What's the closest car to a modern Peugeot 205 GTi?
Discussion
Sorry, I'm sure this has been done before but I owned a 1.6 GTi back in 2002-2004 and what blew me away was:
the instant throttle response and free-revving nature
steering dripping with feedback (unassisted)
playful demeanour i.e. you could steer it on the throttle and despite the widow-maker reputation, it never bit me.
I'll be honest, I have never felt as confident exploring the limits of a car as in that one, as I either get terminal understeer or snap oversteer in the case of an E30 325i (although I haven't owned many RWDers).
Lots of flaws of course. Loud, terrible to drive in traffic, made of cardboard, part-time electrics etc but wow, was it fun and although I have owned some other cars that I have enjoyed since, nothing has quite replicated it as a driving experience.
Does anything made in the last 10 years even come close? A Mk5 Golf GTI that I drove had a great chassis and a strong motor but an altogether less raw driving experience.
the instant throttle response and free-revving nature
steering dripping with feedback (unassisted)
playful demeanour i.e. you could steer it on the throttle and despite the widow-maker reputation, it never bit me.
I'll be honest, I have never felt as confident exploring the limits of a car as in that one, as I either get terminal understeer or snap oversteer in the case of an E30 325i (although I haven't owned many RWDers).
Lots of flaws of course. Loud, terrible to drive in traffic, made of cardboard, part-time electrics etc but wow, was it fun and although I have owned some other cars that I have enjoyed since, nothing has quite replicated it as a driving experience.
Does anything made in the last 10 years even come close? A Mk5 Golf GTI that I drove had a great chassis and a strong motor but an altogether less raw driving experience.
white_goodman said:
Sorry, I'm sure this has been done before but I owned a 1.6 GTi back in 2002-2004 and what blew me away was:
the instant throttle response and free-revving nature
steering dripping with feedback (unassisted)
playful demeanour i.e. you could steer it on the throttle and despite the widow-maker reputation, it never bit me.
I'll be honest, I have never felt as confident exploring the limits of a car as in that one, as I either get terminal understeer or snap oversteer in the case of an E30 325i (although I haven't owned many RWDers).
Lots of flaws of course. Loud, terrible to drive in traffic, made of cardboard, part-time electrics etc but wow, was it fun and although I have owned some other cars that I have enjoyed since, nothing has quite replicated it as a driving experience.
Does anything made in the last 10 years even come close? A Mk5 Golf GTI that I drove had a great chassis and a strong motor but an altogether less raw driving experience.
Clio 182? I dont knowthe instant throttle response and free-revving nature
steering dripping with feedback (unassisted)
playful demeanour i.e. you could steer it on the throttle and despite the widow-maker reputation, it never bit me.
I'll be honest, I have never felt as confident exploring the limits of a car as in that one, as I either get terminal understeer or snap oversteer in the case of an E30 325i (although I haven't owned many RWDers).
Lots of flaws of course. Loud, terrible to drive in traffic, made of cardboard, part-time electrics etc but wow, was it fun and although I have owned some other cars that I have enjoyed since, nothing has quite replicated it as a driving experience.
Does anything made in the last 10 years even come close? A Mk5 Golf GTI that I drove had a great chassis and a strong motor but an altogether less raw driving experience.
Suzuki Swift Sport? Most modern stuff is now turbocharged, heavy and has 2-300 bhp. If you want the 205 feel get back to (as close as you can get) 205 power, weight and engine type.
ETA: can you tell I'm planning on making one my next car
ETA: can you tell I'm planning on making one my next car
Edited by patmahe on Thursday 11th August 16:52
Suzuki ignis sport.
'Suzuki may have plundered its rallying heritage to create the Ignis Sport, but it lacks sparkle. The engine is lively and quite flexible for a small 16-valver, but the gearbox isn't up to the task, while the interior is a little cheap. Still, it's a good effort and decent value.'
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/15684/suz...
flawed but rated highly.
'Suzuki may have plundered its rallying heritage to create the Ignis Sport, but it lacks sparkle. The engine is lively and quite flexible for a small 16-valver, but the gearbox isn't up to the task, while the interior is a little cheap. Still, it's a good effort and decent value.'
