RE: Noble M600 reborn and revisited
Discussion
ruttboy said:
You are correct in that I am being vague in discussing production numbers as I am still going through it with the factory.
One thing I will never do on a forum is mislead anyone, so I am waiting until I am sure until I give my answer, you only get one chance on the internet.......
You're absolutely right with that approach Alan, but is there really that much to "go through" that it takes weeks to get a straight answer?One thing I will never do on a forum is mislead anyone, so I am waiting until I am sure until I give my answer, you only get one chance on the internet.......
I'd be amazed if there wasn't an accurate number immediately to hand, because it simply can't be that big.
RumbleOfThunder said:
So the big selling point is its manly, hairy chested analogueyness, but it now has a paddleshift gearbox?
I agree - I don't get that decision.If the USP of the M600 is that it is different to all the others, surely one absolutely key part of that strategy is that it has a manual box?
What was the thought process behind the paddle-shift Alan?
ruttboy said:
I cannot say which magazine the car will be featured in due to and embargo protecting the intellectual property of the article. They have an exclusive first drive in a monthly title, and we think that this magazine is the right one to feature a drivers car.....but when I can, I will let you know so you don't miss it.
Noble themselves have less trouble disclosing which magazine it is. On their Instagram feed is a very nice picture of the Speedster, taken on Bruntingthorpe Aerodrome, with the following message:'Had a fun day with #evo #magazine, look out for the #noble #speedster feature!'
I sure will!
(So I was right about it being EVO Magazine
I really do hope the Speedster will feature in their ECOTY as well 
, 7 years after the baby blue took 3rd place in the 2009 ECOTY)Edited by vincegail on Wednesday 14th September 19:31
jl4069 said:
Boshly said:
Hi Alan
Thanks for your response. You're very diplomatic aren't you but I must say you do come across well in general so credit where it's due 
With regards to the competition and the journalists comments it must be an amazing car indeed. I have ownership experience of a few high end convertibles (911 Turbo S, 16M and now 650s) and can honestly say that the 650 thanks to the carbon tub, is as stiff and rigid as you would want/expect so I can't see that being one of the issues. Also I'm sure the cross frame member does indeed contribute to the M600's stiffness, it's just a little bit ..... hmmm well let's say it would annoy me, and reminds me of the floor pan of my Morgan's rather than anything else.
As I said I look forward to reading the test, though I'm always sceptical of many journalists and their headlining comments (I do however admit to hypocritically lauding them when then fit my own choices and opinions ) and I have known very few journalists who vote with their wallets!
Lastly you seem to have missed my question regarding the roof (or lack of) of the roadster? If unintentional, I'd appreciate your thoughts?
Cheers
Andy
and someone said this:Thanks for your response. You're very diplomatic aren't you
but I must say you do come across well in general so credit where it's due With regards to the competition and the journalists comments it must be an amazing car indeed. I have ownership experience of a few high end convertibles (911 Turbo S, 16M and now 650s) and can honestly say that the 650 thanks to the carbon tub, is as stiff and rigid as you would want/expect so I can't see that being one of the issues. Also I'm sure the cross frame member does indeed contribute to the M600's stiffness, it's just a little bit ..... hmmm well let's say it would annoy me, and reminds me of the floor pan of my Morgan's rather than anything else.
As I said I look forward to reading the test, though I'm always sceptical of many journalists and their headlining comments (I do however admit to hypocritically lauding them when then fit my own choices and opinions
) and I have known very few journalists who vote with their wallets!Lastly you seem to have missed my question regarding the roof (or lack of) of the roadster? If unintentional, I'd appreciate your thoughts?
Cheers
Andy
"though to be fair I'm skeptical about motoring journalism per se these days)."
The assessments of cars has become so scattered that often testers miss entire aspects of cars handling.
Hi chaps,
Sorry about the confusion, I didn't know that EVO had given us the OK to promote the forthcoming feature, so yes, EVO it is.
Unfortunately the Speedster just isn't ready for COTY, but it will be next year!
And you are correct, there isn't a huge amount to go through with the factory, but at the moment I am juggling quite a few plates and haven't had the chance to give this the attention it deserves.
You'll see why at Christmas.
The rationale to develop the paddleshift system is the same as all of the other larger volume manufacturers in that it is what the majority of customers want.......
If we are to expand the sales base of this fantastic car, then we have to react to the wider audience, but, and it is a big BUT, Noble will always offer the manual gearbox as standard and has no plans to get rid of it in the future.
It goes with what Noble stand for, so we develop it and see where it takes us.
If we are looking at the other markets available to us, there are many things that we are looking at developing which will allow us to move the sales forward as we hope, so watch this space, but if you want the manual, you can have the manual!
Cheers,
Alan.
Sorry about the confusion, I didn't know that EVO had given us the OK to promote the forthcoming feature, so yes, EVO it is.
