Why you should give cyclists a wide berth when passing.
Discussion
jamieduff1981 said:
That's very similar to my locality and to be fair, most cyclists (and a lot of horse riders - and farm equipment for that matter) using the roads to get anywhere will pull over to let motorised vehicles pass if they're aware that they're getting in other peoples' way. It's not a big problem. A friendly smile & wave and everyones' happy and on their respective ways. That goes for car drivers pulling over too particularly for goods vehicles. Generally there's an unspoken understanding that whoever has the most suitable mount does the pulling over - if I'm out in the Cerbera then someone in a Discovery will pull off onto the verge. If I come across a little hatchback when I'm out in my Ranger, I'll drive off the tarmac to let them through.
Its the exact same where I am, the little back roads require road users to work together and in general tend to make everyone just that little bit politer. I always chuck my shogun into the ditch for oncoming because as you say its the most capable vehicle, I know the pain of having to ditch a little hot hatch and having a right pain trying to get it moving again.And the vast majority of cyclicsts will pull in pretty quickly to let you by too on roads like that, in towns motorists and cyclists are all far more aggresive. And you never tend to actually see the 'friendly' cyclists since they are safely pottering about on the shared cycle lane, its only the dicks who cycle along the road next to the empty lane.
Although the most amusing experience ive had on a little lane like that was with my pal in his mx5 with the top down early on this summer. Pulled in to a passing place for a big pickup, it drives past with... literally a million bloody sheep running along behind it, they all started poking there heads into the mx5 eventually a farmer on a quad at the back of the line went past howling with laughter about how his sheep love sportscars. I figured there was a shearing/hair dressing joke in there somewhere
Storer said:
In this part of the country there has been £ millions spent on dedicated cycle paths beside main roads. Yet it is still necessary for 'speedy cyclists' to ride on the road beside them.
Drivers pay way more in taxes/duty than is used to build or maintain the roads. Cyclists pay nowt to use them (please don't say you have a car so pay your share - you pay to drive your car).
Please demonstrate how you pay to drive your car. Drivers pay way more in taxes/duty than is used to build or maintain the roads. Cyclists pay nowt to use them (please don't say you have a car so pay your share - you pay to drive your car).
Please explain the need for all that additional regulation.
GetCarter said:
Just to explain my point.
I live on this road - that is this wide:
So I cannot possibly obey that 'rule' (for many, many miles).
I am a cyclist and that pisses me off, I hate being held up for no reason, I have a small, bar end mirror so I can spot cars coming up if I cant hear them, I then make an effort to get in, and if needs be stop to let the car through, I dont want it behind me, driver getting irate, I dont want to hold them up and when I do move over it is nice to get a hand raised or a cheery beep because you just known they have thought "Damn, I am going to be stuck behind this bloody cyclist for ages" and lo and behold it makes an effort to get out of the way, maybe they arent all I live on this road - that is this wide:
So I cannot possibly obey that 'rule' (for many, many miles).
s hell bent on holding me up !Some do seem to be oblivious or doing it on purpose, I just wait for them, I have found myself getting agitated in the past but I know that it wont be ages, the opportunity will arise to pass sooner than expected, not worth the rise in blood pressure or doing something rash in a panic to get past or to teach them a lesson.
I have seen drivers do some stupid stuff and get really aggressive with cyclists, then stop in a massive queue of cars, happy as anything for much longer.
I can recall being taught to give cyclists as much room as a car when passing and it's always struck. Don't get me wrong some of the cyclists I see, especially round the city put themselves in positions where you couldn't overtake them safely, between buses up the inside of HGVs etc.
But if there option is there to pass and give them space I will. Last thing I want is a cyclists shaped dent in my car and I suppose I'd feel a bit guilty splattering someone as well.
Thing is people are impatient, it's why cyclists put themselves in stupid predicaments (sometimes) and it's how impatient drivers are to get round them at other times. My mrs takes a fairly narrow lane to work, can fit two cars down it but it's winding and if you're behind a cyclist you have to stay behind them for a while. Exactly what she did and when the opportunity came to pass him, she gave plenty of space. Didn't stop her being tailgated by the Golf driver the entire time and him then trying to overtake her as she goes round the cyclist.
