RE: Noble M600 reborn and revisited
Discussion
They want too much too soon. Megabucks motors like the Paganis and Koenigseggs look and behave like they're from another planet and for this reason they have survived without being an historic marque with racing pedigree etc. Noble should have kept with the M12 series until they just got better and better. They should have put them into race series. They should have slowly built the reputation until the world knew who they were and what they could do. Years later they would have earned the reputation and pedigree to build the M600 AND make it look awesome.
I was always a lover of the M12/M400, in fact i still am!
So for the M600, i was quite excited!
However, since it was released, i've never been too impressed. It looks "ok" from behind, but could never get on with the looks.
There's a lot of mention of price here, and certainly with the price tag it currently has, i'd want something that looks incredible, M600 just looks mediocre in my opinion, and when you compare with ferrari, lambo, mclaren etc at the same price, i wouldn't see the point in spending on one of these.
So for the M600, i was quite excited!
However, since it was released, i've never been too impressed. It looks "ok" from behind, but could never get on with the looks.
There's a lot of mention of price here, and certainly with the price tag it currently has, i'd want something that looks incredible, M600 just looks mediocre in my opinion, and when you compare with ferrari, lambo, mclaren etc at the same price, i wouldn't see the point in spending on one of these.
Yet another M600 thread with so much ignorance it's frightening.
It's pretty much a Noble in name only.
It's nothing related to a m12/GT0-3/ 3R/M400 at all, anywhere.
Yes a 488 has the same power but it weighs more.
"Fit and finish not as good as Ferrari/Lamborghini blah blah".... It's bloody leagues ahead, and yet it's bespoke.
Maybe at least the Volvo myth has been dispelled.
And other than the ignorant bias generally, this is a quick take of what they have to put up with.....
Remember Top Gear? When they took the M600 to Europe along with a Ferrari and a Lamborghini? They showed the M600 at the side of the road with broken clutch... What they didn't tell you was that it was broken by Hammond who admitted he was constantly riding the clutch on the high speed runs as it was one of the first he'd done after he'd recovered from his accident. Hammond wanted to admit it on tele, the producers said no. Noble got a replacement car there within 24hours.Meanwhile the God knows how many Lambo engineers ( so much for confidence in their product taking that many out there) worked out among other problems why it cooked it's brakes, and Ferraris technicians could scratch their heads and work out how many versions of the various track tyres would actually give it a chance.
Noble had one bloke there, the driver.
It's about time this car got the credit it deserves, built in Britain, made beautifully,pretty much unique and holding it's own or more in every single review of the car.I'm bloody glad it exists.
It's pretty much a Noble in name only.
It's nothing related to a m12/GT0-3/ 3R/M400 at all, anywhere.
Yes a 488 has the same power but it weighs more.
"Fit and finish not as good as Ferrari/Lamborghini blah blah".... It's bloody leagues ahead, and yet it's bespoke.
Maybe at least the Volvo myth has been dispelled.
And other than the ignorant bias generally, this is a quick take of what they have to put up with.....
Remember Top Gear? When they took the M600 to Europe along with a Ferrari and a Lamborghini? They showed the M600 at the side of the road with broken clutch... What they didn't tell you was that it was broken by Hammond who admitted he was constantly riding the clutch on the high speed runs as it was one of the first he'd done after he'd recovered from his accident. Hammond wanted to admit it on tele, the producers said no. Noble got a replacement car there within 24hours.Meanwhile the God knows how many Lambo engineers ( so much for confidence in their product taking that many out there) worked out among other problems why it cooked it's brakes, and Ferraris technicians could scratch their heads and work out how many versions of the various track tyres would actually give it a chance.
Noble had one bloke there, the driver.
It's about time this car got the credit it deserves, built in Britain, made beautifully,pretty much unique and holding it's own or more in every single review of the car.I'm bloody glad it exists.
Why isn't it selling then? Simple question. Something obviously isn't quite right. Or if I'm wrong please enlighten me.
I'd love to see it be successful as another British marque but everyone who waxes lyrically about all the great attributes it has doesn't seem to be stumping up the money to buy one. This my assertion that 'something' isn't right.
I'd love to see it be successful as another British marque but everyone who waxes lyrically about all the great attributes it has doesn't seem to be stumping up the money to buy one. This my assertion that 'something' isn't right.