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/15684/suz...
flawed but rated highly.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Thursday 11th August 16:54
I know exactly what you mean. I owned and loved a 205GTI about 10 years ago and since then I have searched and searched for a usable car that gave me the same thrills.
The closest was an Integra R but that car was far from the Peugeot in terms of steering feel. I honestly think you need to buy another 205 or similar. My Caterham and Elise are better driving machines with even finer steering but at the obvious practicality costs.
The closest was an Integra R but that car was far from the Peugeot in terms of steering feel. I honestly think you need to buy another 205 or similar. My Caterham and Elise are better driving machines with even finer steering but at the obvious practicality costs.
white_goodman said:
the instant throttle response and free-revving nature
steering dripping with feedback (unassisted)
playful demeanour i.e. you could steer it on the throttle and despite the widow-maker reputation, it never bit me.
Lots of flaws of course. Loud, terrible to drive in traffic, made of cardboard, part-time electrics etc but wow, was it fun
This is exactly how I describe my TVR Tuscan... So I vote Tuscan. (Never driven the reference car though, probably miles apart in reality, but similar feelings invoked by the sounds)steering dripping with feedback (unassisted)
playful demeanour i.e. you could steer it on the throttle and despite the widow-maker reputation, it never bit me.
Lots of flaws of course. Loud, terrible to drive in traffic, made of cardboard, part-time electrics etc but wow, was it fun
OP - did you never feel lift off oversteer on your 205?* That certainly had some snap to it! Can't say I agree that it is the car I felt most comfortable exploring the limits in for that very reason but, notwithstanding that, I agree with all the rest. It was a great first car (1.9, owned 96-00) with amazing steering, flat in corners (but a comfy ride), great engine and decent brakes. I wish I held onto it.
- most memorable one for me was carelessly stamping on the gas on a soaking roundabout, big under steer, lifted off, even bigger oversteer, sliding toward a lamppost. Can remember staring through the left window as said lamppost came closer and closer, that's how sideways the car was. Thankfully, the grip came back just in time for the car to go straight again!
The Spruce goose said:
Suzuki ignis sport.
'Suzuki may have plundered its rallying heritage to create the Ignis Sport, but it lacks sparkle. The engine is lively and quite flexible for a small 16-valver, but the gearbox isn't up to the task, while the interior is a little cheap. Still, it's a good effort and decent value.'
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/15684/suz...
flawed but rated highly.
Funny enough I've owned one, it is flawed but brilliant fun. It was incredible on track as you could keep it pinned for most of the lap which made you feel like a hero, some people in faster stuff (e36 M3 as an example) said they had trouble staying with me through the corners, though they quickly got past on the straights. Still the most fun I've ever had in a car.'Suzuki may have plundered its rallying heritage to create the Ignis Sport, but it lacks sparkle. The engine is lively and quite flexible for a small 16-valver, but the gearbox isn't up to the task, while the interior is a little cheap. Still, it's a good effort and decent value.'
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/15684/suz...
flawed but rated highly.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Thursday 11th August 16:54
Just be aware on the road, you will feel every poor surface and every pothole through your spine, the suspension is very stiff and the ratios are short so noise at motorway speeds is an issue, I think it was close to 4000rpm at ~75mph. Whether it will suit you or not depends on your intended use.
likesachange said:
The last Clio 172 cup or as said the twingo 133 both circa a ton and pretty raw....
The 172 cup prob shaves 6seconds off the 0-100 time off the pug
Since then Renault have went all abit Lardy.
500 Abarth is pretty light and reasonable fun too by all accounts
These are nothing near as raw or fun as a 205. The 172 cup prob shaves 6seconds off the 0-100 time off the pug
Since then Renault have went all abit Lardy.
500 Abarth is pretty light and reasonable fun too by all accounts
The cynic in me wants to say that type of car is dead. Much like the small RWD hatchback.
If you mention you prefer unassisted steering, or complain about DWB throttle lag, most people in here laugh and think you're pretentious and making it up.