People's impatience out weighs their common sense more often than not.
But if there option is there to pass and give them space I will. Last thing I want is a cyclists shaped dent in my car and I suppose I'd feel a bit guilty splattering someone as well.
Thing is people are impatient, it's why cyclists put themselves in stupid predicaments (sometimes) and it's how impatient drivers are to get round them at other times. My mrs takes a fairly narrow lane to work, can fit two cars down it but it's winding and if you're behind a cyclist you have to stay behind them for a while. Exactly what she did and when the opportunity came to pass him, she gave plenty of space. Didn't stop her being tailgated by the Golf driver the entire time and him then trying to overtake her as she goes round the cyclist.
People's impatience out weighs their common sense more often than not.
Storer said:
In this part of the country there has been £ millions spent on dedicated cycle paths beside main roads. Yet it is still necessary for 'speedy cyclists' to ride on the road beside them.
Drivers pay way more in taxes/duty than is used to build or maintain the roads. Cyclists pay nowt to use them (please don't say you have a car so pay your share - you pay to drive your car).
If there is a specifically built cycleway then it should be a requirement that all cyclists use it. It should also have a speed limit - say 15mph - (5x walking pace seems enough). There is no need for a cyclist to go faster. They are not racing after all, as that is illegal on the public highway!
If cyclist want to go faster then rent a race track, just like car drivers do.
A bicycle is the only vehicle you can use on the public highway with no training or licence AFAIK (a horse is not a vehicle, in case you hadn't noticed!).
It's a rare talent to be able to type that many words in a single post and get pretty much every single one of them wrong.Drivers pay way more in taxes/duty than is used to build or maintain the roads. Cyclists pay nowt to use them (please don't say you have a car so pay your share - you pay to drive your car).
If there is a specifically built cycleway then it should be a requirement that all cyclists use it. It should also have a speed limit - say 15mph - (5x walking pace seems enough). There is no need for a cyclist to go faster. They are not racing after all, as that is illegal on the public highway!
If cyclist want to go faster then rent a race track, just like car drivers do.
A bicycle is the only vehicle you can use on the public highway with no training or licence AFAIK (a horse is not a vehicle, in case you hadn't noticed!).
Edited by Antony Moxey on Monday 22 August 11:59
heebeegeetee said:
Storer said:
In this part of the country there has been £ millions spent on dedicated cycle paths beside main roads. Yet it is still necessary for 'speedy cyclists' to ride on the road beside them.
Drivers pay way more in taxes/duty than is used to build or maintain the roads. Cyclists pay nowt to use them (please don't say you have a car so pay your share - you pay to drive your car).
Please demonstrate how you pay to drive your car. Drivers pay way more in taxes/duty than is used to build or maintain the roads. Cyclists pay nowt to use them (please don't say you have a car so pay your share - you pay to drive your car).
Please explain the need for all that additional regulation.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-f...
By law introduced by UK government.
Jagmanv12 said:
Please demonstrate how you pay to drive your car.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-f...
By law introduced by UK government.
That's all paid before the car is driven. The tax on the fuel is paid before it is used. The majority of cyclists are drivers so they will have already paid the same tax pro rata as Mr Storer, whom I responded to. And no, you don't need to pay car tax for bicycles.https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-f...
By law introduced by UK government.
Car tax is voluntary too, as there is a wide choice of cars that levy zero or near-to-zero car tax.
Apart from toll roads it's not possible to pay tax to drive. It's also not possible to pay tax for roads, however the more tax overall that you pay, the more you contribute to the pot from which funding for roads is taken.
I don't think drivers will ever get it into their heads that riding a bike makes next-to-f
k-all difference to the amount of tax one pays overall. If it did, I'm sure we'd all be on bikes.Jodyone said:
It feels as if the answer to your question is in my quoted comment. Still, I'll elaborate: a group of bike riders might easily be ten or so. Can you envisage how easy it is for ten cyclists to pull over on a narrow road uphill in synchrony, every time a car wishes to pass? It surely doesn't take much imagination to see that it's way more difficult than for an individual car to pull in to an appropriate space in a similar scenario.
Even it they could, it'd be a constantly repeating event, on some of the hills in the lake district and so on that are cherished routes for bike riders and car drivers alike. Like I said: mutual tolerance.