Edited by Boshly on Thursday 11th August 03:56
Boshly, I think the unknown element of deprecation is a factor. The fact that none had come on to the second hand market ( every owner had kept it ) hasn't helped a bit that's certainly a good advert for the car.
The marketing until recently has been (if not astonishing poor) then certainly under the radar. Having said that, thus was never going to be a 5 cars a week project anyway.
Even the name I don't think has helped( not to those who actually have the cash) but it's encouraged negativity on forums like this from those who simply can't make the distinction between the early cars and this.
What I find perplexing is that something like the non existent ( ok there might be one ) TVR Speed 12, a load of laughable pie in the sky 150 grand when new 15 years ago b
ks,is still lauded on here today, and yet here we have at last a properly built British Supercar, backed by real money,that is universally praised on every single road test, and yet it gets a hard time.
You couldn't make it up.
The marketing until recently has been (if not astonishing poor) then certainly under the radar. Having said that, thus was never going to be a 5 cars a week project anyway.
Even the name I don't think has helped( not to those who actually have the cash) but it's encouraged negativity on forums like this from those who simply can't make the distinction between the early cars and this.
What I find perplexing is that something like the non existent ( ok there might be one ) TVR Speed 12, a load of laughable pie in the sky 150 grand when new 15 years ago b
ks,is still lauded on here today, and yet here we have at last a properly built British Supercar, backed by real money,that is universally praised on every single road test, and yet it gets a hard time.You couldn't make it up.
Boshly said:
Talk is cheap. The fact is hardly anyone has bought one. Capable as it may be something isn't right or very simply they would have sold more than a handful.
I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
Pretty much sums up exactly what I'm thinking.I would wager more F40's and Paganis have been sold in the period it's been available than M600's and they're rare as rocking horse poo.
I reiterate, it's not sold for a reason. McLarens and Ferraris do well, for a reason. And before anyone says posers etc if you only took enthusiastic buyers of say Speciale and 675 (similar price points) they have sold many many many multiples of what the M600 has.
Capable car I'm sure with what people are saying but too many compromises for those that actually would pay that sort of money.
To add; 6 years ago was the time for this car but it just did not look special enough and the interior was soooooo far behind the competition.
It's all very well people talking about the "analogue car" and the manual gearbox but the world has gone digital and all but a (very) few want digital. Numbers don't lie.
...elephant in the room is the name. Christ you're directly/indirectly competing against the Ferrari Speciale, Lamborghini Balboni, Pagini Zonda and Koenigsegg. NOBLE...really!
SJC that article sums up my point. It's a great car to drive, dynamic, analogue, bloody quick etc etc plaudits abound (though to be fair I'm sceptical about motoring journalism per se these days).
However - before I get to the 'no one's buying them' part again - it's a new roadster that's just been announced. No scuttle shake. Hurrah; still quick - fan bloody tastic. So take the roof off and enjoy your drive. Oh hang on, let's unclip the roof and lift it off (like my 1994 348GTS). So, I need a hand please someone. Oh and where do I stow it? Oh nowhere (unlike my 1994 348GTS which had space). Please, really? £300k.
And as for the comment "people who buy this will have a man with a van following" (wonder why I'm sceptical of motoring journalists) no they won't. One or two might, but generally they won't. Oh look over there, Ferraris' 488 and McLarens' 650/675 both have folding hard tops at a lesser price and for eaxcatly the same performance parameters.
Now, why aren't Nobles selling???
SJC, I appreciate you're a big fan, but deprecation worries don't prevent people buying a car they really really love/cherish/want! Believe you me. Man maths is a very well known affliction that has generated many a sale of a desirable car. It seems absent at the door of the M600.
Their marketing strategy may be flawed but as you point out the reviews are good and the cars well exposed, though I would mainly say it's the driving dynamics that are revered, and interestingly the rest isn't often commented on. You and I can say what we want but until people start buying them there is undoubtedly something not right.
PS - I looked at one briefly and put my money elsewhere.
However - before I get to the 'no one's buying them' part again - it's a new roadster that's just been announced. No scuttle shake. Hurrah; still quick - fan bloody tastic. So take the roof off and enjoy your drive. Oh hang on, let's unclip the roof and lift it off (like my 1994 348GTS). So, I need a hand please someone. Oh and where do I stow it? Oh nowhere (unlike my 1994 348GTS which had space). Please, really? £300k.
