RE: Lotus Evora 400: even lighter, even dearer
Discussion
richardaucock said:
Turquoise said:
Ignoring the options pricing squabbles, I'm amazed a Porsche 911 Carrera S is only 45kg heavier. The Porsche is an all metal body isn't it? What's the Evora body made of? I assumed some sorted plastic/composite. Am I wrong?
Yup, I did triple-check it. Unladen weight, Evora: 1,395kg. Unladen weight, 991 S: 1,440kg. Both manual (auto Evora S is 1,407kg vs 1,460kg for 991 S PDK).richardaucock said:
10% discount at dealers is interesting - that's a heck of a lot off a premium product!
Lotus does do some tempting finance packages: restricted sales during the recession kept the used parc tight, they told me a few years back, so dealers were able to basically swap Evora a few years old for brand new ones 'for free' - that's how good the RVs were. Tempting!
Is it? I'm not in the market for a 911 but once I've optioned my S up to over 100k(which is fLotus does do some tempting finance packages: restricted sales during the recession kept the used parc tight, they told me a few years back, so dealers were able to basically swap Evora a few years old for brand new ones 'for free' - that's how good the RVs were. Tempting!
king ludicrous for a cooking 911) I would want a good few k off the list price just to offset the epic depreciation.Accepting that my V6 exige has a one off paint job and other unnecessary ornamentation which one doesn't have to spec, I got somewhere close to 10% off the list price when I ordered it. Plus 50/50. And if I had a spare 25k kicking around, I would order a 400 evora as my daily on 50/50 and get rid of my current daily - the exige isn't going anywhere! If you (or anyone who is vaguely thinking of buying a 911 or other car in this budget) hasn't driven a 400 yet, I would urge you to do so. It's properly sorted. Hilariously loud, amazing to drive, all the kit you would expect, fantastic ride and you can fit the kids in the back. If they are primary school age. Just.
Gandahar said:
richardaucock said:
Turquoise said:
Ignoring the options pricing squabbles, I'm amazed a Porsche 911 Carrera S is only 45kg heavier. The Porsche is an all metal body isn't it? What's the Evora body made of? I assumed some sorted plastic/composite. Am I wrong?
Yup, I did triple-check it. Unladen weight, Evora: 1,395kg. Unladen weight, 991 S: 1,440kg. Both manual (auto Evora S is 1,407kg vs 1,460kg for 991 S PDK).Turquoise said:
Ignoring the options pricing squabbles, I'm amazed a Porsche 911 Carrera S is only 45kg heavier. The Porsche is an all metal body isn't it? What's the Evora body made of? I assumed some sorted plastic/composite. Am I wrong?
This is all an opinion rather than fact....I think the Evora weight comes from the following:
The composite (sounds better than GRP) body is actually pretty heavy as they go quite dense and thick to give it the panel stiffness & quality that you'd accept in a fairly expensive road car. To go lightweight and retain toughness and stiffness is Very Expensive (in either tooling or parts - or both)
Engine and transmission are not from a car where weight was a priority (will be quite heavy - even an Exige is circa 1150/1200Kg)
Interior and exterior trim is made in low volume methods that are pretty heavy. I think trimming a car to the standards of an Evora carries a large weight penalty if you can't afford certain material and tool combinations.
Bottom line is it's very hard for a low volume manufacturer to comply with all legislations and customer wants for comfort etc and still be light weight - they simply don't have the resources to use the materials / techniques and tools that the likes of Porsche do.
It makes it all the more astounding that the Evora is such a wonderful car overall. It's a hell of an achievement.
gashead1105 said:
richardaucock said:
10% discount at dealers is interesting - that's a heck of a lot off a premium product!
Lotus does do some tempting finance packages: restricted sales during the recession kept the used parc tight, they told me a few years back, so dealers were able to basically swap Evora a few years old for brand new ones 'for free' - that's how good the RVs were. Tempting!
Is it? I'm not in the market for a 911 but once I've optioned my S up to over 100k(which is fLotus does do some tempting finance packages: restricted sales during the recession kept the used parc tight, they told me a few years back, so dealers were able to basically swap Evora a few years old for brand new ones 'for free' - that's how good the RVs were. Tempting!
king ludicrous for a cooking 911) I would want a good few k off the list price just to offset the epic depreciation.Accepting that my V6 exige has a one off paint job and other unnecessary ornamentation which one doesn't have to spec, I got somewhere close to 10% off the list price when I ordered it. Plus 50/50. And if I had a spare 25k kicking around, I would order a 400 evora as my daily on 50/50 and get rid of my current daily - the exige isn't going anywhere! If you (or anyone who is vaguely thinking of buying a 911 or other car in this budget) hasn't driven a 400 yet, I would urge you to do so. It's properly sorted. Hilariously loud, amazing to drive, all the kit you would expect, fantastic ride and you can fit the kids in the back. If they are primary school age. Just.