I live in Cornwall and spend half my driving time stuck behind tractors. They're also slower than me on a bike (unless uphill), and I know from experience that I'm vastly more delayed by tractors than cyclists, whatever I'm using. I can get irritated by them, sure, but usually I just accept it - they have a perfectly good reason to be there - and listen to the radio. The ratio must be similar for others hereabouts- yet, I rarely hear other people ranting aggressively about tractors: but cyclists! Oh, they're the devil incarnate. I think it's a tribal objection rather than a pragmatic one.
Cycle on a more suitable road if having such a large group is such an issue?Even it they could, it'd be a constantly repeating event, on some of the hills in the lake district and so on that are cherished routes for bike riders and car drivers alike. Like I said: mutual tolerance.
I live in Cornwall and spend half my driving time stuck behind tractors. They're also slower than me on a bike (unless uphill), and I know from experience that I'm vastly more delayed by tractors than cyclists, whatever I'm using. I can get irritated by them, sure, but usually I just accept it - they have a perfectly good reason to be there - and listen to the radio. The ratio must be similar for others hereabouts- yet, I rarely hear other people ranting aggressively about tractors: but cyclists! Oh, they're the devil incarnate. I think it's a tribal objection rather than a pragmatic one.
I can see where you are coming from regarding tractors and cyclists, the difference is, the tractor generally needs to use that road, as it's performing a job that helps keep the nation going.
A bunch of hobby cyclists doesn't really fit any purpose except being out and about for their own entertainment.
There are things I find entertaining that others frown upon, why should cyclists that are annoying (I'm not saying all) not also be frowned upon when they are affecting others negatively?
If I want to drive my car fast, legally, I have to take it to the track. So why can't cyclists go to a quiet road with no vehicle access or a velodrome?
In my eyes, riding something that can only do around 30% of the NSL on an NSL road is just crazy and dangerous for no good reason.
I used to have a moped at 16 and used to use fast roads regularly. With a top speed of 30mph on an NSL road with a truck passing it was scary. I don't see why someone would want to be in that scenario out of choice and on something much more unstable and slower.
It all comes down to being selfish at the end of the day. I've made this point to cyclists in person and they have called me out for being selfish because we all share the road. But is it not also selfish to expect me to have to slow down to a crawl and wait, just because you have some little fantasy that you are Bradley Wiggins?
Saw a youtube video of a cyclist having a bit of a conflict with a driver because the cyclist was in the middle of the road doing half the limit. He then turned to the driver and said "you're angry at me because I care about the environment?" the logic of that made me laugh. He might not be directly polluting, but surely having a line of traffic being held up and not running at it's most efficient must be causing more emissions than if he just drove?
I knew my post would annoy the byciclist brigade.
They think they have the right to do what they want, especially if they are in a group.
If you are a single cyclist, or especially a child I will give you yards of room and courtesy. If you are in a group, especially lycra clad, I give the barest minimum of room.
The trio in the above picture would get a long blast of the horn and then overtaken, especially if I lived on that road.
I struggle to understand why cyclist are allowed to 'race' on the public highway when no other vehicle is allowed to. Rent a track!
Oh, and for the chap that said he has 3 cars he taxes. Well I tax 9, so I win!
They think they have the right to do what they want, especially if they are in a group.
If you are a single cyclist, or especially a child I will give you yards of room and courtesy. If you are in a group, especially lycra clad, I give the barest minimum of room.
The trio in the above picture would get a long blast of the horn and then overtaken, especially if I lived on that road.
I struggle to understand why cyclist are allowed to 'race' on the public highway when no other vehicle is allowed to. Rent a track!
Oh, and for the chap that said he has 3 cars he taxes. Well I tax 9, so I win!
spookly said:
Jodyone said:
I live in Cornwall and spend half my driving time stuck behind tractors. They're also slower than me on a bike (unless uphill), and I know from experience that I'm vastly more delayed by tractors than cyclists, whatever I'm using. I can get irritated by them, sure, but usually I just accept it - they have a perfectly good reason to be there - and listen to the radio. The ratio must be similar for others hereabouts- yet, I rarely hear other people ranting aggressively about tractors: but cyclists! Oh, they're the devil incarnate. I think it's a tribal objection rather than a pragmatic one.