Modern 'sports' hatchbacks are biased towards big, pub-braggart numbers, bluetooth, air-con and gadgets, as that sells cars. Cars without electronic nannies, or with limits low enough to actually reach on the road are 'dangerous', and a car without power steering is 'impossible' to drive. 'Hyped' throttle response, faked sounds, over-servoed brakes, hyperactive, super-light variable racks and bore-fest DSG boxes are all the marketing-led crap getting stuck onto cars to appeal to the ignorant, lowest-common-denominator PCP 'purchaser' who wants a superficially 'fun', zero-effort car and doesn't really have a clue...
The kind of sensations you describe are now the preserve of speciality cars, like the Elise, Caterham or perhaps kit cars. This kind of connection is increasingly ironed out of modern, mainstream cars and will be harder and harder to find.
Buy something from the 90's or earlier.
It's 6 o' clock. That's not too early to start drinking is it?
If you mention you prefer unassisted steering, or complain about DWB throttle lag, most people in here laugh and think you're pretentious and making it up.
Modern 'sports' hatchbacks are biased towards big, pub-braggart numbers, bluetooth, air-con and gadgets, as that sells cars. Cars without electronic nannies, or with limits low enough to actually reach on the road are 'dangerous', and a car without power steering is 'impossible' to drive. 'Hyped' throttle response, faked sounds, over-servoed brakes, hyperactive, super-light variable racks and bore-fest DSG boxes are all the marketing-led crap getting stuck onto cars to appeal to the ignorant, lowest-common-denominator PCP 'purchaser' who wants a superficially 'fun', zero-effort car and doesn't really have a clue...
The kind of sensations you describe are now the preserve of speciality cars, like the Elise, Caterham or perhaps kit cars. This kind of connection is increasingly ironed out of modern, mainstream cars and will be harder and harder to find.
Buy something from the 90's or earlier.
It's 6 o' clock. That's not too early to start drinking is it?
750turbo said:
MINI
I had one as a loan car a few months back, immediately reminded me of the 205.
(Buggered if I remember what model it was, sorry, but it was a current model).
I'd say an R50 gen Cooper ( just creeps into the last 10 year requirement )I had one as a loan car a few months back, immediately reminded me of the 205.
(Buggered if I remember what model it was, sorry, but it was a current model).
They'll even do the liftoff thing with the stability switched off
gl20 said:
OP - did you never feel lift off oversteer on your 205?* That certainly had some snap to it! Can't say I agree that it is the car I felt most comfortable exploring the limits in for that very reason but, notwithstanding that, I agree with all the rest. It was a great first car (1.9, owned 96-00) with amazing steering, flat in corners (but a comfy ride), great engine and decent brakes. I wish I held onto it.
Oh yes. I am acquainted with lift-off oversteer on 205s but mine always remained adjustable and progressive and roundabouts were always good for some fun, even in the wet. Try to build up some understeer (which wasn't easy and required some commitment) and quite refreshing compared to the '95 Astra that preceded it, lift off to let the rear slide, back on the power to straighten it up and repeat as appopriate. Maybe it was because mine was a 1.6 it was a bit more forgiving or perhaps because I fitted it with some decent performance tyres.- most memorable one for me was carelessly stamping on the gas on a soaking roundabout, big under steer, lifted off, even bigger oversteer, sliding toward a lamppost. Can remember staring through the left window as said lamppost came closer and closer, that's how sideways the car was. Thankfully, the grip came back just in time for the car to go straight again!
I haven't driven a Twingo 133 or Swift Sport, so worth a go. Ignis Sport was incredibly firm. MINI ok. My wife had a Fiat 500 1.2. It was quite fun but the chassis and steering were flawed, so the 500 Abarth may be similar. An Elise is a very different type of car but always one that I thought that I would like and must try.
I really need to revisit the Clio 182, as I drove one once, disliked the driving position and found the engine a bit uninspiring. That being said, I disliked the Impreza the first time I drove one and now I love them.
How does the EP3 Civic Type-R compare?
I think the problem is that due to larger tyres, most modern cars grip and then grip some more and then understeer when you're going much faster.
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 11th August 18:57
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 11th August 19:01
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff