RE: Noble M600 reborn and revisited
Discussion
Ozzie Osmond said:
bimbeano said:
toppstuff said:
The Noble is really something people into classic cars may buy if they wanted something new. It appeals to a completely different set of priorities.
Yep ! Spot on !!! I am seriously into classic cars. If I had more money, I would be in deep. But I know plenty of people who have dropped lots and lots of money ( nice farmhouse with a pool and acres of land money ) into cars that they love. Modern sportscars with auto boxes lack character for them. They just don't buy them. These are people with pre-war Bentleys, a Daytona and a DB5 in the garage.
I am pretty certain these sort of buyers would definitely "get" the Noble M600. It is right up their street. Problem is that none of them have really seen one. Thats down to Noble's marketing - they really should target this kind of buyer IMO. They should be able to sell a few dozen a year to such people and that would be a big increase for them.
I think that people who are comparing the car against a Ferrari or McLaren, saying it ( rather obviously ) comes up short and therefore they would not buy one and therefore it is a waste of time ( to paraphrase ) are missing the point.
For your "average" buyer of a Ferrari or McLaren, it will not be their only car, but just one of a collection. These people ( and I am sadly not one ) are looking for different cars for different drives and moods. If anything, from what I have read, the Modena and Woking cars are, if anything, too similar, covering most of the bases equally well most of the time.
The Noble has a place when these people are looking to drive something different. You can easily see why, given the resources, you may well want one of these to sit alongside your 488 or whatever.
However, I do agree with other comments that while the Noble is undoubtedly a fine beast, the team there have not done a great job keeping it in the public's mind ( or, more importantly, the super premium buyers mind ). It has rather dropped of the radar - I hope this and the new targa can help but it can't be easy to do much when only selling a handful of cars a year....
For your "average" buyer of a Ferrari or McLaren, it will not be their only car, but just one of a collection. These people ( and I am sadly not one ) are looking for different cars for different drives and moods. If anything, from what I have read, the Modena and Woking cars are, if anything, too similar, covering most of the bases equally well most of the time.
The Noble has a place when these people are looking to drive something different. You can easily see why, given the resources, you may well want one of these to sit alongside your 488 or whatever.
However, I do agree with other comments that while the Noble is undoubtedly a fine beast, the team there have not done a great job keeping it in the public's mind ( or, more importantly, the super premium buyers mind ). It has rather dropped of the radar - I hope this and the new targa can help but it can't be easy to do much when only selling a handful of cars a year....
Reading this thread, the ratio of people who'd buy one to people who wouldn't seems to be around 1:2 - that's pretty good (especially as an awful lot of those 2s would change their minds pretty quickly if they borrowed one for a day). If we start threads on the relative merits of the 458, the 650S, etc. I doubt they would score much higher. Why? Because we all have different tastes. There's more than enough merit to the m600 for it to sell at this price in sufficient numbers: perhaps the Wonder Woman movie will give it the kick it needs in terms of public awareness. I want noble to makes lots of money and then design something else I CAN afford.
Edited by macky17 on Friday 5th August 09:26
There are a lot of people on here who are declaring their undying love for the M600, however as most of us are probably people of modest means it's easy to say what you would and wouldn't have when you aren't actually putting down hard cash. Given the actual opportunity to buy, I'm sure most people's enthusiasm for the car would diminish once they got behind the wheel of any established supercar manufacturer product. They can all deliver the same (most probably better) performance, fit and finish, and reliability while also throwing in better provenance and looks. Let's be honest as awesome as it does look, it's no *insert top brand name here* and most definitely has a whiff of garden shed about it. And I think that's the problem - when it comes down to the hard sell, most people would opt for the mainstream brands. Belonging to a world of posers buying the latest en vogue garage queens, a six year old design isn't going to have much swaying power.
Me? I'd certainly give it a shot. I love the car, but without being in the position to buy I can't say I'd have one.
However, as a said man of modest means looking through the oh-so-thick window of Noble's shop front makes me think one thing: gimme gimme gimme!
Me? I'd certainly give it a shot. I love the car, but without being in the position to buy I can't say I'd have one.
However, as a said man of modest means looking through the oh-so-thick window of Noble's shop front makes me think one thing: gimme gimme gimme!
Alias218 said:
There are a lot of people on here who are declaring their undying love for the M600, however as most of us are probably people of modest means it's easy to say what you would and wouldn't have when you aren't actually putting down hard cash. Given the actual opportunity to buy, I'm sure most people's enthusiasm for the car would diminish once they got behind the wheel of any established supercar manufacturer product. They can all deliver the same (most probably better) performance, fit and finish, and reliability while also throwing in better provenance and looks. Let's be honest as awesome as it does look, it's no *insert top brand name here* and most definitely has a whiff of garden shed about it. And I think that's the problem - when it comes down to the hard sell, most people would opt for the mainstream brands. Belonging to a world of posers buying the latest en vogue garage queens, a six year old design isn't going to have much swaying power.
