What's the closest car to a modern Peugeot 205 GTi?

[routari]

Need to be front drive?

[likesachange]

SidewaysSi said:

These are nothing near as raw or fun as a 205.

Not sure how the 172 cup is no where near as raw or fun as a 205?

No abs, no aircon, thinner Windows etc very playful handling?

Maybe not as raw ? But certainly close...

Out of interest what exactly makes the 205 so much rawrer?

[powerstroke]

Wonders if anyone has thought of backwards enginering something newer maybe fitting manual quick rack, bias braking peddle box, disabling the ABS ESP , playing with the suspension geometry and fitting aftermarket injection !! thing is cars now are the same basic design as the 1990s apart from the electronics and weight!!!

[spreadsheet monkey]

The answers given on this thread help to explain last week's £30k 205 GTI story.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhead...

[Toyoda]

Similar specs to the Ignis Sport but simply a nicer place to be is the Yaris T-Sport. Often overlooked and therefore a second hand bargain, they're very much an old-school warm hatch. Instant throttle response, hydraulic power steering, low weight, sensible 15" alloys.

[Grunt Futtock]

Toyoda said:

Similar specs to the Ignis Sport but simply a nicer place to be is the Yaris T-Sport. Often overlooked and therefore a second hand bargain, they're very much an old-school warm hatch. Instant throttle response, hydraulic power steering, low weight, sensible 15" alloys.

My wife used to have a 1.3 Yaris T-Spirit (which I know is different) but it was always good fun to drive, handled like a go cart and you could nail it everywhere and it would only ever need tyres and brakes come MOT time.

[k-ink]

spreadsheet monkey said:

The answers given on this thread help to explain last week's £30k 205 GTI story.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhead...

Mad money for a FWD hatch! But I do understand it, if you are loaded and nostalgic. Why not. Far better value than old Fords too.

On a personal level I'd rather buy a Ginetta!

[rallycross]

In the last 10 years - so post 2006 reg there is not much that comes close to how the 205's felt, everything is too heavy, too refined.

Surprisingly a base model 2007 onwards facelift Mini Cooper 1.6 with small wheels (15 inch 175/60/15's - most unfashionable) gives a lot of the fun my old 205 1600 gave me, with 120 bhp, not too much grip, pin sharp steering, can be thown into the bends/roundabouts with great results, the last one I drove even had quite a nice throaty induction roar on full throttle.

Swift 1.6 16v Sport is quite good to thrash down a B road with stiff suspension and a revy 120 bhp enigne, feels light and chuckable but its ruined by the silly high driving position (seats) and high roofline (for people with top hats?) and rock hard suspension - they could learn a thing or two from how Peugeot set up their suspension on 205/309/306/106.

[J4CKO]

powerstroke said:

Wonders if anyone has thought of backwards enginering something newer maybe fitting manual quick rack, bias braking peddle box, disabling the ABS ESP , playing with the suspension geometry and fitting aftermarket injection !! thing is cars now are the same basic design as the 1990s apart from the electronics and weight!!!

I was thinking along those lines, something like a Clio 182 and then modify it to dial out some of the civility, but not too much, the 205 wasnt "that" Raw, i.e. it wasnt a track car on bone hard suspension.

I think it would be very easy to Surpass the 205 with a modern-ish hatch a few quid and some sympathetic mods and setup.

Personally, though I liked the 205 and drove a fair few I do think they are perhaps a bit over eulogised, a good little hatch but people talk like even a manky 1.1 GL version is some work of genius, I had one, it wasnt, the legendary handling was not present and teamed with the rattliest engine sourced from the sixties, the best 205 I drove was the XS a chap at college had, we swapped for a drive, he took my MK1 Golf GTi and I had his, that I thought was the pick of the bunch, perhaps it was expectations, expected it to be gutless next to my Golf, it didnt feel that much slower considering.

If you cant afford a 205 GTi, get looking for whatever AX GT you can find, they were a laugh and arent silly money yet.

[k-ink]

Likewise a 106 Quicksilver is also a hoot and cheap as chips with no GTi or Rallye badge to pay for.

[s m]

rallycross said:

In the last 10 years - so post 2006 reg there is not much that comes close to how the 205's felt, everything is too heavy, too refined.

Surprisingly a base model 2007 onwards facelift Mini Cooper 1.6 with small wheels (15 inch 175/60/15's - most unfashionable) gives a lot of the fun my old 205 1600 gave me, with 120 bhp, not too much grip, pin sharp steering, can be thown into the bends/roundabouts with great results, the last one I drove even had quite a nice throaty induction roar on full throttle.

Swift 1.6 16v Sport is quite good to thrash down a B road with stiff suspension and a revy 120 bhp enigne, feels light and chuckable but its ruined by the silly high driving position (seats) and high roofline (for people with top hats?) and rock hard suspension - they could learn a thing or two from how Peugeot set up their suspension on 205/309/306/106.