Unfortunately the Speedster just isn't ready for COTY, but it will be next year!
And you are correct, there isn't a huge amount to go through with the factory, but at the moment I am juggling quite a few plates and haven't had the chance to give this the attention it deserves.
You'll see why at Christmas.
The rationale to develop the paddleshift system is the same as all of the other larger volume manufacturers in that it is what the majority of customers want.......
If we are to expand the sales base of this fantastic car, then we have to react to the wider audience, but, and it is a big BUT, Noble will always offer the manual gearbox as standard and has no plans to get rid of it in the future.
It goes with what Noble stand for, so we develop it and see where it takes us.
If we are looking at the other markets available to us, there are many things that we are looking at developing which will allow us to move the sales forward as we hope, so watch this space, but if you want the manual, you can have the manual!
Cheers,
Alan.
I am starting to think we are all approaching this far too cynically, maybe Noble have simply sold so many of these that they have literally lost count!
I think adding the option of a dual clutch is a sensible move. In the interest of expanding the potential customer base, are they considering adding other previously frowned upon options like ABS and traction control also?
I think adding the option of a dual clutch is a sensible move. In the interest of expanding the potential customer base, are they considering adding other previously frowned upon options like ABS and traction control also?
Mezzanine said:
I am starting to think we are all approaching this far too cynically, maybe Noble have simply sold so many of these that they have literally lost count!
Maybe. Or maybe it's so few that they are embarrassed to say?Despite no doubt Alan having plenty to do, the longer this question remains unanswered the worse it looks. Maybe they're waiting to sell a few more cars before confirming? I'm afraid it's just not credible to me that a number isn't immediately to hand.
I note that Zenos appear to have no such difficulties:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
will_ said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
So the big selling point is its manly, hairy chested analogueyness, but it now has a paddleshift gearbox?
I agree - I don't get that decision.If the USP of the M600 is that it is different to all the others, surely one absolutely key part of that strategy is that it has a manual box?
What was the thought process behind the paddle-shift Alan?
Odd it's USPwas clearly the manual.
Bizarre and I will say the roadster certainly looks good inside and out.
What's the chassis number of the carbon bodied spider version? Its probably sitting outside or in the workshop, Alan only has to go and look through the screen and read the last few digits.
If its out with a journo or otherwise not on site just look at the paperwork - V5, 'invoice' from the factory etc which are probably in the filing cabinet in your office.
When I spoke to Peter Boutwood at Goodwood after he'd been out on track, I asked him how many had been sold and he said they could comfortably make 10 a year (not 'had' but 'could'), that's when I had a glance through the screen and saw the car's chassis number was 17.
Alan says that car is now 5 years old which is fair enough, but I also looked at the chassis number of the spider. I didn't post it because I can't remember exactly what it was but I think it was in the low 20's [and probably includes the prototype/development cars which probably were never sold(?)]
I really like Noble, but a toss up between spending £200k on one with little in the way of driver aids/modern technology, or £200k on a McLaren fulled to the brim with the very best technology on offer.... you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
A handful of people have chosen Noble and circa 40+ times as many have chosen McL (assuming all Nobles have remained in the UK, which I suspect they haven't).
If its out with a journo or otherwise not on site just look at the paperwork - V5, 'invoice' from the factory etc which are probably in the filing cabinet in your office.
When I spoke to Peter Boutwood at Goodwood after he'd been out on track, I asked him how many had been sold and he said they could comfortably make 10 a year (not 'had' but 'could'), that's when I had a glance through the screen and saw the car's chassis number was 17.
Alan says that car is now 5 years old which is fair enough, but I also looked at the chassis number of the spider. I didn't post it because I can't remember exactly what it was but I think it was in the low 20's [and probably includes the prototype/development cars which probably were never sold(?)]
I really like Noble, but a toss up between spending £200k on one with little in the way of driver aids/modern technology, or £200k on a McLaren fulled to the brim with the very best technology on offer.... you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
A handful of people have chosen Noble and circa 40+ times as many have chosen McL (assuming all Nobles have remained in the UK, which I suspect they haven't).
will_ said:
Mezzanine said:
I am starting to think we are all approaching this far too cynically, maybe Noble have simply sold so many of these that they have literally lost count!
Maybe. Or maybe it's so few that they are embarrassed to say?Despite no doubt Alan having plenty to do, the longer this question remains unanswered the worse it looks. Maybe they're waiting to sell a few more cars before confirming? I'm afraid it's just not credible to me that a number isn't immediately to hand.
I note that Zenos appear to have no such difficulties:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Remember, it's just like an F40!
100 IAN said:
What's the chassis number of the carbon bodied spider version? Its probably sitting outside or in the workshop, Alan only has to go and look through the screen and read the last few digits.
If its out with a journo or otherwise not on site just look at the paperwork - V5, 'invoice' from the factory etc which are probably in the filing cabinet in your office.