Me? I'd certainly give it a shot. I love the car, but without being in the position to buy I can't say I'd have one.
However, as a said man of modest means looking through the oh-so-thick window of Noble's shop front makes me think one thing: gimme gimme gimme!
I remember reading on the last thread about Noble about a chap who was in the position to buy one, went and had a look at it, loved the engineering and performance, but when it came down to it, it's too much money to drop on a product where there is no idea what sort of residual value it will have and also, with a distinct lack of sales, where is the company going to be in a few years. Whats the point of spending close to 300K on something where the company might no longer be in business.Me? I'd certainly give it a shot. I love the car, but without being in the position to buy I can't say I'd have one.
However, as a said man of modest means looking through the oh-so-thick window of Noble's shop front makes me think one thing: gimme gimme gimme!
I genuinely think that at the pricepoint it is, it's a no mans land for selling cars. The game has moved on dramatically in the last 15 years that you really can't take on the big boys. I reckon the sub 80K sportscar is where Noble should be along with TVR and Lotus and Morgan.
Ozzie Osmond said:
saxy said:
Most supercar buyers are posers. A brand that nobody knows is worthless to many people, especially girls.
Sorry buddy, that's the same excuse made very time a car doesn't cut the mustard. Makes you wonder how McLaren has managed to rise from a standing start to become one of the world's leading supercar builders. Get the product/price right and customers will come.Noble started out at a time when the name "Noble" was closely associated in the public's mind with Richard Noble, then world speed record holder (irrespective of the fact there was no actual connection) and this undoubtedly helped get things started. Since then they've lost their way - someone said losing money on every M400 sold. It was very high risk to try to solve that problem by launching a grossly expensive car which none of their existing customers would be able to afford.
Mind you the Mclaren embarrasses Ferraris and Porsches, has a carbon tub, and many driver aids. It even rides more comfortably than any supercar before.
I'd love to have a go in one...
....then hand them the keys back, because simply I'd not want to own it.
Therin lies the problem - not enough emotional appeal to forgive its low-tech sales stance (especially in the rarified atmosphere of 200K). Maybe it would sell if it had a track pedigree
....then hand them the keys back, because simply I'd not want to own it.
Therin lies the problem - not enough emotional appeal to forgive its low-tech sales stance (especially in the rarified atmosphere of 200K). Maybe it would sell if it had a track pedigree
I really want one!
However - I think the main issue here is the fact that you can buy the other one (M12) for just over £30k now, and the other-other one (M400) for £50-£60k... now I know the used vs new comparison doesn't usually work but if you're after a track car and a Noble specifically then those seem like a much better option.
The £200k+ category is not really where the large trackday audience is found - instead there are many more types of vehicles to tempt your money away.
Lots of discussion on here about the Ferrari/Mclaren choices if you want to combine posing around with the odd track day, but also some very fine classics to be found in this price range if you're just after an "interesting" car, and in terms of pure track toys you're into actual competition spec vehicles at this price point.
From the press release it seems they are mainly looking at the trackday audience...but that takes us back to the second hand Noble market, at 1/10th to 1/5th of the price.. Confusing!
However - I think the main issue here is the fact that you can buy the other one (M12) for just over £30k now, and the other-other one (M400) for £50-£60k... now I know the used vs new comparison doesn't usually work but if you're after a track car and a Noble specifically then those seem like a much better option.
The £200k+ category is not really where the large trackday audience is found - instead there are many more types of vehicles to tempt your money away.
Lots of discussion on here about the Ferrari/Mclaren choices if you want to combine posing around with the odd track day, but also some very fine classics to be found in this price range if you're just after an "interesting" car, and in terms of pure track toys you're into actual competition spec vehicles at this price point.
From the press release it seems they are mainly looking at the trackday audience...but that takes us back to the second hand Noble market, at 1/10th to 1/5th of the price.. Confusing!
dpop said:
I really want one!
However - I think the main issue here is the fact that you can buy the other one (M12) for just over £30k now, and the other-other one (M400) for £50-£60k... now I know the used vs new comparison doesn't usually work but if you're after a track car and a Noble specifically then those seem like a much better option.
The £200k+ category is not really where the large trackday audience is found - instead there are many more types of vehicles to tempt your money away.
Lots of discussion on here about the Ferrari/Mclaren choices if you want to combine posing around with the odd track day, but also some very fine classics to be found in this price range if you're just after an "interesting" car, and in terms of pure track toys you're into actual competition spec vehicles at this price point.
