RE: Lotus Evora 400: even lighter, even dearer

[Ozzie Osmond]

Lotuslover669 said:

tread lightly there Ozzie,

Don't fret. Some of the Lotus lads do understand the subject, as evidenced by Kambites. We're all mid-engine fans together! I always rather liked Toyota's MR2 yet somehow the Mk3 got a bit too soft to attract buyers. [Apologies for rambling OT in an Evora thread...]

[CABC]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Lotuslover669 said:

tread lightly there Ozzie,

Don't fret. Some of the Lotus lads do understand the subject, as evidenced by Kambites. We're all mid-engine fans together! I always rather liked Toyota's MR2 yet somehow the Mk3 got a bit too soft to attract buyers. [Apologies for rambling OT in an Evora thread...]

he's grooming you....

[Lotuslover669]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Don't fret. Some of the Lotus lads do understand the subject, as evidenced by Kambites. We're all mid-engine fans together! I always rather liked Toyota's MR2 yet somehow the Mk3 got a bit too soft to attract buyers. [Apologies for rambling OT in an Evora thread...]

ah yes, but beware of the rabid ones tho.

[Tuna]

Lotuslover669 said:

dear Tuna, you are falling into the nationalism trap that chriss harris was banned by Lotus for describing, plz dont do that. It is always nice to cheer for the underdog i agree, but to cloud ones judgement based on patriotism for the mother nation would open a can of worms....if that is the case ask yourself why would you ever rely on the opinion of a british journalist for any british brand, or a german one for any german brand or a japanese for any japanese brand etc etc ? everyone will be cheering for his own country/brand and then we are all back in the 80's again. not a great time for cars...

Edited by Lotuslover669 on Saturday 20th August 05:33

You're really, really good at jumping to the wrong conclusions aren't you? My point was that reading reviews in a country that has no 'skin in the game' (such as the US), the Evora 400 is getting some parts of the motoring press quite excited. It's seen as a very credible competitor to Porsche, and a serious drivers car. Yet almost all of the UK motoring press have become pretty dismissive of Lotus. Which got the most mentions in the last series of Top Gear?

When it comes to options, Lotus have always made a base spec car that you wouldn't be ashamed to be seen in, and rarely offered the short of ridiculous options list that some of their competitors do. Yet now that they offer a decent upgrade list, an article like this comes across as willfully ignorant of the market that the car is in.

So no, I'm not calling for patriotism. I'm saying that the UK press (including Chris Harris) have gone too far far the other way and are more than happy to swallow the marketing budgets of some big brands in return for a strange blindness their foibles. I'd much rather see an objective comparison than journalists drooling over a brand name.

[CABC]

nearly a day has passed since your early morning trolling....
even the top thread has yours as the penultimate post.

[peter450]

CABC said:

nearly a day has passed since your early morning trolling....
even the top thread has yours as the penultimate post.

Life must be so fun in the Middle East

[Impasse]

CABC said:

nearly a day has passed since your early morning trolling....
even the top thread has yours as the penultimate post.

What a narcissistic, obsessive nugget!

[Oilchange]

I wonder if he is the [Lotus] anti-marketing/advertising executive employed by the competition to sow discontent and attract sales elsewhere...

btw a new 400/410 is top of my Lottery list

[Lotuslover669]

@Impasse , @cabc @peter

what the hell is your problem? just because i decided to be active on this forum does not mean i am trolling, you guys have some SERIOUS issues, each post in that pic has its own merit, if you want to discuss the posts i made do so in the respective thread. and stop this childish crap.

regards,



PS: if you think I am trolling please post the relevent post where you think i trolled.

[Oilchange]

trolling? maybe/maybe not but you certainly have an agenda when it comes to the Evora. You must see this?

[Impasse]

And here are the "Ooh you bully" waterworks. Classic narcissistic behaviour.

[Magicsmurf]

I'd still like to see a picture of this Porsche

Come on let's have a look at the more superior and cheaper car

[CountZero23]

Impasse said:

CABC said:

nearly a day has passed since your early morning trolling....
even the top thread has yours as the penultimate post.

What a narcissistic, obsessive nugget!

What a strange and angry little man.

Tone of the article was sneering and unpleasant.