So you don't understand why people get annoyed with tractors but not cyclists..... I bolded the bit where you hit the nail on the head.The reason cyclists are more annoying - they are holding us all up for fun.
Tractors, HGVs, Plant equipment etc.... they are all holding us up because they have a job to do. Nobody is taking their tractor out for a joyride down the A38.
Yes, I realise some people also take their cars and motorbikes out for fun. I'd get just as annoyed if a car or motorbike was going 10mph up a hill and refused to let traffic past. But in reality, that rarely happens. Even the slowest old Doris will not hold you up as much as a cyclist.
I've also had lots of tractors stop to let traffic pass if they aren't going a short distance. I have yet to see a cyclist stop to let traffic past.
FWIW, I'd move out of your way if I was riding for fun (or for any other reason) and you were stuck behind me in a car. There are plenty of other people who'd do the same.
Edited by Jodyone on Monday 22 August 22:08
Storer said:
I struggle to understand why cyclist are allowed to 'race' on the public highway when no other vehicle is allowed to. Rent a track!
Not sure about your rationale here - "when no other vehicle is allowed to"... but I agree with the point. No one should be able to race on a road on which the general public are going about their day-to-day business. 'Racing' implies an urge to reach a destination with extra speed. If you're concentrating more on going faster, then you'll be concentrating less on safety. I live near the cycling mecca of the UK. Cambridge!
We get regular bicycle road races here, where other road users are supposed to 'beware' of the racers and allow them to race (or so the organisers signs say)!
As far as I am aware this is actually illegal and I would love to see a copy of the organisers insurance certificate.
If we hold a car club meeting (static) on my local village green we need insurance cover to do so. Minimal risk to anyone but cover required.
I suspect very few, if any, of the cyclists who race have any insurance cover and if they do it will almost certainly exclude 'racing' on the public highway.
How can it be right to allow road racing of bicycles to take place, and then put the onus on a car driver to avoid any accident caused by the cyclist?
Hire a race track.
We get regular bicycle road races here, where other road users are supposed to 'beware' of the racers and allow them to race (or so the organisers signs say)!
As far as I am aware this is actually illegal and I would love to see a copy of the organisers insurance certificate.
If we hold a car club meeting (static) on my local village green we need insurance cover to do so. Minimal risk to anyone but cover required.
I suspect very few, if any, of the cyclists who race have any insurance cover and if they do it will almost certainly exclude 'racing' on the public highway.
How can it be right to allow road racing of bicycles to take place, and then put the onus on a car driver to avoid any accident caused by the cyclist?
Hire a race track.
Storer said:
I knew my post would annoy the byciclist brigade.
They think they have the right to do what they want, especially if they are in a group.
If you are a single cyclist, or especially a child I will give you yards of room and courtesy. If you are in a group, especially lycra clad, I give the barest minimum of room.
The trio in the above picture would get a long blast of the horn and then overtaken, especially if I lived on that road.
I struggle to understand why cyclist are allowed to 'race' on the public highway when no other vehicle is allowed to. Rent a track!
Oh, and for the chap that said he has 3 cars he taxes. Well I tax 9, so I win!
The gift that just keeps giving.They think they have the right to do what they want, especially if they are in a group.
If you are a single cyclist, or especially a child I will give you yards of room and courtesy. If you are in a group, especially lycra clad, I give the barest minimum of room.
The trio in the above picture would get a long blast of the horn and then overtaken, especially if I lived on that road.
I struggle to understand why cyclist are allowed to 'race' on the public highway when no other vehicle is allowed to. Rent a track!
Oh, and for the chap that said he has 3 cars he taxes. Well I tax 9, so I win!
Storer said:
If you are in a group, especially lycra clad, I give the barest minimum of room.
What's the point of doing this? I experience these 'punishment passes' every now and then on my bike in London and I don't get it. It doesn't make your day any easier and it has the potential to make any 'wobble' by me into a more serious incident - although I accept that it wouldn't strictly be your fault.I don't see how it achieves anything except antagonise the cyclists in question and make them less likely to be suitably considerate in future.
Storer said:
I live near the cycling mecca of the UK. Cambridge!
We get regular bicycle road races here, where other road users are supposed to 'beware' of the racers and allow them to race (or so the organisers signs say)!
As far as I am aware this is actually illegal and I would love to see a copy of the organisers insurance certificate.
If we hold a car club meeting (static) on my local village green we need insurance cover to do so. Minimal risk to anyone but cover required.
I suspect very few, if any, of the cyclists who race have any insurance cover and if they do it will almost certainly exclude 'racing' on the public highway.
How can it be right to allow road racing of bicycles to take place, and then put the onus on a car driver to avoid any accident caused by the cyclist?
Hire a race track.
Why don't you squirt your windscreen wipers when passing just to finish them off? We get regular bicycle road races here, where other road users are supposed to 'beware' of the racers and allow them to race (or so the organisers signs say)!
As far as I am aware this is actually illegal and I would love to see a copy of the organisers insurance certificate.
If we hold a car club meeting (static) on my local village green we need insurance cover to do so. Minimal risk to anyone but cover required.
I suspect very few, if any, of the cyclists who race have any insurance cover and if they do it will almost certainly exclude 'racing' on the public highway.
How can it be right to allow road racing of bicycles to take place, and then put the onus on a car driver to avoid any accident caused by the cyclist?
Hire a race track.
Storer said:
I live near the cycling mecca of the UK. Cambridge!
We get regular bicycle road races here, where other road users are supposed to 'beware' of the racers and allow them to race (or so the organisers signs say)!
As far as I am aware this is actually illegal and I would love to see a copy of the organisers insurance certificate.
If we hold a car club meeting (static) on my local village green we need insurance cover to do so. Minimal risk to anyone but cover required.
I suspect very few, if any, of the cyclists who race have any insurance cover and if they do it will almost certainly exclude 'racing' on the public highway.
How can it be right to allow road racing of bicycles to take place, and then put the onus on a car driver to avoid any accident caused by the cyclist?
Hire a race track.
Because you're misinterpreting what is meant by a "race". It's not like NASCAR or something. It's usually just that the riders are timed and riding against the clock, rather than directly against each other. There is no expectation that participants should do anything other than obey rules of the road, and given that even the fittest rider is probably not going to be averaging more than 20MPH, it means that the participants are very unlikely to be breaking any speed limits. The fact that there are signs telling you to beware of "racers" is nothing more than a courtesy to warn you that there may be a higher than average number of cyclists on the road - there is no request for you to oblige cyclists anymore than you should do usually under the highway code. So it's perfectly possible for a cycle "race" to be held on the roads and remain well within the bounds of the law.We get regular bicycle road races here, where other road users are supposed to 'beware' of the racers and allow them to race (or so the organisers signs say)!
As far as I am aware this is actually illegal and I would love to see a copy of the organisers insurance certificate.
If we hold a car club meeting (static) on my local village green we need insurance cover to do so. Minimal risk to anyone but cover required.
I suspect very few, if any, of the cyclists who race have any insurance cover and if they do it will almost certainly exclude 'racing' on the public highway.
How can it be right to allow road racing of bicycles to take place, and then put the onus on a car driver to avoid any accident caused by the cyclist?
Hire a race track.
The thing is, I suspect you know all this. But like a lot of car drivers, you just don't like cyclists very much because they sometimes hold you up, so you try and find any sort of justification for your prejudices, claiming that their actions are somehow illegal, or that they don't pay road tax, or any other reason you can think up on the spot.
It's quite bizarre, because I bet you don't get so distraught about other road users who slow you down. Horses and pedestrians are, in my experience, far more obstructive when encountered on the roads than cyclists, yet I bet the same people who are going on about how they had to slow down for a few seconds to allow for a cyclist won't make any complaint about those. Would you be complaining about people running on rural roads in an organised event where there were signs to warn you about it?
Ironically, if some of your other comments about how you treat some cyclists with less respect based purely on them being grouped and wearing a certain attire are to be believed, then the only person who doesn't deserve to be on the road is you. I would have expected someone with the nous to be a company director and to own a garage like yours to have a much more mature attitude to driving on the public highway and talking about giving them the "barest minimum of room" only proves what a pathetic prejudiced individual you are. Grow up.
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