When I spoke to Peter Boutwood at Goodwood after he'd been out on track, I asked him how many had been sold and he said they could comfortably make 10 a year (not 'had' but 'could'), that's when I had a glance through the screen and saw the car's chassis number was 17.
Alan says that car is now 5 years old which is fair enough, but I also looked at the chassis number of the spider. I didn't post it because I can't remember exactly what it was but I think it was in the low 20's [and probably includes the prototype/development cars which probably were never sold(?)]
I really like Noble, but a toss up between spending £200k on one with little in the way of driver aids/modern technology, or £200k on a McLaren fulled to the brim with the very best technology on offer.... you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
A handful of people have chosen Noble and circa 40+ times as many have chosen McL (assuming all Nobles have remained in the UK, which I suspect they haven't).
What's it matter to you exactly how many they've sold or haven't sold.If its out with a journo or otherwise not on site just look at the paperwork - V5, 'invoice' from the factory etc which are probably in the filing cabinet in your office.
When I spoke to Peter Boutwood at Goodwood after he'd been out on track, I asked him how many had been sold and he said they could comfortably make 10 a year (not 'had' but 'could'), that's when I had a glance through the screen and saw the car's chassis number was 17.
Alan says that car is now 5 years old which is fair enough, but I also looked at the chassis number of the spider. I didn't post it because I can't remember exactly what it was but I think it was in the low 20's [and probably includes the prototype/development cars which probably were never sold(?)]
I really like Noble, but a toss up between spending £200k on one with little in the way of driver aids/modern technology, or £200k on a McLaren fulled to the brim with the very best technology on offer.... you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
A handful of people have chosen Noble and circa 40+ times as many have chosen McL (assuming all Nobles have remained in the UK, which I suspect they haven't).
I've been critical myself of the pricing but I don't want to grind them into the ground ffs.
will_ said:
I note that Zenos appear to have no such difficulties:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Although 67 cars per year, at their end of the market, is hardly earth-shattering.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
By comparison, Lotus sold 2,135 Elises during their first full year of production, and 2,567 over roughly the equivalent period that it's taken Zenos to sell 100.
will_ said:
I note that Zenos appear to have no such difficulties:
You can buy SEVEN Zenos for the price of a Noble. Or to put it another way, if Noble have sold 14 cars they're ahead of Zenos selling 100.
Whatever market Noble is selling into it's certainly not the Ariel/Zenos/KTM/Lotus/Caterham £40k trackday toy market.
100 IAN said:
I really like Noble, but a toss up between spending £200k on one with little in the way of driver aids/modern technology, or £200k on a McLaren fulled to the brim with the very best technology on offer.... you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
The cars available today between £100k and £200k are so amazing that it's far from clear to me there's an "over £200k" market of any scale at all. Sure, the Italians will sell you a nice car but beyond that it's either bloated plutobarges or highly ornamented stuff from Koenigsegg and Pagani. IMO the failure of Spyker shows just how risky it is to take on the big boys in or near their own backyard. And then there's laughable cars like the Bristol Bullet which are also trying to reach the same tiny handful of "wilfully different" customers. If any of these cars sold in the numbers the makers want to sell they would no longer be of interest to the "wilfully different". That's the crazy thing.
swisstoni said:
What's it matter to you exactly how many they've sold or haven't sold.
I've been critical myself of the pricing but I don't want to grind them into the ground ffs.
I think "grind them into the ground" is a bit strong. I certainly don't want to do anything to harm their business and genuinely want them to succeed.I've been critical myself of the pricing but I don't want to grind them into the ground ffs.
There is however real value in knowing how successful a company has been at selling their products as it give confidence that there's both a market for their product, there-by ensuring a 2nd hand demand for when the time comes that you want to sell, and that there's a reliable supply of parts when/if needed.
I appreciate that a lower than expected number might put prospective buyers off, but likewise a higher than expected number can fuel further sales. Am I the only one having just read the Xenos review to be thinking "Wow, need to read more about that"?, which could generate a few orders for Xenos.
The tide of market opinion affects all business' and can be cruel, but that's not the same "wanting to grind them into the ground"
Equus said:
will_ said:
I note that Zenos appear to have no such difficulties:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Although 67 cars per year, at their end of the market, is hardly earth-shattering.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
By comparison, Lotus sold 2,135 Elises during their first full year of production, and 2,567 over roughly the equivalent period that it's taken Zenos to sell 100.
Ozzie Osmond said:
will_ said:
I note that Zenos appear to have no such difficulties:
You can buy SEVEN Zenos for the price of a Noble. Or to put it another way, if Noble have sold 14 cars they're ahead of Zenos selling 100.
Whatever market Noble is selling into it's certainly not the Ariel/Zenos/KTM/Lotus/Caterham £40k trackday toy market.
swisstoni said:
What's it matter to you exactly how many they've sold or haven't sold.