From the press release it seems they are mainly looking at the trackday audience...but that takes us back to the second hand Noble market, at 1/10th to 1/5th of the price.. Confusing!
This is NOT targeted at track day users. Although no doubt it would be pretty good fun.However - I think the main issue here is the fact that you can buy the other one (M12) for just over £30k now, and the other-other one (M400) for £50-£60k... now I know the used vs new comparison doesn't usually work but if you're after a track car and a Noble specifically then those seem like a much better option.
The £200k+ category is not really where the large trackday audience is found - instead there are many more types of vehicles to tempt your money away.
Lots of discussion on here about the Ferrari/Mclaren choices if you want to combine posing around with the odd track day, but also some very fine classics to be found in this price range if you're just after an "interesting" car, and in terms of pure track toys you're into actual competition spec vehicles at this price point.
From the press release it seems they are mainly looking at the trackday audience...but that takes us back to the second hand Noble market, at 1/10th to 1/5th of the price.. Confusing!
This is targeted at a few dozen people a year who want a very fast car that is beautifully made and does not have a double clutch box and lots of driver aids.
I don't see the appeal of the auto - it makes the car too close to obvious McLaren and Ferrari.
The manual is what it is all about - an old school, hand made car without all the tarting and faff and baggage of the "lifestyle" brands. This is not a car intended for "supercar kids" on youtube. That is the whole point of it.
I think I "get" the appeal. Seeing yet another rich kid or wannabee in a Ferrari means little to me. This will attract only a small portion of the market. But that is just fine.
toppstuff said:
This is NOT targeted at track day users. Although no doubt it would be pretty good fun.
This is targeted at a few dozen people a year who want a very fast car that is beautifully made and does not have a double clutch box and lots of driver aids.
I don't see the appeal of the auto - it makes the car too close to obvious McLaren and Ferrari.
The manual is what it is all about - an old school, hand made car without all the tarting and faff and baggage of the "lifestyle" brands. This is not a car intended for "supercar kids" on youtube. That is the whole point of it.
I think I "get" the appeal. Seeing yet another rich kid or wannabee in a Ferrari means little to me. This will attract only a small portion of the market. But that is just fine.
OK, I understand that - and I think that's great. But unfortunately no surprise then that they haven't sold many of them This is targeted at a few dozen people a year who want a very fast car that is beautifully made and does not have a double clutch box and lots of driver aids.
I don't see the appeal of the auto - it makes the car too close to obvious McLaren and Ferrari.
The manual is what it is all about - an old school, hand made car without all the tarting and faff and baggage of the "lifestyle" brands. This is not a car intended for "supercar kids" on youtube. That is the whole point of it.
I think I "get" the appeal. Seeing yet another rich kid or wannabee in a Ferrari means little to me. This will attract only a small portion of the market. But that is just fine.
Talk is cheap. The fact is hardly anyone has bought one. Capable as it may be something isn't right or very simply they would have sold more than a handful.
I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
Boshly said:
Talk is cheap. The fact is hardly anyone has bought one. Capable as it may be something isn't right or very simply they would have sold more than a handful.
I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
The intention is to to sell as many as say, McLaren will sell 675s. Noble production is just maybe 2 a month max. I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
I can understand why some people would pick this over a Speciale or 675. It is analogue vs digital.
But then I would also prefer an F40 over a La Ferrari. And I'd take a 74' 911RS over a new 911 / 991 RSR. There are not many people around like that. Noble isn't doing good job of finding the few that are, but I think they are out there.
SturdyHSV said:
Fetchez la vache said:
cypriot said:
This car is essentially the Pagani of the UK.
This in bucketloads.I mean, the Noble M12 was released in 2000 with a Mondeo V6 and looking... a bit odd. The Zonda C12 was released around the same time looking stunning with a Mercedes V12.
Look who can now charge millions for their cars...
I like Noble, but it's TVR without the huge pile of drugs that presumably sat in the middle of their design office in the mid 90s. Which is great if you're buying an £100k sports car that's quicker than a £200k Ferrari, but I'm not sure it flies when competing directly..
I hope it can sell and they can continue to develop though.
toppstuff said:
Boshly said:
Talk is cheap. The fact is hardly anyone has bought one. Capable as it may be something isn't right or very simply they would have sold more than a handful.
I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
The intention is to to sell as many as say, McLaren will sell 675s. Noble production is just maybe 2 a month max. I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
I can understand why some people would pick this over a Speciale or 675. It is analogue vs digital.
But then I would also prefer an F40 over a La Ferrari. And I'd take a 74' 911RS over a new 911 / 991 RSR. There are not many people around like that. Noble isn't doing good job of finding the few that are, but I think they are out there.
Lastly M laren have sold 1000+ 675's of both types. Noble have sold 10/20?
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