And as for the comment "people who buy this will have a man with a van following" (wonder why I'm sceptical of motoring journalists) no they won't. One or two might, but generally they won't. Oh look over there, Ferraris' 488 and McLarens' 650/675 both have folding hard tops at a lesser price and for eaxcatly the same performance parameters.
Now, why aren't Nobles selling???
SJC, I appreciate you're a big fan, but deprecation worries don't prevent people buying a car they really really love/cherish/want! Believe you me. Man maths is a very well known affliction that has generated many a sale of a desirable car. It seems absent at the door of the M600.
Their marketing strategy may be flawed but as you point out the reviews are good and the cars well exposed, though I would mainly say it's the driving dynamics that are revered, and interestingly the rest isn't often commented on. You and I can say what we want but until people start buying them there is undoubtedly something not right.
PS - I looked at one briefly and put my money elsewhere.
Boshly said:
SJC that article sums up my point. It's a great car to drive, dynamic, analogue, bloody quick etc etc plaudits abound (though to be fair I'm sceptical about motoring journalism per se these days).
However - before I get to the 'no one's buying them' part again - it's a new roadster that's just been announced. No scuttle shake. Hurrah; still quick - fan bloody tastic. So take the roof off and enjoy your drive. Oh hang on, let's unclip the roof and lift it off (like my 1994 348GTS). So, I need a hand please someone. Oh and where do I stow it? Oh nowhere (unlike my 1994 348GTS which had space). Please, really? £300k.
And as for the comment "people who buy this will have a man with a van following" (wonder why I'm sceptical of motoring journalists) no they won't. One or two might, but generally they won't. Oh look over there, Ferraris' 488 and McLarens' 650/675 both have folding hard tops at a lesser price and for eaxcatly the same performance parameters.
Now, why aren't Nobles selling???
SJC, I appreciate you're a big fan, but deprecation worries don't prevent people buying a car they really really love/cherish/want! Believe you me. Man maths is a very well known affliction that has generated many a sale of a desirable car. It seems absent at the door of the M600.
Their marketing strategy may be flawed but as you point out the reviews are good and the cars well exposed, though I would mainly say it's the driving dynamics that are revered, and interestingly the rest isn't often commented on. You and I can say what we want but until people start buying them there is undoubtedly something not right.
PS - I looked at one briefly and put my money elsewhere.
Then the same argument could be levelled at your 1994 348,as 10 years previous TVR had brought out their Wedge cars which managed to have a lift out roof that went in the boot with still available stowage space,something the 300 grand + Aventador roadster can't manage today, or the previous Murci roadster that made do with a canvas roof! I dread to think what stick the M600 would get if it came out with that arrangement!! It just doesn't seem to get a level playing field.However - before I get to the 'no one's buying them' part again - it's a new roadster that's just been announced. No scuttle shake. Hurrah; still quick - fan bloody tastic. So take the roof off and enjoy your drive. Oh hang on, let's unclip the roof and lift it off (like my 1994 348GTS). So, I need a hand please someone. Oh and where do I stow it? Oh nowhere (unlike my 1994 348GTS which had space). Please, really? £300k.
And as for the comment "people who buy this will have a man with a van following" (wonder why I'm sceptical of motoring journalists) no they won't. One or two might, but generally they won't. Oh look over there, Ferraris' 488 and McLarens' 650/675 both have folding hard tops at a lesser price and for eaxcatly the same performance parameters.
Now, why aren't Nobles selling???
SJC, I appreciate you're a big fan, but deprecation worries don't prevent people buying a car they really really love/cherish/want! Believe you me. Man maths is a very well known affliction that has generated many a sale of a desirable car. It seems absent at the door of the M600.
Their marketing strategy may be flawed but as you point out the reviews are good and the cars well exposed, though I would mainly say it's the driving dynamics that are revered, and interestingly the rest isn't often commented on. You and I can say what we want but until people start buying them there is undoubtedly something not right.
PS - I looked at one briefly and put my money elsewhere.
The cars are better exposed now, haven't been up until the new dealership was announced recently.
It's actually astonishing that ( whether it be 100/200/300 /500 grand ) it can compete with it's peers in all the important areas on the road, if not on badge or heritage.
