please everyone all the time, but the big boy's stance of 'we know best' can leave a bad taste associated with their often incredible [but not perfect] products.
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