Turquoise said:
4 pot or no 4 pot, with an aluminium composite tub with a composite body compared to all metal conventional construction, I'd have expected the gap to be much bigger. At least 3 figures given the Porsches plusher cabin.
The MY12 onwards cars actually have a very plush interior (mines an MY11 which is pretty good with full leather interior - but even that weighs in close to 150kg when stripped out - 2kg here, 3kg there adds up) with sudetex coverings, leather seats, heated seats, subwoofers, amps etc...The weight comes from the supercharger plumbing and coolers too.
Edited by Havoc856 on Friday 19th August 17:00
douglasgdmw said:
Biggest surprise for me is that Lotus don't have a ceramics brake options, although an expensive option probably the best way to spend £5k to get even better handling.
George
There's a reason a lot of manufacturers don't put them on their cars... Steels, are in the round, a hell of a lot better for 90% of the time and 90% of drivers. George
Pedal feel being one of them.
otolith said:
Honestly, Porsche have already long established that this market is populated by mugs with more money than sense, Lotus would be fools not to jump on the bandwagon.
Regrettably Lotus won't be making much profit from their fancy options list because they still haven't addressed the fundamental styling/packaging problems which prevent this car from selling. Maybe they could just sell the options as ornaments and forget about the car.Ozzie Osmond said:
Regrettably Lotus won't be making much profit from their fancy options list because they still haven't addressed the fundamental styling/packaging problems which prevent this car from selling. Maybe they could just sell the options as ornaments and forget about the car.
What packaging problems do you speak of? Have you driven one or spent considerable time in one? Massive boot space, rear bench for stashing bags, small people, dogs... lots of room for driver an passenger and none of which intrudes on the styling (i.e it looks like a 2 seater from the outside)????? One of the reasons i bought one over a 911 is because it is so practical yet so good looking compared the the bland 911 profile. ETA: Not meaning this as an attack - there are so few on the road that most people i meet haven't ever seen one let alone sat in one.
Edited by Havoc856 on Friday 19th August 21:48
I do find it slightly odd that people dislike the Evora's proportions yet seem to be generally happy with the 911 with it's comical wheelbase and enormously disproportionate arse. I know the 911 is like that for a good reason, but so is the rather heavy central section of the Evora. The Evora's proportions are certainly a little awkward (as indeed are those of all modern Lotus road cars) but the 911 is, at least to my eyes, an order of magnitude worse.
The Cayman/Boxster is arguably better looking but then it should be because the Evora and 911 both sacrifice styling for practicality the Cayman/Boxster platform doesn't attempt to match.
The Cayman/Boxster is arguably better looking but then it should be because the Evora and 911 both sacrifice styling for practicality the Cayman/Boxster platform doesn't attempt to match.
Edited by kambites on Friday 19th August 17:16
Lotuslover669 said:
Garbage vehicle, garbage company, go visit their official forums and try to complain about something or some quality issue and you will be immediately branded as a troll and banned, but the quality control is still piss poor, even the "loyal fans" fill pages and pages with their daily issues, maybe lotus is good purchase for a 3rd or 4th car but not a daily driver at all.
you cant shut me up here @bibs
lol... We have official forums???you cant shut me up here @bibs
Tbh owners forums are all the same - paint a virtually 90% negative image of the model you're buying.
Mines a daily.. I've had some issues.. but hey it's handbuilt and stuff went wrong just as much with my Focus RS Mk2...
I've only seen ACTUAL trolls banned from TLF. Recently a new Porsche owner who just proclaimed that the Evora was overpriced and wasn't as good as the car he's bought (looked like a cooking spec 911) despite not driving it and the fact that he'd outright argued with the dealer in a combative manner. He then went on the argue in a very combative and disregarding manner any researched and referenced fact TLF masses could highlight to him.
So in other words, stereotypical porker driver
i jest 
Edited by Havoc856 on Friday 19th August 18:16
Lotuslover669 said:
this article was already posted on their official (not official but everyone is on it) forums, the drums of war are beating, and the "loyalists" are marching, prepare dear article writing, you will be bashed and abused but please stick with your article, no amount of lotus fans can change the fact that their car IS NOT a ferrari nor a porsche. and that they are terribad.
as i said, the drums of war are beating
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/84199-e...
Have you linked the right thread? All i can see there is people discussing the weight of the carbon fibre, whether the images are shopped or not and general discussion....as i said, the drums of war are beating
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/84199-e...
Lotuslover669 said:
this article was already posted on their official (not official but everyone is on it) forums, the drums of war are beating, and the "loyalists" are marching, prepare dear article writing, you will be bashed and abused but please stick with your article, no amount of lotus fans can change the fact that their car IS NOT a ferrari nor a porsche. and that they are terribad.
as i said, the drums of war are beating
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/84199-e...
You sound like a Lotus driver has once set your Porsche ablaze. Thing is, it caught on fire all by itself. as i said, the drums of war are beating
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/84199-e...
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