Same thoughts as me but I suggested the earlier version

I was a bit disappointed in the Swift to be honest after reading reviews and then trying a demo - still a good car though

[gweaver]

rallycross said:

Swift 1.6 16v Sport is quite good to thrash down a B road with stiff suspension and a revy 120 bhp enigne, feels light and chuckable but its ruined by the silly high driving position (seats) and high roofline (for people with top hats?) and rock hard suspension - they could learn a thing or two from how Peugeot set up their suspension on 205/309/306/106.

The current Swift Sport (introduced 2011) has much more compliant suspension and a bit more power. According to Autocar it has a very similar power (134bhp) to weight (1045kg) ratio to the 205 - it's lighter than most modern stuff. Unfortunately the brakes are over servoed and the DBW "rev hang" is annoying (could be solved by ECU chip).

Otherwise I don't have much to add to this thread. Renault Twingo 133, Clio 1*2 and Suzuki Ignis or Swift are the obvious answers to your question.
If no modern hatch hits the spot, perhaps consider Caterham, Lotus etc?

[JonnyTenny]

Closest modern car? Probably a Fiesta ST, they get rated so highly. Bear in mind there are probably closer (older) options there, but this is for me the closest thing that is also a currently selling model. Even gets higher praise for being "fun" it seems than the new 208 GTi.

[J4CKO]

JonnyTenny said:

Closest modern car? Probably a Fiesta ST, they get rated so highly. Bear in mind there are probably closer (older) options there, but this is for me the closest thing that is also a currently selling model. Even gets higher praise for being "fun" it seems than the new 208 GTi.

Would love to drive a Fiesta ST back to back with a 205 1.9, I cant imagine many would say the 205 is the better driving car of the two really.

[ajh38]

The 205 is a fun car. I've got one in what I like to think is pretty good order but it's no way an every day car any more. Sure it can be done but for every day life modern cars with all their conveniences (and safety features) are far more pleasant for most of your pottering about. It's a compromise. In general you give up the rawness that cars of the past offered.

I've always been interested in this; http://www.c1gti.co.uk/

I would also like to see the 110 PSA engine in the 108.

[Trophy Husband]

rare6499 said:

SidewaysSi said:

These are nothing near as raw or fun as a 205.

The 172 Cup was pretty damn raw even for its time, what with the lack of ABS and the thinner glass, they are about as close to the character of the 205 as you will get.

I echo this. I bought a 172 cup new in 2003 and put 157k on it over the next 5 years. I also had a 1.9 205 GTi in 1993. Straight away the cup reminded me of the GTi in it's rawness. Steering feel were very similar- both skittish but workable. If the 205 differs then it would be on the ragged edge where it was less forgiving than the cup but that's only on the ragged edge. I miss them both. I have a 182 Trophy under wraps but that is a totally different beast even though it's origins lie in a similar place. Light, fast, fun.

[Johnniem]

Cayman

[J4CKO]

ajh38 said:

The 205 is a fun car. I've got one in what I like to think is pretty good order but it's no way an every day car any more. Sure it can be done but for every day life modern cars with all their conveniences (and safety features) are far more pleasant for most of your pottering about. It's a compromise. In general you give up the rawness that cars of the past offered.

I've always been interested in this; http://www.c1gti.co.uk/

I would also like to see the 110 PSA engine in the 108.

Always said it is a missed trick not having a C1/Aygo/107 tepid hatch, could be good fun, we have a C1 and with a few tweak it would be great fun, as it is the crap seats and daft gearing hamper it as standard, another 40 bhp would do power wise. Doesnt help that next doors builders seem to have clouted the roof on ours lumping stuff past it and didnt mention it, grr, was pristine.

[B'stard Child]

CHARLESBERG said:

Have you considered the VW Polo GTI (6N2 Model)? This is the 2000-2002ish version with a 1.6 n/a & 125bhp. I would have thought this could strike a balance between FWD fun and sensible speeds.

Not even close - unfortunately - I've own both a 205 GTI and a 6N2 Polo GTI

The chassis has little or no feedback and the steering is dull and lifeless - it's also quite a bit heavier

The engine is a little Gem (albeit slightly blunted by DBW throttle)

They do have a bit of a cult following in the VW circles but not as much as the Lupo GTi judging by the prices

[routari]

There's a well known roadster with an excellent chassis that you can balance and turn mid-corner with its very sensitive throttle. It also has famously great wheel feedback, and inspires huge confidence through the corners.
It has about the same power-to-weight, but with rear drive, an LSD and superior weight distribution and suspension configuration. It almost feels like trolling or a tired meme to suggest it, but after checking some dedicated 205 GTI forums in the UK and AUS, the people that own both on there seem to compare them very favourably to each other, with the 205 being more raw, and the roadster being more precise.
My own car is always a step into the unknown somewhat, with me inching up to the limit. In my experience driving a very lightly fettled roadster of the type I'm describing, it's so easy to find the limit, and although it's a slower car, I probably took some corners faster, just with how much feedback there was, and how much confidence the car gives you.


They're not for everyone, and also less practical than a 205 GTI, but you already know what car is being described, and the things you highlighted in the OP didn't mention practicality.

Sorry.