Irrespective of our views, I just think we should wish it well.
sjc said:
It's actually astonishing that ( whether it be 100/200/300 /500 grand ) it can compete with it's peers in all the important areas on the road, if not on badge or heritage.
.... or more importantly, styling and credible dealer support.But leaving that aside I'm not at all surprised it has the performance of its peers. There was never any doubt that the M12/400 could cut the mustard in that department. I think where Noble were fortunate with that car is the only real competitor was Lotus and they were struggling on with the 20-year old Esprit. With ever increasing price and a temperamental V8 the Lotus left room for Noble to get established.
Yes, I'd love to see Noble back selling cars. Makes at least as much sense as the new-TVR affair.
Fundamentally the "problem" in the sportscar sector is that major manufacturers are in the game where they weren't 20 years ago. And they are churning out some very good cars at competitive prices. Makes it very difficult for the smaller players.
sjc said:
Then the same argument could be levelled at your 1994 348,as 10 years previous TVR had brought out their Wedge cars which managed to have a lift out roof that went in the boot with still available stowage space,something the 300 grand + Aventador roadster can't manage today, or the previous Murci roadster that made do with a canvas roof! I dread to think what stick the M600 would get if it came out with that arrangement!! It just doesn't seem to get a level playing field.
The cars are better exposed now, haven't been up until the new dealership was announced recently.
It's actually astonishing that ( whether it be 100/200/300 /500 grand ) it can compete with it's peers in all the important areas on the road, if not on badge or heritage.
Irrespective of our views, I just think we should wish it well.
I would sooner have a canvas roof to get me through a rain shower or bad weather than a hardtop sat in my garage. As would I suggest would most people in the UK and most of Europe. I would guess that this configuration of the M600 was done for ease of design/manufacture to present a 'new' car?The cars are better exposed now, haven't been up until the new dealership was announced recently.
It's actually astonishing that ( whether it be 100/200/300 /500 grand ) it can compete with it's peers in all the important areas on the road, if not on badge or heritage.
Irrespective of our views, I just think we should wish it well.
My 348 roof stowed beautifully behind the seats so not sure what you were referring to there?
And I do wish them well, I just think it's a bit of a folly, though would be happy to be proved wrong. The car reminds me of a Gumpert or some other small manufacturer design which doesn't look quite right. That I suspect is its biggest issue (along with price and therefore pedigree) though I appreciate it's subjective.
Look at Morgans Aeromax; over double their previous cars highest price (Aero 8 was £50k at the time Aeromax was £110k) and similarly new segment and configuration yet car was lauded as beautiful and they sold all 100 very quickly. Capability and dynamics are important but design is key.
cautiontothewind said:
...elephant in the room is the name. Christ you're directly/indirectly competing against the Ferrari Speciale, Lamborghini Balboni, Pagini Zonda and Koenigsegg. NOBLE...really!
Yes. They are all named after the founder of the company. What's your point? You think the word Koenigsegg had any cache when the company was launched?sjc said:
Yet another M600 thread with so much ignorance it's frightening.
It's pretty much a Noble in name only.
It's nothing related to a m12/GT0-3/ 3R/M400 at all, anywhere.
Yes a 488 has the same power but it weighs more.
"Fit and finish not as good as Ferrari/Lamborghini blah blah".... It's bloody leagues ahead, and yet it's bespoke.
Maybe at least the Volvo myth has been dispelled.
And other than the ignorant bias generally, this is a quick take of what they have to put up with.....
Remember Top Gear? When they took the M600 to Europe along with a Ferrari and a Lamborghini? They showed the M600 at the side of the road with broken clutch... What they didn't tell you was that it was broken by Hammond who admitted he was constantly riding the clutch on the high speed runs as it was one of the first he'd done after he'd recovered from his accident. Hammond wanted to admit it on tele, the producers said no. Noble got a replacement car there within 24hours.Meanwhile the God knows how many Lambo engineers ( so much for confidence in their product taking that many out there) worked out among other problems why it cooked it's brakes, and Ferraris technicians could scratch their heads and work out how many versions of the various track tyres would actually give it a chance.
Noble had one bloke there, the driver.
It's about time this car got the credit it deserves, built in Britain, made beautifully,pretty much unique and holding it's own or more in every single review of the car.I'm bloody glad it exists.
Not sure why Ferrari technicians would be scratching their heads over which tyres to use, as I don't think they would be spending any time supporting a McLaren.It's pretty much a Noble in name only.
It's nothing related to a m12/GT0-3/ 3R/M400 at all, anywhere.
Yes a 488 has the same power but it weighs more.
"Fit and finish not as good as Ferrari/Lamborghini blah blah".... It's bloody leagues ahead, and yet it's bespoke.
Maybe at least the Volvo myth has been dispelled.
And other than the ignorant bias generally, this is a quick take of what they have to put up with.....
Remember Top Gear? When they took the M600 to Europe along with a Ferrari and a Lamborghini? They showed the M600 at the side of the road with broken clutch... What they didn't tell you was that it was broken by Hammond who admitted he was constantly riding the clutch on the high speed runs as it was one of the first he'd done after he'd recovered from his accident. Hammond wanted to admit it on tele, the producers said no. Noble got a replacement car there within 24hours.Meanwhile the God knows how many Lambo engineers ( so much for confidence in their product taking that many out there) worked out among other problems why it cooked it's brakes, and Ferraris technicians could scratch their heads and work out how many versions of the various track tyres would actually give it a chance.
Noble had one bloke there, the driver.
It's about time this car got the credit it deserves, built in Britain, made beautifully,pretty much unique and holding it's own or more in every single review of the car.I'm bloody glad it exists.
AlexS said:
Not sure why Ferrari technicians would be scratching their heads over which tyres to use, as I don't think they would be spending any time supporting a McLaren.
Ha ha !Ferrari it was then!The episode was years back,at my age I'm surprised I even remembered the Lamborghini!
Turquoise said:
cautiontothewind said:
...elephant in the room is the name. Christ you're directly/indirectly competing against the Ferrari Speciale, Lamborghini Balboni, Pagini Zonda and Koenigsegg. NOBLE...really!
Yes. They are all named after the founder of the company. What's your point? You think the word Koenigsegg had any cache when the company was launched?Hi All,
Just thought I would make an appearance having read this thread with great interest.
I am the Aftersales Manager at Super Veloce Racing, the new sole dealer for the Noble M600.
Amongst my many tasks is on line marketing on Facebook and Instagram, so to see all your comments regarding media exposure and marketing is interesting, seeing as we are responsible for pushing the newly revised Noble M600 forward.
All of your points are valid, and I am happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability regarding Noble and the M600.
But what I will say is this......both my Sales Manager and I have a very long history at the very top of the Supercar world, and we have never driven a car like this before. It is crazy fast, beautifully built, extremely comfortable, has exceptional handling and just delivers so much more driving experience than anything mainstream, and I think we are qualified to say that.
Your issues are valid and your thoughts welcome, and I can assure you that many of your ideas are being tackled as we speak, with bespoke development of this car ongoing.
We know this because we bought one, and our car is unique to us.
There is plenty yet to come from this great car and this Great British car company, and if you want a closer look, any of you are more than welcome to come and have a coffee with us and inspect our demonstrator.
Please feel free to ask anything you like and I'll do my best to answer you.
Alan.
Just thought I would make an appearance having read this thread with great interest.
I am the Aftersales Manager at Super Veloce Racing, the new sole dealer for the Noble M600.
Amongst my many tasks is on line marketing on Facebook and Instagram, so to see all your comments regarding media exposure and marketing is interesting, seeing as we are responsible for pushing the newly revised Noble M600 forward.
All of your points are valid, and I am happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability regarding Noble and the M600.
But what I will say is this......both my Sales Manager and I have a very long history at the very top of the Supercar world, and we have never driven a car like this before. It is crazy fast, beautifully built, extremely comfortable, has exceptional handling and just delivers so much more driving experience than anything mainstream, and I think we are qualified to say that.
Your issues are valid and your thoughts welcome, and I can assure you that many of your ideas are being tackled as we speak, with bespoke development of this car ongoing.
We know this because we bought one, and our car is unique to us.
There is plenty yet to come from this great car and this Great British car company, and if you want a closer look, any of you are more than welcome to come and have a coffee with us and inspect our demonstrator.
Please feel free to ask anything you like and I'll do my best to answer you.
Alan.
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