I've been critical myself of the pricing but I don't want to grind them into the ground ffs.
To me, it doesn't matter how many have been sold. It's the fact that the question has lingered, unanswered in any substantive way, for some weeks which suggests that they just don't want to (as opposed to can't) answer. In which case, just say so, surely?I've been critical myself of the pricing but I don't want to grind them into the ground ffs.
I'm no business expert, but one thing for sure is that Noble is alive & appears well. I've heard no rumours they are in financial trouble. So surely it must follow they are selling enough cars then? Something keeps them afloat and being as they only have the M600, it must be selling somewhere. Whether that means massive profit per sale, I wouldn't like to say. But if it pays the bills, then good luck to them.
Sorry chaps,
I am not wilfully keeping the production numbers to myself.
I have been organising a huge event which starts tomorrow, can't say what it is, I'm under a press embargo, but you'll see what it is at Christmas.
As a result, chasing Noble has been on the back seat for this information.
However, our new demonstrator has chassis plate #24 on it.
This does not however include any specials that have been built, any track cars that have been built, any of the factory press cars or speedsters, or Carbon Sports, this is just what is on the dash board of our car which is a standard, built to order new 66 plate M600.
And I can't just pop down to see the chassis plate on the speedster as it is in Leicester and the showroom is in High Wycombe, so sorry, but I can't help you there.
I do know that there are specials, track cars, Carbon Sports and such like that I need to track down, and this is what will take the time. The production cars are all done, but, for example, I have now found a car in the UAE that I was unaware of.....so I need some more information before I will confirm absolutely the full production numbers.
Rightly or wrongly, our competitors sell hundreds more cars than we do, for a variety of reasons.
Good luck to them, there are some stunning choices out there.
However, we have been appointed as the sole dealer for the car, so beyond what I can say, you have to trust that we have every intention of getting the car to a larger audience and moving the Noble story forward.
And if Peter comments that he can build us 10 cars comfortably a year, then 10 cars a year will be it.
We are just happy that we are selling this great product and customers who have driven it are loving it.
Thanks Chaps, keep them coming, although I am in Italy now for some time so won't get back to this for a couple of weeks.
Cheers,
Alan.
I am not wilfully keeping the production numbers to myself.
I have been organising a huge event which starts tomorrow, can't say what it is, I'm under a press embargo, but you'll see what it is at Christmas.
As a result, chasing Noble has been on the back seat for this information.
However, our new demonstrator has chassis plate #24 on it.
This does not however include any specials that have been built, any track cars that have been built, any of the factory press cars or speedsters, or Carbon Sports, this is just what is on the dash board of our car which is a standard, built to order new 66 plate M600.
And I can't just pop down to see the chassis plate on the speedster as it is in Leicester and the showroom is in High Wycombe, so sorry, but I can't help you there.
I do know that there are specials, track cars, Carbon Sports and such like that I need to track down, and this is what will take the time. The production cars are all done, but, for example, I have now found a car in the UAE that I was unaware of.....so I need some more information before I will confirm absolutely the full production numbers.
Rightly or wrongly, our competitors sell hundreds more cars than we do, for a variety of reasons.
Good luck to them, there are some stunning choices out there.
However, we have been appointed as the sole dealer for the car, so beyond what I can say, you have to trust that we have every intention of getting the car to a larger audience and moving the Noble story forward.
And if Peter comments that he can build us 10 cars comfortably a year, then 10 cars a year will be it.
We are just happy that we are selling this great product and customers who have driven it are loving it.
Thanks Chaps, keep them coming, although I am in Italy now for some time so won't get back to this for a couple of weeks.
Cheers,
Alan.
ruttboy said:
If I had £250k to spend on a car, the Noble would be seriously in the running. The McL is repeatedly said to be a touch clinical and cold in reviews, the Ferrari is the obvious choice, the Lambo has lost a bit of it's crazy Lambo character so the Noble would be firmly in the running as a car to scare the living daylights out of myself.
If I had spent the money on a small production car like that though, I'd not want Noble spreading build/chassis numbers on an internet forum though in case some creepy internet weirdo does their weirdo thing and starts trying to track the car down. Don't know why a bunch of people who will never be able to afford to buy one care so much about chassis/build numbers and how many have been sold. Noble haven't been reported as in any financial trouble, they've just struck a deal to address the distribution problems and it's getting much more press.
Setting a a blistering time on the 'ring is probably the last stepping stone to success. If they can trounce the Ferrari/Lambo/McL etc. round the ring, their selling point is being a Ferrari eater. A great selling point for rich dudes that want to willy wave.
Definite lottery win car, especially with the roof cut off! Power to them, I hope they can shift a few more, get more market power and possibly use that money to start attacking the £100k~ market with another car.
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