Anyway, some premium options on the Evora is no bad thing. Weight losses are minimal but then the law of diminishing returns apply.

I'd like to see Lotus tackle the other side of the price point with a cheaper more stripped down alternative model with weight savings through less toys as they did with the GT3 when the V8 Esprit came out.

[Shnozz]

Every Lotus subject appears to have turned very odd in 24 hours.

[CountZero23]

Lotuslover669 said:

Shnozz said:

Every Lotus subject appears to have turned very odd in 24 hours.

not really, only stated some opinions about the evora, apparently that is an automatic troll categorization.

'some' opinions? Half the thread has been taken up you getting up peoples noses and your negative crap was all over the first page of the Evora section

[rtz62]

Lotuslover669, you made reference to yourself quite early on in this thread about being 'a driver and a dealer' (or vice versa).
There are obviously some who 'know' you on here, under Koko or other monikers, but I'm just a sad retired '5-0', and have other things to do than trawl t'internet to find out about folk and there background on forums.
May I politley ask, are you in fact a dealer, and if so are you a private person buying and selling, or a small independent dealer?
I ask, as your views are quite polarised (no, I'm not trying to start an arguement), and I can't believe for one minute that you ate a specialist in one mar or another, although you may of course be a rival main dealer (??).
Please note, this is asked politely, and if you don't wish to furnish those details, I respect your privacy.

[chrispj]

CountZero23 said:

Tone of the article was sneering and unpleasant.

For balance, on Monday I'd like PH to post a critical article about how Porsche charge a grand for a couple of decorative strips of carbon on the dash, with some hyperbolic speculation about how much they might charge if they scaled that up to a whole roof! Possibly with a comment about how an Evora with half the carbon pack is still cheaper than an equivalently specced 911? Or perhaps just an addendum to the original piece with prices of how much equivalent sports car manufacturers charge for similar options?

How about it @Richardaucock? Alternatively are you willing to say with your hand on your heart you would have written a piece with that tone about any of the major brands?

[Ozzie Osmond]

chrispj said:

For balance, on Monday I'd like PH to post a critical article about how Porsche charge a grand for a couple of decorative strips of carbon on the dash, with some hyperbolic speculation about how much they might charge if they scaled that up to a whole roof!

The real question is how Porsche get customers queuing up to pay £100,000 for a fancy version of their £40,000 Boxster. They can and they do. It doesn't alter the fact that if another manufacturer's car struggled for sales at £55k adding some horsepower and sticking a £73k price tag on it won't necessarily help.

Compare and contrast the Noble M600. They're struggling to sell any at £200k-£250k. If they dropped the price to £150k would they suddenly be flooded with orders? I really don't think so.

It's all about having a product that customers actually want to buy.

[jayemm89]

Lotus' biggest problem with the Evora.... no scratch that, Lotus biggest problem is their marketing - or lack thereof. The original Evora won FIVE car of the year awards (possibly more), was extremely well received, but unfortunately a lot happened with the company that meant it never quite took off. The 400 is a fairly different car and to be honest deserves to be priced higher than the original.

People moan about Lotus charging £70k for it... but we live in a world where you can spend £40k on a Golf, £50k on an A-Class or £115k on a non "turbo"/GT 911

[chrispj]

Ozzie Osmond said:

The real question is how Porsche get customers queuing up to pay £100,000 for a fancy version of their £40,000 Boxster. They can and they do. It doesn't alter the fact that if another manufacturer's car struggled for sales at £55k adding some horsepower and sticking a £73k price tag on it won't necessarily help.

Compare and contrast the Noble M600. They're struggling to sell any at £200k-£250k. If they dropped the price to £150k would they suddenly be flooded with orders? I really don't think so.

It's all about having a product that customers actually want to buy.

That's fair enough and Lotus's shortcomings have been covered enough times and are probably more to do with the limited support network and lack of brand awareness than the actual cars they produce. I'm just riled right now by the blatant double standards and lack of objectivity in parts of the automotive media in general and this article in particular. PH wouldn't have dared take the tone that they did if the product was coming from part of the almighty VAG group or indeed any manufacturer that has an actual marketing budget. I'd suggest if the article had been produced for say BMW, Mercedes, Porsche or more or less anyone else then the editor would have sent it back with instructions to re-write it pronto.